2013 Scion FR-S
 

Actually looks amazing... granted that and it being RWD is really all it has going for itself in my eyes. Surprised to see one of these today, thought it was a Maserati at first.

Anybody else even know this thing existed?

edit: here's a link to it

http://www.scion.com/cars/FR-S/

This post has been up for over 8 hours and not one taker? I'm shocked.

https://www.rx8club.com/lounge-4/rx8-over-brz-what-you-think-231639/
https://www.rx8club.com/general-automotive-49/subaru-brz-vs-honda-s2000-drag-race-234038/
https://www.rx8club.com/general-automotive-49/brz-vs-toyota-86-vs-roadster-%40-twin-ring-motegi-232630/
https://www.rx8club.com/general-automotive-49/brz-competitor-232208/
https://www.rx8club.com/general-automotive-49/scion-fr-s-dyno-video-231881/
https://www.rx8club.com/general-automotive-49/brz-tested-0-60-quarter-slalon-ummm-231105/
https://www.rx8club.com/general-automotive-49/subaru-brz-pricing-announced-%2424k-base-%2427k-high-spec-226084/
https://www.rx8club.com/general-automotive-49/official-toyota-gt86-2596lbs-230295/
etc...

Subaru BRZ = Scion FR-S Same car, different front bumper and lights (directly interchangeable) and different spring rates.

Is this a serious question? There has been a lot of discussion here and just about every other car forum on the internet.

its ugly anyway

you thought it was a Maserati? have you actually ever seen a Maserati in person? (please read the previous questions in Clarkson's voice)

I would agree. The last minute changes they made looks terrible. They should have left it alone.

exactly, when i saw the last concept I honestly said wow, and then the designer got a stroke and while drawing the last sketch.. and in no way does that look like a maserati in no shape or form.

Funny last night on the I-75 there was a VR 8 in front of me and a Subie BR-Z riding next to it. It was the first time I was able to see both cars next to each other, and the wife and I agreed, the 8 is still a sexier car. Long live the RX8!

Have you been living in a cave for the past year?

Looks like a Hyundai, KIA, and Toyota had one big NASTY orgy and shit this thing out... OR someone broke the ugly stick on it, not sure... UGH, then there will be the "Ricer" versions too... Great...

Scion is like a Hyundai to me, even though.

:lol: This thread fails, I am so tired of hearing of these POS FRS/BRZ's. There were two FRS's at the last coffee and cars, I was as unimpressed in person as I was with them on the internet.

looks sexy to me.

http://www.motorworldhype.com/wp-con...iew_small1.jpg

http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=scion+...:23,s:66,i:266

:3some::puke:

ugliest rims ever

needs aggressive aftermarket rims
needs a aggressive drop
needs amber corner delete/blacked out
needs some sleeker mirrors
needs eyelids

needs more power.

then it would be tolerable. Personally i wouldnt buy it, supposedly it has a high compression motor too. Sports cars are concerned, i wouldnt buy anything slower than the 8 with less seats unless it was a lotus.

http://www.autoguide.com/gallery/d/4...on-FRS-TRD.jpg

http://refined-marques.s3.amazonaws....dale-white.jpg

Personally I see a resemblance (even if a slight one). It's obvious which one I like better, but it's not as if I see either one on a daily (er even yearly) basis so Im basing that off a quick glance.

As for living in a cave, when it comes to scions, ya I wouldn't have a clue about any of their new cars as I know I will never EVER buy one and I rarely wander over to this section of the forums (or any other car forums).

[QUOTE=EricB;4277962]ugliest rims ever


/QUOTE]


The rims ruin it for me too...I've also heard the wheels have a weird bolt pattern which greatly reduce your selection aftermarket.

You can say that about most cars if your picky enough. the Rx8 looks better dropped, with aftermarket wheels and clear corners, so technically by your standards the rx8 is ugly too. Car companies have to make cars to some degree universal. They have to make the vehicle useable in all types of weather and for all types of drivers. Some people buy an rx8 as a daily driver, that is why it isn't as low as it could be, same with the FRS, they are not going to drop it to the ground because it'll turn people off who want to drive it all the time and pick up groceries.

They are also trying to be affordable, disposable income is going down, so popping out $40,000+ vehicles expecting high sales in today's market is not a smart investment. But a $25,000-30,000 "sports car" attracts a larger market and those that want a fun vehicle without spending a ton of money (if they don't have it).

rx8 does the quarter mile in 14.8, so does the FRS. 0-60 times are similar too.

I'm in no way saying that the FRS is better then the rx8, i'm just saying that down the road to those looking at the next vehicle after the 8, its not a bad choice.


and whats with people bashing scion so much.. they are a branch of toyota, we're talking Japanese the same as mazda. Toyota as been around a long time and makes some of the most popular well known vehicles on the road.

Fixed that for you.

BC.

I'm in no way saying that the FRS is better then the rx8, i'm just saying that down the road to those looking at the next vehicle after the 8, its not a bad choice.

It's not a bad choice, it's a horrible choice. If it is not as good as an RX8, then why trade in for one? Step up, not down. Aesthetics aside, this car is not comparable to an RX8 so why would you want one then? They really don't offer anything over what you already have. Most RX8 owners step up to say an M3 or the like, not this piece of garbage. Stop trying to polish a lump of coal. As far as your assumption that the FRS is almost as fast, keep in mind that a V6 Camry could smoke an 8 in a straight line, so that doesn't hold any water either.

I think too many people had high expectations for these cars which resulted in negative reactions to the reality. It's a decent looking car with decent performance at a generally low price. It is better balanced than most other options in that price range which is why a lot of the alternatives are silly to point out.

A lot of the comments I've seen here are the same comments that people made about the 8. Many people disliked the design, said it was slow and would point out what other cars you could get in the same price range. Obviously, we disagreed and enjoyed the 8.

Personally, I can't say I see myself buying one. My mind might change once we see how the aftermarket market develops. My biggest hope is that it will turn out to be a good platform to work on. As a stock car, I can agree that it's not overly exciting.

Just going to point out here that this statement isn't accurate. It has superior fuel economy, superior size for anyone that prefers smaller cars, and it even has a piston engine for those people that find the rotary to be the biggest detractor of the 8.

Insisting that no one would want a given car is an exercise in futility. After all, people bought cars like the Aztec, the Smart ForTwo, etc...

Every single car ever made has points that will make it appealing to SOMEONE. They don't need to appeal to EVERYONE. In fact, no car ever made has appealed to 100% of the population. That the FR-S / BRZ would find people here that would consider it seriously should not come as a surprise because it shares so much in common with the 8.

"Upgrades" and "downgrades" are entirely subjective to the point of view of the person buying. And if you aren't the one buying for whichever reason is your particular flavor, bashing someone for having a situation in life and/or preferences that would make it appealing is doing quite an injustice to the car community as a whole. What makes the car enthusiast community so great is it's differences. Do you really wish everyone to have the same opinion that you do? It's not only not a reality, but would be quite unpleasant to have come true.

Quite true. I'll admit I often want to be self-righteous and laugh whenever I see the stereotypical civic with the loud exhaust and big rear wing etc., but then I think hey... at least the kid has a passion, at least he (or she) loves driving and owning their car.

There was a time (looooooong ago) when even I clipped playing cards into the spokes of my bicycle to make it go (sound) zoom zoom, lol.

Everything you said is true... but honestly as a sports car you can't compare... as often people have been prone to do. If you like this car go buy it, I can't see why all us RX8 types would want to drop our spark plugs and go run to this though.

You don't really have to speak in universals.

For example, the BRZ was on my list as a potential to buy for a daily. I need a more fuel efficient daily than my 8 for my new 76 mile 1-way commute, and getting to 30mpg is a 50% mileage improvement. But I am unwilling to give up sharp handling for the soul numbing of an actual econo box. The BRZ then easily fits that criteria. The gas savings I need without sacrificing much of what I love of the 8.

On my list it came in just behind a new Miata, but purely from a perspective of known history. I can expect no problems from a new Miata, but I can expect first-year problems from a BRZ.

At no point have I suggested that "all us RX8 types would want to drop our spark plugs and go run to this". Simply putting forth reasons why someone of our vehicle preferences WOULD have to get an FR-S / BRZ. I don't class all of us in the same circumstances, environment, or inclination, and neither should you.

No but the problem still exists that I have read online that this car is a superior car to the RX8 created by all of that hype. All the points for your argument could be used to "insert car name here" and then list the reasons. If you feel I was wrong by stating my opinion, than I apologize, but I am not going to retract what I stated.

I wouldn't expect you to retract your statement. Your opinion is your own, and I am not trying to change it at all. I do agree that as far as pure performance (acceleration, top speed, handling), the FR-S / BRZ is NOT superior to the RX-8. However, that doesn't mean that "They really don't offer anything over what you already have." is correct, because they DO offer quite a bit over the RX-8.

Yes, my argument could apply to any car, and that is precisely my point. People buy cars for many many reasons, and usually for reasons that you won't agree with, and even performance oriented cars are purchased for reasons other than their performance.

I take no objection to you disliking the FR-S / BRZ. None at all. I also take no objection to your dislike of the hype around the car. I certainly believe it has been over-hyped as well. But that doesn't change the car's points of value, it only changes the points of value for the people doing the reviews. I like the aspect of the hype that helps to make people more aware that "fun cars can indeed be driven by mundane people!" but in many cases it has indeed been taken ridiculously far.

I only take objection to the appearance of your post that assumes that everyone else here must have your opinion as well, and that you should be the one to pick and choose their car for them.

Just go buy one then, you win.

https://www.rx8club.com/general-automotive-49/test-drove-fr-s-today-234037/

:lol:

I am often misunderstood.


No, I will not be buying one. I was just refuting your argument that there is no reason for an RX-8 owner to buy one. It is 3rd on my list, not 1st.

What did you not like about the car?

But the biggest dislike about the BRZ is the engine. But then, that's the biggest thing to make me dislike the choice of a 2012 or 2009 Miata (#2) as well. Between the two, it's basically +33 hp and unknown first year issues vs drop top and a proven engine and chassis. The Miata edges it out just barely to me.

Instead though, I'm doing another engine replacement in my 99 Miata (which has caused me no end of issues) to use as a daily until the diesel CX-5 arrives, and then the economy of that is by far a massive advantage while still being fun enough for a daily, and it's towing capacity allows me to trailer the Miata or the 8 to the track for events.

Why IS it being worshipped so much? I don't think I've ever read a negative review the car. Articles occasionally mention a concern or two, but quickly follow up with, "But that's OK, because..." almost as if they're afraid the Thought Police are going to show up and jail them for their blasphemy.

Reviews use terms like "The BRZ is a signifcant event," and I've seen reviewers say it's been the highlight of their career.

Am I missing something? It's a perfectly nice car, but a "signifcant event?" I'm almost afraid to drive one, it's as if anyone who gets near it is assimilated by the BRZ borg mind, lol.

It's because of how it's approaching performance that is accessible to "normal" people.

If you look at most affordable cars which are marketed as "for performance", most of them dump the cost of the vehicle into the engine. In order for there to be a 300 - 400 hp car that is less than $30,000 in the "affordable" range, it HAS to make cost sacrifices in other areas. Since interior quality and features sell far more effectively than suspension points which promote good handling, it is usually the suspension which gets the redheaded stepchild treatment. This is where you get muscle cars. Any there are tons of them. All the time.

What happens when you add a good suspension and excellent handling attributes to a muscle car? You quickly leave the "affordable" range, and nudge closer to supercar class.

If someone buys a car for it's engine, they aren't going to dump lots of money into the engine. It's just against the nature of things. You will spend far more for incremental improvement on the suspension than you will on the engine.

Subaru / Toyota approached it from the other side. "If people are going to dump money into the engine, and they undoubtably will, then lets start with a "weaker" engine, but a better chassis".

What you have then is a car where it doesn't need much improvement in the suspension. It's capable out of the box. But the engine is what took the cost hit to keep it affordable. And they are ok with that, because they know that people will boost them, chip them, reflash them, etc... in the name of more power.

They could have also made it 300hp. But if they did they would either have to kill the suspension to keep it affordable (killing the concept completely), or increase the price out of the affordability range.

The journalists are generally only "going nuts" when taken as an aggregate. Any single review reads very much like an RX-8's review, and is reasonable in it's approach. The point of objection I tend to have is when they forget that light good handling cars did actually exist before.

It's a lot like a RX8 except it's lighter and gets pretty good gas mileage. I like it.

It's a significant car because ... name all of the sports coupes with rear wheel drive costing significantly less than 30k.

1) Hyundai Genesis Coupe
2) Scion FRS
3) Subaru BRZ
4) Mustang
5) Camaro
6) Challenger

I felt compelled to list the last three even though many would not consider them in the same class.

The BRZ/FRS is gay in stock form.

The problem I have with the media regarding the BRZFRS, is that they all fail to mention that Mazda did this car better 8 years ago...

affordable RWD sports coupe that stresses handling/balance over raw speed...

This thread tends to be going in cirlces...
:Eyecrazy:

yes yes it does. it will be endless posts of... I like it because... I dislike it because...

to each their own.

I would tend to agree. I truly believe the MPG issue was the downfall of the RX-8 and if it got near 30 HWY like the Toyobaru it would still be in production. Other than MPG, does the BRZ really offer anything superior to the 8?

Performance wise no. But it is in production and has one of the largest car companies backing it. I don't understand the hate towards the car, yes the media is over hyping the car, but this cars success could mean Mazda will continue the development of a sporty car. But what happens if Mazda would not be able to make a new small sports car besides the Miata, this means that the BRZ and FRS may be the only cars available to people who like the small sporty coupes with a focus on handling and driver feel. So really even if you don't like the car you want it to succeed so other car companies jump in a start making or continue (Mazda) making their own cheaper drivers cars.

I don't get the MPG BS, I mean if the RX-8 got 25MPG average that would shut the critics up but really how much money would owners save getting another 8MPG average? Peanuts.

I think a lot of people are a bit biased towards hating the BRZ/FR-S as it's performance seemed targeted at the 8, right after the 8 was removed from production, especially for it being a RWD 2+2 and even though it's slower than the 8 in every possible way, is somehow not being criticized for having a higher 0-60 time even though it was manufactured 10 years after the 8, around the same price and having an engine design that's been in production for over a century. The car is extremely over-hyped, even on facebook, I always see posts about and how it's the most revolutionary piece of machinery, especially because it has a "lower center of gravity than a Ferrari" so now all the F&F Tokyo Drift loving guys have an affordable car to ruin with mad bragging rights.


That being said, I think the car isn't bad and others should appreciate other cars, there are other nice cars out there that aren't 8's.

I was thinking about getting a FRS/BRZ and I saw both of them in preson. They are nice but to me the RX-8 is the better chioce I have always loved that body stlye of the RX-8 I own a lexus IS 250 07. I've been looking on the web for a used 8 it will go down as one of the greatest sports cars in history and it still looks great.

Since the rotary is likely to be gone for a long time...maybe forever...do you think Mazda would try to offer another RWD sports coupe without the rotary? Given the FR-S, BRZ, and Genesis Coupe, I still think there is plenty of room in the segment for others to jump in. Something based on that Shinari concept would not be a bad idea at all.

mazda would be foolish not to offer something, unless they just slap 2 doors on the next mazda 3 and turbo the skyactiv. hopefully not

This opens a can of worms. Out of that list, there is a lot to consider, especially since the V6 variants of the Camaro and Mustang getting at least as good as MPG and being faster than the aformentioned FRS/BRZ.

Rememebr the last big weather event on TV where you live? It's nearly like they're talking 'end of the world' stuff. Then it comes and goes, and generally, it's not all that...compared to what they're talking about coming NEXT, and it starts all over again!

Remember the last time you saw a really, really REALLY beautiful girl?I generally am not thinking at that point, but if there was a god, SHE is reason enough to believe! Has to be the most beautiful girl in the world ... er... then I look around and see another one...oh no ... now SHES the most beautiful and on and on.

Ever read a review on a new or upcoming car that is bound to bring the automobile world to its knees, make it rethink the concept of <insert whatever>? It's named the "Best <insert platitude> Car Ever". Couple years down the er..ah..'road', reviewers are making excuses for its failings, comparing it to 'yesterdays technology' and calling it "venerable, but lacking"? Me too.

Just now the FRS/BRZ will have its day, being the crowning jewel in automotivedom.... but before long the siren song of 'new model <insert name>' will serenade every car journalist and editor to new heights of verbal and written insanity, while the inevitable comparisons with the reining status quo cars will place ithem silently and convincingly where they TRULY belong.

My memory is fading, but it seems to me the RX-8 has gone thru those stages itself, and now is finding its own place in automotive history. Time will (continue) to tell :mchase:

Just going to point out that people that buy any sport cars for MPG's need to stop reproducing.