Katchoo

I have had a set of the PZero Nero MS on my car for about 3 weeks now and am not all that impressed. They are quieter than the OEMs...and smoother, but I sometimes feel that their directional stability on dry roads is less than the OEMs. I get an odd feeling, almost like they have induced a bit of over steer into the car. There also is a grooved section of highway that I travel on and the PZeros are definitely more affected by the grooves than the OEMs were (with the OEMs I couldn't even tell I was on grooves).

The other day we had a small amount of snow fall on us that immediately turned to ice. Well, it was SCARY even going 2 MPH. Yes, I know that these tires won't help in icy conditions, but this was ridiculous. Going 2 miles per hour in stop and go traffic, combined with the car's front brake bias, low weight, at idle (auto), I was spinning my tires both slowing down and just coming off brake to move forward - the idle speed (600 RPM?) was spinning the tires! I got off the road and into a restaurant where I spent the next 3 hours going back and forth to the buffet until the roads and traffic cleared out.

Anyway, to make a long story short, I am not impressed with the performance of these tires so far. The over steer feeling is really weird...tread pattern?

And yes, they are the fuzziest tires I have EVER seen! I comment that I have wrapped porcupines around my rims...little rubber nubs everywhere! Good looking tires - but....

mdmaclean

How was the other traffic dealing with the ice on the road? How were you comparing to FWD with all seasons, as well as all-wheel drives, etc?

Katchoo

It seemed that almost everyone else was doing much better than I was. Yes it was slick, but for me it was downright dangerous. I was skittering all over the place at 1-2 MPH. I am betting that if I had about 100LBS of sand in the trunk I would have done much better.

To answer your question, I didn't see anyone else slipping around like I was...fact is, I had this one 4 WD truck right on my...er...butt. So here I am spinning tires all over the place (brake off / brake on), fishtailing, etc., and he is right on me. Amazing!

The roads were awful...but I was surprised that the tires didn't seem to help as much as I had hoped. I hate to think what it would have been with the OEM tires.

Good Thing: The tires look AWESOME! I think I got 245/40x18 (if I remember correctly). Just a tad fatter....they look great.

Anyway, it shall be interesting to see how they do in a light snow...ice really isn't a fair test.

Now all I need do is go and buy a few sacks of sand...

Katchoo

Let me add that I did a few exit ramps at speed today (sand and salt mostly gone) and the tires seemed very good...better than the OEMs. A bit more responsive (slight over-steer?) also.

With those monster grooves, they should do well in the rain also. Splish splash!

kg6c

I apologize to ask this question, I am sure it has been asked a million times, I nearly got into an accident in the snow last week. My baby is parked indoors now, and I am renting. Could someone please tell me what snow tires I can get. Thanks and sorry for asking this question.

Omicron

Just spend some time in the forum where you found this thread reading other threads, or search on "Winter tires." You'll find LOTS of info.

Raevik

Like I said...I was disappointed b/c I think I was overhyped by many people on this thread that these tires somehow do it all. I personally think they are just as good if not better than the stock tires for dry performance and better than OEM in the snow.

Bottom line is that's what I paid for.

Are they good snow tires? Hell no. Can you MOVE and TURN with them? Yes.

If that's good enough for you, then it's a great lower-cost investment than swapping out seasonaly. If you really need to drive in the snow more than occasionally, I'd strongly suggest going to winter tires. The 7.6 rating (or close, I can't recall) from Tire Rack is probably overstated.

With a 1 being summer performance tires and 10 being snow tires, I'd say these are about a 4, maybe a 5.

Katchoo

As others have said, there are lots of threads / opinions out there on this subject.

But one of the top-rated all-weather tires is what this thread is all about (PZero Nero M&S). The 245/40 - 18s will fit your stock rims and car with no problems. The roll-out is almost the same too so you won't have any problems with your speedo or traction control, etc.

One thing that you should realize is that the RX does not like snow or slippery conditions. It is a sports car. If you get any amount of the slippery on the road you really need to leave it parked nice and snuggy in the garage.

The rear-end is so light I am not sure tossing a couple of bags of sand in the trunk would help...tire studs or chains maybe...but not many communities like those items anymore.

Omicron

Well, I respectfully disagree. On snowpacked roads with some ice, they have been fine. I get around as well as most of the SUVs and FWD cars are. No better, no worse. And Colorado gets some plenty cruddy roads. I have not tried them on pure ice though, nor will I if I can avoid it, because nothing short of metal studded snow tires work on pure ice.

Dlrosie

Did I miss something? You state above that ".....at least CLOSE to the OEM Bridgestones..." I thought everyone said the PZeros were much, much better than the B'stones.

doccable

Well now... I guess I'll chime in on this one... Even though I've only had the PZeros on my 8 for about a month now, and have only driven a couple of hundred miles on them, I can say that they are definitely better than the Bridgestones. Although I haven't tried to "test" them out on snowy roads I have had the opportunity to try them on cold, wet road surfaces and these do perform better than the OEMs ever did. I was always nervous with the Potenzas, because they were really not "happy", (so to speak), on road surfaces that were cold. I won't even start in about the 1/4" of snow that I got stuck on, (with the OEMs), and threw a CEL. But as Omicron said, these are not snow tires - he (like me), got them so that in the event that if he was out somewheres and found himself in a situation with a sudden snow storm, he'd at least be able to get back home, and in his garage, (I think he mentioned that somewhere early on in this thread).
-Doccable

mlx8

Omicron, I've been told, after making a somewhat similar observation to the instructors up at the Bridgestone/Toyota Winter Driving School up in Steamboat (www.winterdrive.com), that this may no longer be true with some of the newer winter tire compounds that are available. I spent last week in Seefeld Austria in an Audi Performance Winter Drive program using the new Audi 2.0 A4 AWD. Audi's school cars were equiped with Michelin "Invulda" studed snows (tread looks like what in the US market is being called the Ice-X.) The BWDS school vehicles (mostly 2005 Toyota 4Runners) have been out fitted with Blizzak Winter Duelers - no studs. The BWDS instructors (and they apparently do some of the tire testing for
Bridgestone) said that outside of a very narrow temperature range, and that being @ 32°F or 0°C or where ever your local highway departments particular chemical concoction has put the freezing point for the slush/water on the road, the new winter compounds are basically just as effective as studs as far a traction is concerned. Sounds implausibel, but that was their story, and they're sticking to it.

HTH someone.
mike

VBprogrammer666

I get my M+S's installed on Tuesday, Feb 1 (and Tuesday can't come soon enough for me). Based on what I've read on this thread, I think it's just a matter of perception and what we expect from our replacement tires. For me, I just want to know that I have some level of control in even minimally poor winter conditions. I think the M+S will give me this control.

For me, I appreciate everyone's point of view on the tires. I know that I would have no idea what tires to choose if it weren't for this thread.

By the way, I'm bringing a copy of the Mazda TSB on how to deal with the TPMS when changing tires. I spoke with the installer and they were very receptive to my bringing the TSB - I was a bit worried they might get defensive, like I was telling them how to do their job.

I'll post back when I've had a chance to try out the tires in some less than ideal conditions.

Thanks to all!!

Omicron

Yep... the bit about "on dry roads."

On slick roads, the Pirellis are FAR superior to the Bridgestones, which are like ice skates.

Omicron

Well now that's certainly interesting, and it will be even more so to see if this proves true in the "real world." Good find! I also notice they were comparing an AWD sedan with studded tires versus a 4WD SUV though... and at the least there is a difference in vehicle weight. Might be marketing hype, might be true. Time will tell.

In the mean time, I'm happy with my PZeros. :D

Omicron

Thanks for chiming in here, Doc. You'll have to let us know how it goes when you do wind up out in the next major storm.

Raevik

Again, I just want to make clear I'm NOT suggesting that the PZeroes are poor tires. I never drove the OEM tires on snow, so I don't know how bad they are. I DO have experience driving Bridgestone Pole Position S02's on the snow, and can tell you it was a nightmare.

However, I thought that a 7.6 rating at Tire Rack would mean that they would do reasonably well. I figured this meant as long as I wasn't stupid with them (slamming on the brakes or trying to take off hard from a stop) I could drive normally in light snow or packed snow conditions. I don't expect to take a turn at 40 mph on the snow with them, but as it stands I slide quite easily with the PZeroes.

Some examples:

On a reasonably flat residential street with <1" of packed snow, if I apply the brakes moderately from 25 mph, I slide after about 10mph of deceleration.

On the same flat residental street with the same <1" of packed snow, if I accelerate moderately (30% of WOT, perhaps), I spin tires and move forward very slowly with the TCS light on.

On a moderate incline, starting from a stopped position on packed snow meant ZERO control with heavy rear-end sliding and the ***-end of the car drifting 30 degrees off center from the lane.

None of my driving thus far with the PZeroes has been on true ice...just packed (light to heavy) snow. The treads simply loaded up with packed snow and became smooth surfaces to spin against the packed snow on the road. Again, I'd put my confidence with normal driving on these tires in snowy conditions at about a 4 out of 10 or so. Better than summer tires, definitely, but not really super confidence inducing.

VBprogrammer666

Got the M+S's installed Tuesday. So far so good. I can't tell much of difference between the stocks and these tires on dry pavement - that's a good thing for me. Waiting for the next bout of bad weather for the real test.

Interesting thing about the install -
I got the tires from Tire Rack and had them installed at the Front End Shop in Farmingdale, NJ. Front End Shop discovered during the install that one of the tires is out of spec on the roll-out. Not really sure what that means - but I do know that Tire Rack and the Front End shop are taking care of me very nicely.

Front End shop called Tire Rack and arranged to have a replacement tire sent out right away. For now I'm driving on the out of spec tire (no danger, they tell me) and when the new one comes all I do is go to Front End shop and they swap out the tire.

Very smooth, customer friendly resolution of a problem all taken care of directly between Tire Rack and Front End Shop.

I asked the Front End Shop how often they come across out of spec tires. They told me about 1 in every 15 tires is out of spec in some way. If that's anywhere near accurate, that's pretty dismal quality control by the tire companies. Scary.

Tire Rack and Front End shop - highly recommended!

fredw1

My experience has been much the same. Not as good as I hoped, but better than OEM.

VBprogrammer666

Got my first experience driving on the M+S's in the snow this morning. Ocean County, NJ: 32 degrees out, snowing pretty hard, about 1" of snow on the non-highway roads.

Results: Much better than the stock RE040's. On the stocks, I couldn't even move on the same amount of snow. The M+S's got me going, gave reasonable traction (a little sliding - not bad) and felt much more stable than the stocks. Not snow tire like performance, of course, but not life-threatening like the stocks.

Exactly what I expected and I am very satisfied.

Omicron

Very cool. This has been my experience with them too.

Charles Cope

I'm sold. Recent mild weather in western Michigan has me itching to take my 8 out of hibernation, early. I contacted my dealer about costs to mount/balance the Pirelli's and found that they can't handle wheels with tire pressure sensors and are quite aware of how easy it is to break them. They suggested Discount or Belle Tire. I've had really good luck with Belle, so I checked with them first. They do a high volume in custom wheels, up to 24", and have no problems with pressure sensors. They just got some new Michelen machine that removes the tire without touching the rim - sounds pretty neat!

Price - Tire Rack currently shows $150 ea and shipping to Alto would be $36. I figured about $120+ for mounting. Belle's quote is $786, complete. Its $60 for the lifetime balance, rotate, flat repair, replacement policy. They admitted they would probably get them from Tire Rack and about 1-2 days from request to in-stock.

Unless the forecast changes, I'll probably be on the road next week!

Omicron

Excellent - keep us posted! :D

r2s2

Just got my 8 on 2/2/05, and because of the weather here haven't been able to drive her much. Am therefore considering the Pirellis. I know the question was asked earlier in this thread, but thought I'd ask if there are any new observations or updates: has anyone with the Pirellis noticed any effect on mileage? Thanks.

Omicron

No change one way or t'other on mileage that I could detect.