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As much as I love, genuinely love, Mazda for their attention to what makes a car fun to drive and overall suspension tuning (my 2012 Mazda2 with all 98 lb-feet of torque is way more fun to drive than my wife's 2013 128i), I see this as a concept car and nothing more. [Mazda, please prove me wrong.]
Call me me pessimistic but...according to the aforementioned interview ( Mazda RX-Vision Tokyo concept previews new RX-7 coupe | Auto Express ), the wheel base is 4.3 inches shorter than the already shorter (90.9 inch) wheel base of the 2016 miata, and 2.6 inch shorter than my old 2000 NB miata. Also, the statement: "This time we want to make sure there are no quality issues with rotary" would appear to be a blatant admission by a Mazda official that the RX8 was half-baked - series 1 and 2.
Color me a pessimistic skeptic, but I'll believe it - and moreover will BUY it - when/if it goes on sale (assuming it's sub-$100k and doesn't have any batteries in the floor).
poacher, it IS a concept car, specifically a STYLE concept car. They specifically said so ... repeatedly.
The only things actually shown are the overall looks of the car, which has to change anyway to meet safety standards, so they aren't even realistic. Nothing non-style was released or implied, so that sure can change wildly too.
"Kiyoshi Fujiwara, told Autocar that the efficiency of the latest version is now on par with more conventional engines thanks to advances in engineering software, while the other issues have also been mitigated.
The exact specifications for the new engine and the RX-Vision have not been revealed, but Fujiwara says the goal is to build a production car that would be lighter than the Porsche Cayman while delivering similar performance.
"
oh and if you wouldnt mind everyone. drop an email, tweet, facebook post, phone call etc to mazda /mazda usa and tell them to bring this RX-Vision to the states and showcase it at several auto shows. i want to see it in person
Yeah, that's wishful thinking.
My '04 GT MSRP was +$35k in 2003.
I'll be shocked if it's less than $70k.
I think that Mazda needs to make the RX-50 (Vision concept turned to reality) a more mainstream but unique car - bringing the RX-50 back to the RX-7 original launch roots. A blast to drive, reliable, unique, and priced right.
"Kiyoshi Fujiwara, told Autocar that the efficiency of the latest version is now on par with more conventional engines thanks to advances in engineering software, while the other issues have also been mitigated.
The exact specifications for the new engine and the RX-Vision have not been revealed, but Fujiwara says the goal is to build a production car that would be lighter than the Porsche Cayman while delivering similar performance.
"
Hmm.
The Cayman, and I'm using the base Cayman here, because it's more likely, is 275hp, 2,900lbs, or 10.5lbs per hp
So for "similar performance" in the powertrain it would be at each weight:
2900lbs, 275hp
2800lbs, 266hp
2700lbs, 256hp
2600lbs, 247hp
2500lbs, 237hp
2400lbs, 228hp
2300lbs, 218hp
2200lbs, 209hp
2100lbs, 199hp
2000lbs, 190hp
So more power than I was estimating. With the wheelbase nearly the wheelbase of the RX-8 (and assuming it doesn't actually change, which it could entirely change), I would revise my weight estimate to about 2,700lbs, which means a peak power number of about 256hp.
Of course, that is before Mazda's wizardry that makes cars faster with less peak power, so it could have a lower peak to obtain the similar performance number.
I'd also guess that this will easily be a $40,000 car. I don't expect Mazda will be actually hitting the Cayman's price range ($52,000 starting)
Yeah, that's wishful thinking.
My '04 GT MSRP was +$35k in 2003.
I'll be shocked if it's less than $70k.
They already said they will need a good sales volume in order to make this project doable so it will be affordable. Keep it clean and simple without a lot of junk options and there's no reason it shouldn't be in the 30k range.
Mazda spokesperson didn't deny that there might be FI in this car's future. They could get a lot of added power at low weight to make this thing a screamer.
Yet it is a concept car and I expect nearly all aspects to need refining and be changed as the technologies advance in the next few years. I don't see this coming to market before the Mazda centennial year 2020, if at all.
Like the same Mazda spokesperson intimated, they want to test this three times as much as a normal car and come in with a basically bulletproof reliable beast. It will take the next few years of further development and testing to deliver this baby. Mazda knows, as I and others have said before in this forum, that Mazda must get this one right, out of the box, no mistakes, no hidden shortcomings.
I fully expect Mazda to accomplish all this. Then I will add this to my garage and keep my rotary car owning streak unbroken. I can't wait ! But I will still keep my 40th Anniversary Edition RX8 and its back seat utility and fun.
Last edited by gwilliams6; 10-28-2015 at 08:01 PM.
Mazda spokesperson didn't deny that there might be FI in this car's future. They could get a lot of added power at low weight to make this thing a screamer.
Yet it is a concept car and I expect nearly all aspects to need refining and be changed as the technologies advance in the next few years. I don't see this coming to market before the Mazda centennial year 2020, if at all.
Like the same Mazda spokesperson intimated, they want to test this three times as much as a normal car and come in with a basically bulletproof reliable beast. It will take the next few years of further development and testing to deliver this baby. Mazda knows, as I and others have said before in this forum, that Mazda must get this one right, out of the box, no mistakes, no hidden shortcomings.
I fully expect Mazda to accomplish all this. Then I will add this to my garage and keep my rotary car owning streak unbroken. I can't wait ! But I will still keep my 40th Anniversary Edition RX8 and its back seat utility and fun.
Amen to keeping the RX-8, buying this new one, and finally delivering a rotary for the sports car enthusiast at a reasonable price (think RX-7)
I'd also guess that this will easily be a $40,000 car. I don't expect Mazda will be actually hitting the Cayman's price range ($52,000 starting)
My thought is that if their flagship car was $35k 12 years ago, and unless they have some miracle 'Rotary Breakthrough', the new emissions compliant power plant would be significantly more expensive to produce, then it would seem logical to me that about 20 years later the more sophisticated incarnation would be significantly more expensive with the inflation rate considered.
I also feel that with the tarnished reputation due to the bad press the RX8 received, it will be more of an upscale enthusiast niche sports car.
Been 10 years since I bought my 8, still have it, looking and driving mint after all this time. Have since bought a truck, a convertible and a sedan, but the 8 remains my fun car. Think I've been waiting for this concept all along. Perfect dimensions, right design principles, and only something Mazda and a rotary can be.
I also believe this will be close to a $40,000 car. When I bought my red FD new in 1992 ,it was close to $38,000 and positioned upscale to compete with Porsche. They have talked about the Porsche Cayman as a target, so unfortunately I don't see this car, with a host of new breakthrough tech being priced close to the MX5.
Mazda says the just announced rotary engine will first be introduced without any electrification, in order to showcase the company’s expertise in this field.
Speaking to the Australian media at the Tokyo Motor Show today, Mazda’s global boss of R&D, Kiyoshi Fujiwara, said that any initial release of the rotary engine would be without electrification, though he admitted turbocharging is on the agenda.
“If we can produce this kind of engine and this kind of product with rotary engine, firstly I would like to introduce rotary engine itself, no electrification,” Fujiwara said.
“Because if we had help of electrification, people will say this helped the rotary engine, therefore personally I want to introduce the rotary engine without electrification, as the first step, then with severe requirement for CO2 and emission systems, we continue to add some applications.”
Fujiwara also confirmed the rotary engine is a continuation of the work on the 16X, meaning the Mazda rotary engine of the future will be 1.6-litre in capacity. Known a the Renesis II, the 16x made its initial appearance in the Mazda Taiki concept car at the 2007 Tokyo Auto Show. At the time Mazda said it had around 223kW of power.
However, those power figures are likely to change considering the inherent torque defecit of rotary engines will likely lead to some form of assistant technology like turbocharging.
“Yes it is inevitable – [a] turbocharger is one of the big contributors for rotary engine in the future.”
Also, while hybridisation will not be available to start with, Fujiwara says that helping that initial take off speed could potentially be well served by an electric motor.
“Rotary engine has some weakness with low RPM in terms of torque, therefore if we can have a good motor system for helping for that kind of area for low RPM, weakness of the torque range, that is one of the solutions for the future.”
Much like the RX-8 introduced friction welding that filtered down the Mazda range, the new RX sports car will also serve as the basis for new technologies being introduced into the Mazda family.
“Firstly we use this new technology in new sports car then it can be delivered to other passenger cars.”
According to Fujiwara, the engine is very close to starting prototype testing, however the company is focused on making sure that the emission systems, fuel economy and reliability are addressed as top priority before the engine sees full-scale production.
Mazda says the just announced rotary engine will first be introduced without any electrification, in order to showcase the company’s expertise in this field.
Speaking to the Australian media at the Tokyo Motor Show today, Mazda’s global boss of R&D, Kiyoshi Fujiwara, said that any initial release of the rotary engine would be without electrification, though he admitted turbocharging is on the agenda.
“If we can produce this kind of engine and this kind of product with rotary engine, firstly I would like to introduce rotary engine itself, no electrification,” Fujiwara said.
“Because if we had help of electrification, people will say this helped the rotary engine, therefore personally I want to introduce the rotary engine without electrification, as the first step, then with severe requirement for CO2 and emission systems, we continue to add some applications.”
Fujiwara also confirmed the rotary engine is a continuation of the work on the 16X, meaning the Mazda rotary engine of the future will be 1.6-litre in capacity. Known a the Renesis II, the 16x made its initial appearance in the Mazda Taiki concept car at the 2007 Tokyo Auto Show. At the time Mazda said it had around 223kW of power.
However, those power figures are likely to change considering the inherent torque defecit of rotary engines will likely lead to some form of assistant technology like turbocharging.
“Yes it is inevitable – [a] turbocharger is one of the big contributors for rotary engine in the future.”
Also, while hybridisation will not be available to start with, Fujiwara says that helping that initial take off speed could potentially be well served by an electric motor.
“Rotary engine has some weakness with low RPM in terms of torque, therefore if we can have a good motor system for helping for that kind of area for low RPM, weakness of the torque range, that is one of the solutions for the future.”
Much like the RX-8 introduced friction welding that filtered down the Mazda range, the new RX sports car will also serve as the basis for new technologies being introduced into the Mazda family.
“Firstly we use this new technology in new sports car then it can be delivered to other passenger cars.”
According to Fujiwara, the engine is very close to starting prototype testing, however the company is focused on making sure that the emission systems, fuel economy and reliability are addressed as top priority before the engine sees full-scale production.
Even though we just saw the concept yesterday, part of me thinks there may already be a design closer to production stashed away somewhere at Mazda.
It's a Mazda 6 with electric motor and rotory range extender, named /Cosmo due in showrooms in 2020
i agree. but
1)"normal" hybrid,not range extender role for rotary (fujiwara talks of lacks of low end torque, so rotary is eventually involved directly in traction to wheels, mated with an electric motor)
2) RWD (i've read somewhere that a new RWD platform for big size cars is under study in Mazda...but for a launch from 2020 onward)
3) before a 2020 Cosmo we'll have an RX-7 IV and not hybrid, fujiwara it's clear in that interview.
Mazda really should have put the nose of this thing on the new Miata. That's a damn sexier implementation of their current pentagon grill on a sports car than any of the renders people had been putting out prior to this concept. Also, while I love the concept, I really wish it had realistic proportions. That hood is way too long, those wheels way too big, and that roofline way too low. I'd like a better idea of what a production model's proportions will be. Taylor's photoshop is pretty good, but I'd like every angle, ya know?
This has all been amazing news and from the R&D side it really sounds like they have a capable motor that could be ready for prototyping. Even thought the RX8 was a success in our minds, for Mazda the Renesis did not live up to their expectations. There has been a lot of good that came out of it, with the focus of their new production model on economy, reliability and emissions. I love my RX8 even with all of the apparent "faults", which are more like "quirks or personality".
We only have a few more years before the strict rules of the CAFE 2020 come around. With the internal deadline of the 50th anniversary coming along it would make sense they are potentially releasing a car with only a rotary before then. Good on Mazda for sticking to their stubbornness and not just throwing a hybrid at it.
I'd also guess that this will easily be a $40,000 car. I don't expect Mazda will be actually hitting the Cayman's price range ($52,000 starting)
40 grand to start. Although, reading that there may be a turbo variant out later let's me think they might price it lower out the gate, say 40 grand base, then in a year or 2 when the 2nd milestone hits, upgrade to an electric turbo with other goodies for around 50 grand. I don't see it going pass that. if it bases at under 40 I'm definitely getting one. But you gotta remember, a 2 seater significantly shuts out many buyers who want a sports coupe, not car. I wish it had 4 seats and suicide doors. That made the 8 for me, other than the fun to drive. A 2 seater means many will have to have another car.
10-28-2015, 05:44 PM
Perfect dimensions, right design principles, and only something Mazda and a rotary can be. 
