djgiron

Wow, a few years ago I said the best thing that could happen to the 8's engine would be something similar to Honda's semi hybrid system, it only was there to assist in acceleration. Simple and small. Sounds like they are thinking the same thing. Some simple small electric motor to help with low RPM acceleration torque until it gets into the power band. It would be low weight and the ieloop system in the current 3 could power it easily with some upgraded caps. But before that, I would imagine around a $40k starting price could happen. Turbo is needed, and if they had the original 16x at around 240hp NA, I could see closer to 280-300 hp FI. Keep the goal around 2500 lbs (so it will be around 2800) and you would have a pretty potent formula.

77mjd

I don't believe they've given any specifics on what sales goals would be for a new rotary car but there's no way a 40k car will get them the volume they want/need. At that price, you're pretty much talking extreme niche/low volume products which I'm not sure Mazda could afford. I think they definitely are looking for more mass appeal/affordability than that.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

CAFE isn't on a per-car basis. The C stands for Corporate. It's averaging the mileage for all cars sold in the line, and not MX-5 + 6 + 3 + 2 + CX-5 + etc... divided by the number of different models, it's the SALES of each model that are totaled up and then mileage averaged. So they can easily sell 1 car that gets 10mpg as long as they sell 20 or so that gets 30ish.

Mazda has been leading all manufacturers, or tying with Honda, on the CAFE score ranking for several years, and last I checked they were just shy of meeting the 2025 CAFE minimum, 9 years early.

CAFE won't stop them from doing anything. They have LOTS of legal headroom to play with, though less "prestige" to play with if they want to keep the top spot. But still, a low volume lower mileage car won't impact their score much as long as they keep the volume regulated. Easy to do.

djgiron

I guess it depends on their goals for this car, if it is meant to be a sales success, then I agree. But I guess I was thinking it was more of a halo type car, get ppl in the door. However, by the number of skylines and Teslas I see on the road, who says it can't be both?

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

If you do some napkin math and add the RX-8 annual sales at it's peak to Mazda's current vehicle sales, I'd bet that their CAFE score would barely drop. With the next rotary already more fuel efficient, There is plenty of room to work with.

fmzambon

Hmm, perhaps the Cayman reference is related to a top of the line RX model. There could be a lower priced version as well to help drive sales numbers up.
In that case MAYBE it's not the base Cayman they are taking as a reference for the top of the line car...

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Yes, it's possible they aren't talking base Cayman, but Cayman S or GTS.


.. or R

...or GT4


But but even if they do have different performance level trims, base RX to base Cayman is still probably what they meant.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Mazda should forget about pandering to the NA market ,like they tried to do and failed, with the RX8 .
Make a proper high performance sports car and forget about low power base models and crappy automatic transmissions .

Shnifty

I'm fine with NA as it will give a lower entry point for the car. What is the point of an auto transmission on a sports car though? Seriously, even if it's a super double-clutch 9000 that is expensive and high-tech, is it really even fun to drive? I want to have a connection with the car, not push buttons at certain times to make it go fast. I know some people don't know how to drive a manual but if you want a sports car, maybe just learn how? I'm sure this has been discussed already.

BigCajun

iTrader: (1)

I agree. I'd like to see what they could do if they aim high.
I couldn't afford it, but I would still like to see the potential realized.

BigCajun

iTrader: (1)

+1^
Key word, DRIVE. Not operate.

RX8Soldier

iTrader: (24)

The issue is that the majority of drivers these days are not learned or trained in manual anymore. Not that many people of that current generation will be able to purchase this car... but it's still something they'll consider.

poacherinthezoo

The majority of people who can buy a second/third/etc car with 2-seats in this price bracket (Porsche Cayman, etc) care more about the badge on the front of the car (which is "worth it's weight in myrrh") and magazine numbers than they do about the driving experience. To go dual clutch only is cheaper to develop and produce than an optional manual (something Ferrari once admitted long ago).

ZoomEricZoom

The concept does look huge.. But I read somewhere that the RX-8 is actually 50mm (ish) longer!!

The concept is lower and wider though.. But only by a little bit.

77mjd

I was shocked when they gave the dimensions as well, considering how big that thing looks. However, given there will be no back seats I'm actually surprised it isn't even shorter.

Spin9k

Agreed. I've never thought the rotary was reliable, just FUN until it failed! My '72 RX-2 blew its seals two times, then my '04 RX-8 bent an eccentric shaft. Multiple other RX-8 failure modes have come thru as sad stories in this forum over time. Compression (seals) were esp. problematic, among other parts.

So 30 yrs of research & development didn't solve reliability RX-2 > RX-8, I'm thinking it's a stretch, and a difficult one at that, that Mazda can actually pull a reliable, bullet proof rotary out of their labs, given another 15 years. Nevertheless, I'll be interested to see what can solve these vexing and inherent problems.

I sure hope I'm wrong, and if I am, they deserve an "engine of the year award" for the result!

Love_Hounds

Mazda has never had a problem with building a "bulletproof" rotary. The problem was making that rotary affordable, with today's material sciences, materials/processes should be cheaper to the point where people can afford the engines.

ASH8

Best cars of the 2015 Tokyo Motor Show | Auto Express

It takes a brave company to unveil a concept that heralds the return of a much loved engine, and reveal virtually nothing about the engine itself. But that was the unorthodox strategy employed by Mazda on its RX-Vision, which tantalisingly previews a production rotary-engine sports car. And it worked. The RX-Vision’s dramatic looks and compelling storyline made it the undisputed star of the show. You could sense the passion when Mazda execs talked about taking on Porsche’s Cayman head-to-head; the excitement is only going to build as the countdown to a production model gets underway.



Not a bad summary by AUTO EXPRESS UK, which is actually owned by 'Auto Build' in Germany who is a one-eyed German car industry apologist.

IMO probably the BEST looking concept (close to production) I have ever seen from Mazda, this RX-VISION is just gorgeous, I want to make love with/in it!!

IMO Mazda has HUGE RE issues to address, mileage, emissions, price and reliability.

Considering Mazda has not markedly improved MPG, how and where are they going to find a 30% MPG improvement in REAL WORLD OWNERSHIP/USE?
Yes Mazda gave us a 35% improvement with the RENESIS I @ Idle, no change in real world use above 850 RPM.
Emissions, stage 6 in CAT design and use, but at a HUGE cost, again I am having trouble in seeing WHERE they will find a large lowering to conform with ALL standards WORLDWIDE for the next 15 years.!
Reliability, ? probably the #1 marketing and ''in the mind'' issue to placate existing and any future virgin buyers of our RX- series.
I hope and believe Mazda will actually do extensive field testing and not RUSH the RENESIS III into a production model like they did with RENESIS I (Ford Motor Company).
True believers know that it is normal for any RE to consume engine Oil, but normal punters view this as a horror story associated with Banger engine.

IMO Mazda has no choice but to convince new car buyers that their new 16X IS the Bees Knees in Sports Cars which wont be easy as sales to us enthusiast (me and you) is not enough to break even.

I don't know, I have this worrying feeling that the new RX-Vision is just a PR exercise and will never make production as there are too many constraints to comply @ worldwide retail.

Again Mazda pulls the pants down on the industry competitors to the point where Mazda are so far out in front as THE auto leader.
It is a real shame that Mazda in the US is embarrassingly underperforming and a complacency perception.
Where is the dynamism?

200.mph

iTrader: (9)

sports cars should always have a stick. people are too lazy and most buy a car based on looks not performance, how it handles, brakes, etc cause people are stoopid. everyone should have to take their drivers test on a stick

gwilliams6

ASH8, you have a ton of Mazda history to back up all you perceptions. However, I think Mazda will solve all the issues you raise and produce this car, as long as they are still having record worldwide sales of their other bread-and-butter models.

If they fail now they will have egg-on-their-face, and will leave the automotive world without any rotary future. It is their heart and soul, as was stated at the show. Make it and we will come and buy it, no worry. I believe they have already solved some of the issues you raise, and that is why they took the chance to introduce the concept. I think they are close to solving it all and we will be stunned and surprised with the new technologies they use to make it all work. I have unwavering faith in Mazda to make it happen. I can't wait !!

zoom44

a sketch by Ikuo Maeda done at the show

thunderberk

So that sketch work gives that vision is RX-7 Vision

D13

New RX coming?


Mazda RX-VISION concept debuts in Tokyo. The rotary is back! (The Torque Report)

Love_Hounds

This has been posted all o[ver] the site already. But yeah, should be awesome when it's finally made.

RX8Soldier

iTrader: (24)

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