justin_jag

I test drove an RX8 this morning. The sales monkey gave me the keys to a cold car, I fired the car up and immediately shut it down. There was a moment of panic on the sales guys face but fortunately the car started.

After the test drive I spoke with a shop mechanic for reassurances about flooding problems. He suggested following the proceedures in the manual, but said it's typically not a problem.

The car is so damm fun to drive I've lost complete objectivity. If following proceedures and the slight risk of flooding are the price of entry so be it. I'm hooked, my car comes in on Friday!

- Justin

1 bad 7

Well, after staying up until almost 7am this morning researching the 8 and the new Mazda 3, I headed up to the dealer today and started talking. I'm still torn between being "responsible" and "practical" or getting what I really want, whether it's an 8, a WRX, etc, but I wanted to start looking at them more closely and do some drivin'.

LOVED the 8 - no big surprise there. Just like my 7, once you get in and start driving you kind of forget about anything else than finding the next open road...probably spent 30 minutes at least on the test drive (sales girl was cute, too, so that was a bonus )

The 3 was really nice, too...especially given the price. I test drove the 4-door S model. Seemed kind of sluggish after the 8, but it was pretty fun to drive still, and handles really well. Very cramped on foot space, though, which surprised me. My left foot hit the foot rest every time I pushed in the clutch. The 8 was actually more comfortable because of that.

Comparing the 8 to my 7...hard to say since the 7 hasn't run right since May 02! The biggest difference was ride quality/stability. Much smoother, without the constant jerking of the wheel with every little rut in the road, and very solid feel to it. Handles awesome, as most people on here already know :D I did kind of miss the low end "oomph" of the sequential turbo system on the 7, but was really impressed with throttle response and the oh-so-familiar rush of accelleration as RPMs increase...and the sound!!!

Overall, very impressed with both the 3 and the 8, but obviously more so with the 8. Still concerned about the flooding thing, but I will admit it's not as much of an issue now that I've driven one.

Sigh. Decisions decisions decisions.... Thanks for the feedback - this forum rocks as much as the RX7 one!

8_wannabe

Now that's funny. Did he bother saying anything to you about flooding (and did you play dumb) or did he try to keep his panic to himself while secretly crossing his fingers that the '8 would start a second time? I don't thing the salesmen are being very forthcoming about the flooding issue.

justin_jag

The sales guy was clearly concerned. He didn't say anything but his expression said it all. The service guy was very honest about the problem. He's worked on several cars that had been stranded on the lot.

I ended up buying the car because of the honesty of the service guy.

- Justin

CERAMICSEAL

One more time, for those of you who missed it. A key part of the problem is cranking speed or lack thereof. The battery's state of charge is almost always to bame for this condition. If you feel inclined to purchase an 8, by all means do so. Once this is done have your battery trickle charged to ensure full and deep charge. This is never a bad or detrimental procedure, and is most beneficial when a battery is new.

MEGAREDS

Best way to do this is...? Someone else recommended buying the TRUECHARGE 20+ , but that seems like a pricey solution.

graphicguy

ceramicseal....I wasn't aware that anything definitive has been shown that it's, either partially or wholly, a battery issue. Have you had a dealer tech tell you this?

CERAMICSEAL

Hey graphic, how's it going? I'm actually speaking from experience. It's actually partially to blame. If a fuel injected rotary engine vehicle has up to parr compression, is in a proper state of tune ( which includes plugs that are not worn or fouled) it will start and restart in cold conditions; provided it is able to crank with sufficient speed ( Mazda seems to think 250rpms is good, I wish it was higher). Mazda has so far attacked this from one angle : the ignition angle, replacing leading plugs with hotter (heat range) spark plugs. We'll see how well that measure works over time.
I've recently heard it said that when flooded, if the battery is below a certain voltage the PCM goes into a mode that will not allow the throttle to achieve more than 25% opening; defeating Mazda's suggested method of de-flooding. If this is true, it may further explain the extra degree of difficulty that flooded 8 owners have been experiencing. I'm also a proponent of the theory relating the port configuration (exhaust) with some added trouble when already flooded.

graphicguy

ceramicseal...

Thanks for the info. While your explanation sounds plausible and I was aware of Mazda putting in "hot" plugs to address, I'll assume there isn't any affirmation from Mazda that these theories are correct.

CERAMICSEAL

In that assumption, you would be correct my friend.

graphicguy

ceramicseal....while I have never experienced any flooding, regardless of weather, temps or warm-up procedure (or lack thereof), I have had mine take a bit longer to crank before firing.

I'm wondering, as with piston engines that aren't tuned well (and in turn keep cranking without actually starting), if it is a problem with faulty plugs or wiring that doesn't deliver the necessary "juice" to the plugs? To me, at any rate, it seems those that have problems aren't getting enough "spark" to fire up the RENESIS.

rosenmeyer

I'm in the market for a new sports car. I basically limited the two cars I am considering to the Mazda RX-8 and the 350Z. I consider myself a particular guy, and I always buy cars that are known for reliability. From what I've been read on this thread on flooding, that even if the RX-8 has only flooded with a small percentage of users (>10%), this seems to me to be a potential needless inconvenience to owning this car to say the least. I want a car I know will start all the time, and I won’t have to be overly concerned with stalling or forgetting to let the engine warm up before shutting down. This is not the 1930s where this type of behavior was common in a car! I understand this is an inherent issue with the rotorary engine, but the problem seems more than just a small issue that can be ignored. I'm actually disappointed, yet relieved I found this site/thread. A buddy at work who loves Mazda’s and owns an RX-7 mentioned to me to check this site out. before making a purchase. He said he had some concerns with the new engine design. I had my financing in order, signed up for the Ford S-plan through my employee for under invoice pricing and was already to buy in the next week. So, unless I'm misreading all these posts, which I doubt I am, I will be buying the new 350Z instead. That is to bad because I liked both cars a lot, but the Mazda was my favorite. I’m not going to buy the car that was my favorite, since it appears not to be as reliable as a new car should be. I’m sure other posters will disagree with me, but how can you truly argue against all the people that have had to deal with this unfortunate experience? I buy Japanese cars that I take into the shop no more than five times a year (four of the times are for oil changes). In my experience since I work in the technology field, going with a new expensive technology (in this case a new car model) is never a good idea until they can work the kinks out. Too bad.

Last_D8

To each his own. I hope you enjoy it as much as we enjoy our
RX-8s.

Rgds, Mark

graphicguy

rosenmeyer....Good luck with your purchase...keep a careful eye on the suspension/tires on the 350Z.

Lovin' my 8.

jonalan

Dude, take your buddy's advice one step further and check out the 350Z forums before you buy, as well!

graphicguy

Gotta love those posters who come in here with one post and say something like "...hey, I really like the RX8 but (pick an issue reporting a problem some people are having), so I'll be buying a (pick one...350Z/G35/BMW, etc).

If they made up their mind to buy something else, regardless of reason, why do they come here to post?

martinl78

For what it's worth, last November when my RX-8 flooded, I remarked to the dealer about the battery seeming weak. It tested weak the first week I had the car (August). After much pleading and complaining, Mazda finally agreed to replace the battery. The battery they replaced it with is like a 525cca vs the 400cca that was in there originally. I've not observed any sluggish starts, even in cold weather. I have even intentionally tried to get it to flood and it hasn't.

The only thing I suspect still is that sometimes when the engine is cold I notice after starting that the RPMs oscillate between about 1200-2000 for about 30 seconds. I suspect that if you killed the engine while it was revving like this that it might get too much fuel in there and flood it.

Anybody else observed anything like this when the engine is cold and at idle?

1 bad 7

I'd be interested to see a second poll: Have you flooded your engine more than once? Maybe it's just me, but it seems that it has only happened to most people once (which actually makes me feel a little better!).

8_wannabe

Great minds thing alike: Look here. This is one big reason why I still don't worry about flooding.

1 bad 7

Interesting indeed...

MyLadyDeb

when I was talking to the service guy he told me about that problem before it ever happened to me. I did notice a couple of times that it didn't start on the first crank but did on the second try. He said that the fuel floods the engine very quickly on the start up and if you don't let it run a few minutes and turn it off the fuel will flood the engine. Had alot of them come into the service department for that reason. Now they know to tell their customers about it. They're pretty green on the automatics.

Last_D8

To MyLadyDeb...

please define what a "crank" is...also please quantify how many is the "lots" that your dealer has seen come in for flooding.

I am not just screwing with you but really would like to seperate fact from fiction and rumor.

Rgds, Mark

flatso

You would think if the flooding is such an issue the dealers will be the ones complaining the most to Mazda. From unloading the cars from the truck to moving them around their lots most of their driving is very short distance. I can't imagine them putting up with flooded vehicles all over their lots or running the cars for 10 minutes before every time they move them.

graphicguy

I'm curious to hear of any of those who had flooding issues feel the issue was resolved once their dealer installed "hot plugs"?

Arthur

I had the "hot plugs" installed about 6 weeks ago and I haven't flooded since but I've also been VERY careful about cold starts.

In addition, when I checked my oil this morning, it reeked of gasoline (it was changed after the flooding incident). I have to take it in again to get that checked out. My guess is that it is related to the flooding issue, but I'll wait to see what the dealer says.

This is getting old.