We saw some nondescript police cruiser type car (I think it was a Grand Marquis) sitting on a dealer lot that was a flex fuel vehicle. Seeing the badge piqued my interest and I went to look at the window sticker. Sweet baby Jesus that thing was expensive! It was just over $55,000 if I recall correctly. Whoever is willing to pay $55k for that caliber of car is absolutely batshit insane. I could be wrong about that price, but I do know that it was definitely shockingly expensive for that car.

 

You keep bringing this up, but it is an entirely bogus argument. If we said this about every situation, then we would never learn from history. History tells us that we will adapt to the situations presented to us. That means that if gas prices continue to rise, we will adapt and find some way to compensate. History also tells us that having the government step in "do something" is not the answer.

You don't seem to be arguing in favor of anything in particular, you are just against whatever I have to say. What is your stance? I say let the market take care of high gas prices. You say...?

Again, it is completely idiotic to say that we have to sacrifice everything for the environment. We have to weigh the costs vs the benefits. For instance, the Kyoto Protocol, in the year that it has been enacted, has cost the world approximately $176 trillion. And what has it achieved? By 2050, global temperatures will be lowered by an undetectable 0.0018 degrees Celsius. Just another example of worthles environmental legislation that does nothing but cost money.

Wrong. Diesel IS an answer. Temporarily. While we are developing new techonologies, diesel engines are a technology we can use right now to increase gas mileage. It is not a long-term solution because it still uses petroleum-based fuel to run, but it IS a viable short-term solution.

How do you feel about catalytic converters, which actually increase the amount of greenhouse gases emitted by your car?

 

You know, it wasn't that long ago (less than 10 years ago), that 87 octane was less than a dollar a gallon. Or at least that's what it was in Baytown, TX.

So, I will ask the same tired question I always ask in oil threads. And no one will answer. But here it is anyway, sorry if I sound like a broken record.

"If gas prices are high because of oil company greed, then why were they so outrageously cheap a few years ago? Were oil companies generous then?"

Any answer to that one? Anybody?

:crickets chirping:

I remember putting in $1.37 low octane when I first got my RX-8. No way was I gonna use 93 at $1.67 are you kidding me? Ha ha. That wasn't quite three years ago; so what happened?

* The Iraq war. "Duh". Whether you support it or not, we shouldn't be surprised that it raised gas prices--after all, the same thing happened in 1991!

* The buildup to a potential Iran war, complete with rumors of bunker nuking. Whether you support it or not, we shouldn't be surprised that it raised gas prices--after all, the same thing happened in 1991!

* China and India. They are building up bigtime, and need commodities. It isn't just gasoline. It's steel too, and copper, and gold, and other stuff. I guess we need to investigate big steel while we're at it?

* No new refineries in 20+ years. This can't possibly help. Thanks, EPA.

* Dozens of different gas formulations for different regions. Thanks, EPA.

* Katrina. Are all the refineries back online? I haven't kept up with it.

* A dirty little secret: taxes aren't the only way we pay for our gigantic bloated pig of a federal government. Another way is to get the federal reserve to crank up the printing press (so to speak). Thus you get a housing bubble as well, due to the way the money creation process drives down the cost of a mortgage. The beauty of this method instead of taxes is, there isn't one person in 1,000 who knows what's going on. So people blame big oil, or capitalism, or ethnic minorities, or the weather--instead of government. Then when the politicians blame the scapegoats for high prices, they can get votes, more regulations, more funding, and more power.

There IS actually an upside to high fossil fuel prices. It encourages alternative technology. Venture capital for advanced solar, wind, and battery tech is the hot new thing. Check out www.freeenergynews.com for examples (granted, lots of cranky stuff there, but lots of legitimate mainstream stuff too)

 

^ Makes sense to me. I really hope all the attention and focus on alternative fuels is finally the push we need to make a real change. I for one, am for the environment. I don't give two craps if global warming is real or not -- I just don't like the smell of smog. Alternative energy seems like a good way to help alleviate the stinkiness.

All we need to do is somehow turn environmentalism into a competition that the US can try to win. If having the lowest emissions per capita was a sport, we'd just recruit all the hot shot scientists from other countries and make montages with dramatic music and voiceovers of us stepping up to win the "game". I'm tearing up just thinking about it. USA! USA!

 

Haha Saturn, your posts always crack me up. I read through this thread and kinda chuckled as words were exchanged, egos were crushed, and possibly heart attacks were had. I agree we all need to try to cut back on fuel usage, and I agree we need to find some better solutions to gasoline. Here's hoping we find them.

 

I guess I'm a minority here, too, then. I have to drive 70 miles round trip for work (two full-time jobs). I would take the bus but there is no time for it. It takes 2 hours with the express buses, which don't happen to run to fit my work hours, which I cannot change. (Public transporation also significantly increased rates and cut routes). If I move closer to work, my rent/utilities bill would more than double for less than half the space of my current living situation, which, at least for awhile is more of a burden than the extra gas expenses.

There aren't a lot of significant things I could give up except possibly my cell phone, which I actually need so that is out. The majority of all my expenses are massive medical bills. I also don't have the luxury of carpooling, particularly since my schedule is so tight I can't really depend on anyone else to get me where I needed to go within my exact time frame anyway and I don't happen to live in the city where it would be easier to find a carpool route.

My wages were more than just stagnant. They decreased by more than 60% from last year!!! In fact, they went down quite a bit below my starting pay right out of school with no experience six years ago. Plus, the company cut all kinds of other perks we used to get. This forced me to find new work which means 40 hours a week at a hospital and 32 hours a week at another hospital, which, fortunately is not costing me extra mileage with the change in jobs, just less sleep with commute times. The "new" second job I will be starting soon happens to be on the way home from the first "new" job.

The only thing I can say is that at least now I have great health benefits with virtually no cost to them so I shouldn't be acquiring additional medical bills.

 

 

I moved from 3 miles away to 1.5 miles away by buying a house and bought a motorcycle and a bicycle.

Now, if gas ever gets to $150 a gallon, I think i'll make my $$ back in about 20 years.

 

You see, the thing is, I have no sympathy for people who make stupid decisions. If you are living paycheck to paycheck, have to take a second job, have thousands of dollars in medical bills, and have to drive 70 miles for work every day yet go out and pay $30K+ for an RX-8 that gets 15mpg and then complain about gas prices, I have no sympathy since you made all these choices yourself. If gas prices really concerned you, you would've bought something more economical.

 

 

Gee, it's really my fault that I ended up with major medical bills from an accident and then that my current company restructured and cut my pay so significantly (after I bought my car) and are working at ways to cut us even further, and now to get rid of the car would cost me another large chunk of change. The only places I could find in my area that guarantee me a wage for my same chosen profession (which pays a lot more than anything else I could find) happen to be that far from my house since I don't live in a city or anything (rural area). I'm not complaining about my mileage anyway. I have been getting 19.5-23.5 MPG so I'm not doing that terribly. Besides that, I was working totally and exclusively at home when I made this decision. I would only have gone somewhere about once a week. It was never a concern. You know what they say, **** happens. I dealt with it. Working these two jobs is not going to cost me anymore in gas than just working one of them did, since the other one is directly on the way home, and only requires about two extra miles added to my trip on each work day. Gee, the horror.

I also wasn't living paycheck to paycheck when I made my decisions. I was actually saving money. Then I had to spend a good chunk of savings when my company pulled all their crap on us "because they could" was the official answer. Now I specifically chose to work two jobs so I can pay down as much as posible as fast as possible so I can get ahead. I have figured out how to get buy on the wage of one job but I don't want to just remain treading water, I want out and above, hence why I chose specifically to get a second job outside the house and get rid of the one where I get screwed over repeatedly every other month.

I could either figure out a way to keep what I already had without screwing over my credit and everything else that would be hurting me for a long time, or I could find an additional source of income to fix my problem. That is what I chose, as I thought it was better in the long run and would be of most immediate and long-term benefit. I'm enjoying and it is saving me a lot of stress when they decide to raise rates on bills or anything else and then I have to go into a panic and try to figure out how to pay for things. This way I can save money and be prepared for any future disasters that may be thrown at me. I am very resilient and adaptable.

I don't care to have sympathy from people like you (should be empathy in correct usage) anyway. Great example of that Christian education you got, huh?

I calculated my income and obligations and how much gas I use per week at a lower MPG than I have been getting (plus adding in extra mileage if I go a lot of places on my off days) and I could still afford to pay $6.50 a gallon before I would start being squeezed. If it hits $4 a gallon, of course I'm going to start bitching but I can still afford to pay for it.

 

Then why are you posting in here about not being able to take the bus or give up your cell phone?

 

I am saying this is the only thing I could reasonably hope to give up expense wise if it came to that. Also, that public transportation isn't so great for everyone with limited schedules and locations and it's funny because Portland rates so highly with its public transportation services. It used to be better but high prices have caused them to cut some buses that run and change routes a little bit, which makes it more difficult for other people. I used to be able to take the bus to where I work at in approximately one hour and now it is twice that.

It was my intention to point out that he is not specifically the "minority" when it comes to having to drive long distances and such to get to and from work and accommodate scheduling of his obligations. There is a place I would love to live right now that isn't too far from my work, maybe two miles at most. At this time there are no openings and the monthly expenses are a little high at $1200, although that does include the electricity and other utilities, so that would triple my current expenses unless I get roomates, which is basically the arrangment I have now.

My job will be moving locations sometime this summer from being directly downtown at the hospital to another location about five miles closer to me on the other side of the river so I will be saving mileage that way.

If the price of other "necessities" take a signfiicant jump in price then it will make my budget tighter again, assuming I don't get the cost of living increases through work, which they say they give out every year, which, at this time, I think equates to 43 cents an hour they are posting as the cost of living increase due in June. It's better than nothing, though! My other job just cut wages instead of increasing them.

To me it's not the hugest deal budget wise right now, although I don't like the fact that prices are rising so fast and the oil companies are posting record profits and the like for similar volumes of product. Around me prices seem to go up on average 6-7 cent increment jumps every two to three days. I just know a lot of people that had such a hard time making it when gas was $2 a gallon. I worry about people like that and I'm glad that I have so far managed to escape being in that boat.