Omicron

LOL... my "tire Norelco" was my 11 year old son who made the mistake of telling me he was bored one day. My tires are now stubble free. :D

Omicron

Not to worry, I didn't take it that way either. Just wanted to word my response strongly enough that you'd realize I wasn't BSing you. SWEET! Now you GOTTA get on this thread after you get them and let us know how right we all are! :D

StewC625

Today is the first day of anything other than cold-dry weather that I've had a chance to drive them ... it's warm and rainy in Chicago today.

Wet traction - very good! Wet/salty traction (normally a very slippery combo) very good too!

Stew

Omicron

For anyone who missed this, I finally got a chance to drive these tires on icy/snow packed roads. They are great on that too! Check 2 pages or so up for the review.

fredw1

I plan to get some Pirelli PZero Nero M&S tires this week. I was wondering if anyone who has these already has noticed a change in mileage as a result of the wider tires compared to stock.

doccable

Just took a recent trip, (about 250 miles), and no difference as far as MPG. Forgot to take the GPS with me to verify the MPH difference. As soon as I do, I will post.

Omicron

Just an update:

I've had several opportunities of late to drive my RX-8 on truly nasty roads with these Pirellis, and I have to say my initial impression still holds - these tires are great on slick roads. I suppose "true" winter tires would be better, but with these I have at least equal if not better traction in my '8 as I have driving my wife's Mazda 6S.

Ti Driver

Want to second Omicron's opinion about the Pirelli's! I had my first try in inclement weather driving on icy roads from the recent freezing rains here in NJ. I was quite pleased with the tires in the icy stuff but I still have not had a chance to evaluate snow performance.

Also, just as Omicron had predicted, these tires have firmed up compared to the squishy feel when I first put them on (see original post below). After a few hundred miles, they do seem to have firmed up, although that could be due to the power of suggestion as well as a fading memory of the OEM feel. However, still no match for the razor response of the OEM Potenza's. I would chalk that up an added half inch of tire due to the 17 inch wheels.

I bought these tires on the recommendation of Omicron and others. I couldn't be happier. Dry performance is great, trading in a little turn-in for a little less harshness. Light winter weather seems fine so far. Overall, a good compromise for someone who wants to drive in light winter weather but does not have to drive in the heavy stuff and still wants great dry performance.

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below posted in November:

Pirelli PZero Nero M&S 235/45-17

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Bought a set of PZero Nero M&S for the winter season. I wanted to give a little review since I have had them on for a couple of weeks now.

I had TireRack mount these tires on new wheels - Kazera KZ-T. Not the best-looking wheel but the price was cheap and they had two desirable qualities: light weight and 48mm offset. Wheels are advertised to weight 19.4 pounds. I wanted an offset that closely matched the 50mm stock measurement so that feel of the setup would closely match stock. I was hoping for an 8in wide wheel but they are not that typical, particularly in the 17in diameter that I chose to keep the price down. This wheel is 7.5in wide and I had some concern about a 235mm tire width, but the 7.5in was in the acceptable range according to TR's spec page. Another reason I chose a 17in wheel is that there are precious few High Performance All-Season tires in an appropriate 18in diameter size. You can get a pretty good selection at 245/40-18, but that was wider than I wanted to go for a winter tire option.

I chose the Pirelli after see good reviews both here and on the TR site. Went with the 235/45 instead of the 245/40 again because I didn't a significantly wider tire than stock for winter use.

First impressions: Wheel is barely smaller in diameter as compared to stock, maybe 2/10ths of an inch. Speedo should be around 1% off, no sweat. I had anticipated this as the Pirelli seems to have the largest diameter of all the 235/45-17 tires listed on the TR rack site. From appearance perspective, hard to tell that the 7.5in wheel width was the bottom of the acceptable range. I have a hard time believing that this tire could be mounted on a wheel 2 inches wider, 7.5 looks like the perfect wheel width. Tire/wheel combo is noticeably lighter than stock, maybe three to four pounds lighter; I didn't get a scale out.

Driving impressions: Immediately noticeable that the car feels more "squishy" now. Best way to describe the feel is to imagine the wheels twisting within the tire in a side-to-side manner, not rotationally. I believe that is a result of the half-inch greater sidewall on the 17s. I also suspect that the sidewall is not as firm as the stock tire. I have gone to a higher pressure (38 PSI) but I can still feel the "squish". Something to look forward to when I put the summer Bridgestone's back on. Grip seems very good and cold days are not a problem now. One advantage is that these tires are not as harsh over road irregularities; I guess "squishy" does have an upside. Wet grip is very good, but I have not had a chance to drive in snow yet. Stay tuned.

A quick note on the Bridgestones: Rotate! I had not rotated my tires yet, 8,000 miles in 11 months. The rears were noticeably more worn than the fronts. Also, having driven an RX-8 through last year's winter on the Potenzas (albeit with another car at my disposal for wintry days) I will reiterate what everyone already knows - Potenzas cannot be used in the slightest of snow. They are also quite slippery in the cold - until warmed up. When it got down to the teens, I could feel the tires were so stiff that they were out of round, but a couple of miles would warm them up and dry grip would be no problem. Problem was that I picked up my RX-8 December 1st last year and by the time I realize that some other tire was required for the winter, there was not much selection left. I limped through the winter on the summer tires but vowed not to do that again. I had to force my self to leave the RX-8 at home on wintry days, and that is tough to do with any new car, particularly one as wonderful as the RX-8.

StewC625

An update from me as well. I have about 700 miles on the new tires now. The mold release compound has worn off (along with most of the fuzzies), and on dry they stick like glue. I agree with Ti here ... slight reduction in turn-in crispness, but an increase in overall grip.

My other dry pavement note is that they seem to be much more progressive in terms of "at the limit" handling - you get more feedback as they are reaching their limit (but not squeal or noise - just a noticable sensation of being at the outer limit of traction) and they break free more progressively. I always had the sensation with the RE040s that when they would break free, they'd go straight from stick to slide with no warning and would spit me inot the weeds.

Snow handling: Well, if you follow the weather channel at all, you'll note that Chicago got HAMMERED this week with snow - about 14" in our area. Lucky me, I was out of town during most of it, and my RX-8 was safely ensconced in valet parking at O'Hare Airport. But, I got home Thursday afternoon, and while everything else was nicely plowed, my street had had only one pass on it when I got home - about 3" of loose, tracked up snow - I actually was excited about it. And they were terrific in it. No issues with the nose not knowing which way to go, the braking and starting traction were fine, and with the DSC/Traction control, it drove great. Definitely a terrific solution for wintry driving. I don't think I'd like to try to negotiate a mountain pass in 6" of fresh powder, but hey, that's not what I drive in around here.

Stew

fredw1

The first snow in my 8. We got 6 inches today and my drive home on partially plowed streets and on my own non-plowed street was not quite as good as I expected with this car and these tires. On one section of partially plowed road, my 8 decided it wanted to drift with no prodding from me (I was in 3rd gear). I took it slow the rest of the way (slower than I would have gone in my Civic Si with RE910 all-seasons). When I got home, I could barely make up my driveway even after I shoveled all but 1/4 inch that was stuck to the concrete.

I'm a bit disappointed. The combination of RWD and these tires was worse than what I had with FWD and RE910s. Based upon comments here, I guess I expected more. I'll get another chance on the way to work tomorrow.

Some will say I should have gotten snow tires, but Cincinnati is not exactly in the snow belt, and I decided I didn't want them for the ten or less days each winter when snow is a problem. If it gets really bad, I'll drive my 4WD Tacoma.

StewC625

I've been happy with mine in snow as deep as 3". Tonight's the litmus test. We're supposed to get a foot.

mdmaclean

Do you have traction control on your RX-8? I find that that makes it simpler to drive in the winter, with less concern about oversteer. That said, I also have snow tires

claude4

I just ordered a set of PZero Nero M&S 245/40WR18 to put on my stock rims from tirerack.com

Funny thing is I noticed that they had these listed twice on their site for the same $150 each. One listing said in stock, the other said special order so I called.

The sales rep., Alex I believe, said the in stock ones were the new model with an improved tread pattern; the special order was the old version.

I ordered 4 wheels of the in stock version.

Go figure!

Claude H.

Raevik

So far.....not impressed at all.

That doesn't mean I've come across anything terrible, or that I think the tires are poor. I am literally just not impressed.

The ride with these new tires on was not drastically different as many people on this thread have claimed. The handling and cornering is virtually identical to OEM. Still...I wasn't to be daunted. After all, I got these tires as a performance alternative to swapping out snow tires.

We got 2 inches here in NoVA 2 days ago. I got through the flat areas of the metro area with minimal tire spinning. Hardly inspiring, but so far so good. Then I got into some traffic and on an incline.

I had to stop. You know what that means.

I OH SO GENTLY applied some gas and immediatley my tires broke loose. TCS light turned on and stayed on and my tires just spun and spun on that hill. The ***-end of my car drifted about 30 degrees off center to the right...and my poor RX8 just crawled up the hill a few inches at a time.

Not exactly the snow performance I was hoping for.

To be fair, as soon as I got going, a Jeep Cherokee 4x4 right behind me spun out on the same hill.

So, final thoughts...the conditions were bad. While the depth of the snow wasn't much (2 inches or so), it was packed down hard and formed an ice-slick type surface when combined with just enough snow to fill up your treads. Despite that, I was hoping for more. We'll see if it was just the hill and specific conditions, or if it basically sucks everywhere.

fredw1

I did have the traction control and the DSC on.

army_rx8

i'm jealous i couldn't even get up a hill in m y8 on that day (and it had ben plowed)..I had to leave my car for a day until the snow melted enough i coul ddrive her. so i may of sucked for you that day but it was horrible for me and my crappy oem non-all season potenzas:p

VBprogrammer666

Just great, I read all these glowing reviews of the PZero M+S and I order a set from Tire Rack after spinning out on Rt. 287 South in N.J. during a 1" snow storm last week on the stock RE040's. Now people are saying they're maybe not so great.

C'mon the PZero M+S have got to be better than the stocks in snow. Right???

Just a sidetrack, is anyone playing Burnout 3 on Xbox? The only thing that could make this game better would be running an RX-8 during a Road Rage race!! (Sorry, I'm not trying to hijack this thread)

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

I have the PZero M+S on my car. They are much better than the RE40's. Is there wheel spin, yes. Hell your driving on snow and ice for gods sake. Don't worry about the Pirelli's. You'll find you'll be able to go, stop and turn in snow. We just got 12" of the stuff in the last day.

fredw1

Even though I had a bad experience with them, I know they have to better than the OEMs. I drove ultra high-performance tires in the snow one time about 5 years ago, and will never do that again. While I made it home with the Pirelli's with a little slipping, and traction was not as good as I expected based upon others' reports, I never would have been able to get very far with the OEMs. I also think that traction is not as good as it would have been in a FWD car with the same tires. I'm still refamiliarizing myself with RWD after 15 or so tears of FWD, and this may have been a factor in my feeling a bit uneasy with the PZero's.

BK93

Taka, stay away from the P zero rosso, I have had terrible luck with these tires as they came as standard equipment on my 03 Saab 9-3SS. Thye wear out at about 12000 miles in the center regardless of pressure. I ran them at the listed pressure and the center 3 bands are bald while the cornering bands still have a lot of life. Run them down a couple of pounds (thought the shape was rounding under increased temp/pressure at speed) and they continue to do the same.

Omicron

Ok, we've got 2 people who have not written glowing reviews of these tires out of probably a couple of dozen (at least!) who have. Now because I kicked this whole thing off, I feel compelled to defend them.


These tires are NOT going to make you RX-8 drive like you've suddenly added 3000 Lbs and spiked tank treads to it. They're NOT going to make it into the ultimate winter driving vehicle, completely impervious to the roads regardless of how slick, icy, or snowpacked they are.

What they WILL do is give you dry road performance that is at least CLOSE to the OEM Bridgestones that come on the car, and ride somewhat nicer and quieter to boot. They will ALSO give you some measure of winter driveability that the OEM Bridgestones do not. Dedicated snow tires WILL be better than these tires if you live in a climate that requires them, assuming you're willing to (a) buy an extra set of wheels for the snow tires, (b) put up with the drawbacks of snow tires and (c) are willing to swap out your wheels twice a year. I wasn't.

And finally, please note that if all other things are equal, NO rear wheel drive sports car be as good as most front whel drive car on bad roads. FWD have most of their weight on the driving/steering wheels, while RWD cars like the RX-8 do not.

fredw1

I appreciate the response, Omicron. I agree with all your points. There were a few people who had made remarks such as "I was cruising along, watching all these 4WD SUVs on the side of the road". These raised my expectations, probably above reasonable. The fact that 50% of the weight was over the rear wheels led me to believe that traction might be closer to FWD. My disappointment was therefore the result of high and possibly unreasonable expectations. In any event, I did get home, and I'm not going to trash the tires based upon one experience.

I trust that the people who pointed me in the direction of these tires knew what the tires could do (and the key here is in the next few words) relative to similar tires on an RX-8. I suspect that the PZero Nero M&S is above average for this category, and for that reason I am still glad I bought them.

VBprogrammer666

Thanks Omicron and Fredw1 for your recent posts. You've helped clarify things for me and make me feel better about my PZero M+S purchase.

I know I'm not going to get snow tire performance with the M+S or even the equivalent perfomance to a FWD drive with similar tires. But, I just want to know that I'm not going to have that terrifying feeling that I could lose control at any moment even in minimally bad winter conditions like I have with the stock tires. And I think your posts confirm that.

Omicron

Happy to help... sorry if I sounded grumpy.

takahashi

Interesting ... it is unfortunate.

Thanks for the head up buddy.