View Poll Results: Have you flooded your Renesis?
YES
1,350
54.88%
NO
1,110
45.12%
Voters: 2460. You may not vote on this poll
Engine Flooding Info/Questions
02-20-2004, 07:53 AM
#251
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Originally posted by RX8_GT
The stock battery seems quite minimalist. ? Part of the problem
The stock battery seems quite minimalist. ? Part of the problem
rx8cited
02-20-2004, 08:27 PM
#252
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02-20-2004, 08:46 PM
#253
VW coulda had it...
No flooding in about 7400 miles. Nor do I expect to or want to flood the engine! I flooded my '79 RX7 just before putting it away for winter storage years ago, (yeah, short running time, no warm up) and it's not something I care to do again.
I'm keeping factory flood prevention procedures in mind; are most of the people with flooding problems?
I'm keeping factory flood prevention procedures in mind; are most of the people with flooding problems?
02-22-2004, 11:00 AM
#254
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Ok on the battery issue, one of the quickest way to flood a rotary is not having enough cranking speed. Automatics have always had the problem. In the past I've had automatic cars towed in that were flooded really bad and put 24 volts to the starter only and bang it started up. Now that was under shop conditions and not recommended for the public. It proved the point. You must always remember that the rotor only turns at one third the speed of the shaft. So at cranking speed the rotor is moving very slow.The other problem the rotary engine has that piston engines don't have is how the fuel charge is introduced to the combustion chamber. The primary injectors are on the opposite side of the engine from the spark plugs. The rotor has to sweep the incoming charge all the way over to the spark plugs. By then the charge has lost alot of its atomization. That is the charge has gone back to a more raw fuel state, which is harder to light off. And on top of that the first place it goes is into the trailing spark plug hole. As the apex seal crosses over the trailing hole there is a small built in leak from one chamber to the other. The slower the rotor moves the worst the problem And that spark plug is actually the second spark not the first. I never did understand why Mazda put such a cold spark plug into the trailing position since "86. The previous rotaries had the same heat range spark plugs leading and trailing.
I'm probably getting to deep into rotary engine dynamics. If you could actually see a rotor and rotor housing it becomes quite clear. I always had one around the shop to demonstrate to customers. Which is my final point, I think all this talk should be handled at the dealership level. I've alwaws thought to sell rotaries you should know rotaries. Unfortunately it's just another car sale and the same salesman is never there . Mazda dealerships have a captive audience and don't capitalize on it. Mazda should have sales training rotary car sales. Then the sales people could chage jobs and be rotary qualified at the next store.
Oh well!!
I'm probably getting to deep into rotary engine dynamics. If you could actually see a rotor and rotor housing it becomes quite clear. I always had one around the shop to demonstrate to customers. Which is my final point, I think all this talk should be handled at the dealership level. I've alwaws thought to sell rotaries you should know rotaries. Unfortunately it's just another car sale and the same salesman is never there . Mazda dealerships have a captive audience and don't capitalize on it. Mazda should have sales training rotary car sales. Then the sales people could chage jobs and be rotary qualified at the next store.
Oh well!!
02-22-2004, 12:50 PM
#255
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Originally posted by skip gorman
Ok on the battery issue, one of the quickest way to flood a rotary is not having enough cranking speed. Automatics have always had the problem. In the past I've had automatic cars towed in that were flooded really bad and put 24 volts to the starter only and bang it started up. Now that was under shop conditions and not recommended for the public. It proved the point. You must always remember that the rotor only turns at one third the speed of the shaft. So at cranking speed the rotor is moving very slow.The other problem the rotary engine has that piston engines don't have is how the fuel charge is introduced to the combustion chamber. The primary injectors are on the opposite side of the engine from the spark plugs. The rotor has to sweep the incoming charge all the way over to the spark plugs. By then the charge has lost alot of its atomization. That is the charge has gone back to a more raw fuel state, which is harder to light off. And on top of that the first place it goes is into the trailing spark plug hole. As the apex seal crosses over the trailing hole there is a small built in leak from one chamber to the other. The slower the rotor moves the worst the problem And that spark plug is actually the second spark not the first. I never did understand why Mazda put such a cold spark plug into the trailing position since "86. The previous rotaries had the same heat range spark plugs leading and trailing.
I'm probably getting to deep into rotary engine dynamics. If you could actually see a rotor and rotor housing it becomes quite clear. I always had one around the shop to demonstrate to customers. Which is my final point, I think all this talk should be handled at the dealership level. I've alwaws thought to sell rotaries you should know rotaries. Unfortunately it's just another car sale and the same salesman is never there . Mazda dealerships have a captive audience and don't capitalize on it. Mazda should have sales training rotary car sales. Then the sales people could chage jobs and be rotary qualified at the next store.
Oh well!!
Ok on the battery issue, one of the quickest way to flood a rotary is not having enough cranking speed. Automatics have always had the problem. In the past I've had automatic cars towed in that were flooded really bad and put 24 volts to the starter only and bang it started up. Now that was under shop conditions and not recommended for the public. It proved the point. You must always remember that the rotor only turns at one third the speed of the shaft. So at cranking speed the rotor is moving very slow.The other problem the rotary engine has that piston engines don't have is how the fuel charge is introduced to the combustion chamber. The primary injectors are on the opposite side of the engine from the spark plugs. The rotor has to sweep the incoming charge all the way over to the spark plugs. By then the charge has lost alot of its atomization. That is the charge has gone back to a more raw fuel state, which is harder to light off. And on top of that the first place it goes is into the trailing spark plug hole. As the apex seal crosses over the trailing hole there is a small built in leak from one chamber to the other. The slower the rotor moves the worst the problem And that spark plug is actually the second spark not the first. I never did understand why Mazda put such a cold spark plug into the trailing position since "86. The previous rotaries had the same heat range spark plugs leading and trailing.
I'm probably getting to deep into rotary engine dynamics. If you could actually see a rotor and rotor housing it becomes quite clear. I always had one around the shop to demonstrate to customers. Which is my final point, I think all this talk should be handled at the dealership level. I've alwaws thought to sell rotaries you should know rotaries. Unfortunately it's just another car sale and the same salesman is never there . Mazda dealerships have a captive audience and don't capitalize on it. Mazda should have sales training rotary car sales. Then the sales people could chage jobs and be rotary qualified at the next store.
Oh well!!
02-23-2004, 05:55 AM
#256
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So far my car has started fine in cold weather. I avoid having too many electrical things (lights, fan, seat heaters, window/mirror defrosters) at the same time when I am making short drives in cold weather. I don't know about the RX-8 charging system, but I have been told that some/many cars can't keep up with full electrical load at low speeds.
Is it possible the battery's capacity is diminished by too much draw from these appliances and not enough slow speed and short trip charging capacity ... making the engine more prone to flood?
Is it possible the battery's capacity is diminished by too much draw from these appliances and not enough slow speed and short trip charging capacity ... making the engine more prone to flood?
02-27-2004, 02:53 AM
#257
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Today i tried to start my car...didn't start for like 2 seconds i thought i had flooded it and finally it started after like 3 seconds...i was like NICE! but i don't understand why it would almost flood i never drive short distances and i don't go lite on my RPM's...i let it warm up before driving it and i rev it a little like 20 seconds before turning it off..?
02-28-2004, 11:28 PM
#258
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Maybe the flooding problem is not to do with the gas... If the seals of the engine don´t close properly some oil can get into the chambers (of course the colder the engine is the worst the seals close so the enters more oil)and that would explain that much oil in the plugs and the smell of gas in the oil... That is only a theory, but if its true then those cars that have flooded may use more oil than others. It would be intresting to compare the oil that consume the cars that don´t have problems with the rest of them...
Sory for my English...
Sory for my English...
02-29-2004, 11:44 PM
#259
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i purchased my 8 in nov. 03 and have had it flood once, which i guess caused my converter to get red hot. then the check engine light came on after i got it back from the dealership. they had to reprogram the engine control module, for whatever reason. the tech guy and i were talking and he seemed to think thats why it flooded, because the code that came in was for the o2 sensor not comunicating with the computer. then i find out about the service bulletins which most of them affect my car. im kinda disappointed with all the problems i have had with my car after paying so much money for it. i guess its to be expected with a new model car. any feedback appreciated.
03-01-2004, 12:05 AM
#260
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Originally posted by rx8u-up
then i find out about the service bulletins which most of them affect my car. im kinda disappointed with all the problems i have had with my car after paying so much money for it.
then i find out about the service bulletins which most of them affect my car. im kinda disappointed with all the problems i have had with my car after paying so much money for it.
03-03-2004, 07:06 AM
#261
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I was aware of the flooding issue well before I bought my RX-8, it hasn't been a problem to me so far, below is recent information from Mazda regarding flooding:
(1) Response to 1st email -- Mazda perspective on flooding, any fix, when, existing cars?
Mazda is aware some people have had concerns with their RX-8 flooding
and our Technical Department is currently investigating this.
Unfortunately, at this time I do not have any information advising if
there will be a modification to prevent this. You may want to check
back in the next couple of months as we may have updates at that time.
As you know, when customer's receive their RX-8 they are provided with
a Driver's Guide that has information on preventing flooding in the
vehicle. In most cases we have found that the flooding has been due to
customers not following this procedure. My best recommendation would
be to follow the procedure in the Driver's Guide and you shouldn't have
a concern with this.
(2) Response to 2nd email -- What about valet, etc, drivers that don't know about flooding?
Please understand the RX-8 is a truly unique sportscar. Not only is the
styling and design different, but it is also powered by a completely
different type of engine. Undoubtedly, you must have been attracted by
the uniqueness of the rotary engine as one of the features of the
RX-8. This engine does require unique operating instructions.
Unfortunately, I cannot advise you how to handle other people who may
be driving your vehicle, the best thing I could say is do your best to
make them informed about how to operate your vehicle. Remember your
vehicle is under the factory warranty and you do have Roadside
assistance with that warranty. Should this ever become an issue for
you, Mazda will certainly handle it within the terms of your
warranty.
Rest assured I have documented your comments for our corporate record.
These records are continuously being reviewed by our Product Planning
Department in an effort to provide only the highest quality products to
our customers.
(1) Response to 1st email -- Mazda perspective on flooding, any fix, when, existing cars?
Mazda is aware some people have had concerns with their RX-8 flooding
and our Technical Department is currently investigating this.
Unfortunately, at this time I do not have any information advising if
there will be a modification to prevent this. You may want to check
back in the next couple of months as we may have updates at that time.
As you know, when customer's receive their RX-8 they are provided with
a Driver's Guide that has information on preventing flooding in the
vehicle. In most cases we have found that the flooding has been due to
customers not following this procedure. My best recommendation would
be to follow the procedure in the Driver's Guide and you shouldn't have
a concern with this.
(2) Response to 2nd email -- What about valet, etc, drivers that don't know about flooding?
Please understand the RX-8 is a truly unique sportscar. Not only is the
styling and design different, but it is also powered by a completely
different type of engine. Undoubtedly, you must have been attracted by
the uniqueness of the rotary engine as one of the features of the
RX-8. This engine does require unique operating instructions.
Unfortunately, I cannot advise you how to handle other people who may
be driving your vehicle, the best thing I could say is do your best to
make them informed about how to operate your vehicle. Remember your
vehicle is under the factory warranty and you do have Roadside
assistance with that warranty. Should this ever become an issue for
you, Mazda will certainly handle it within the terms of your
warranty.
Rest assured I have documented your comments for our corporate record.
These records are continuously being reviewed by our Product Planning
Department in an effort to provide only the highest quality products to
our customers.
03-03-2004, 08:19 PM
#262
Still don't have an RX-8
Nobody here has mentioned the best thing about flooding rotaries:
In a few years, there will be people who flood their RX-8s after the warranty runs out and are then sure that the engine is dead, dead, dead.
I look forward to offering them about a thousand dollars to take it off their hands, pouring a little ATF, and driving the car away.
The geometry of the rotary will always leave it vulnerable to this problem, and those of us who love them can learn to adapt to such a little foible. I'm never without an extra set of plugs. Just in case.
In a few years, there will be people who flood their RX-8s after the warranty runs out and are then sure that the engine is dead, dead, dead.
I look forward to offering them about a thousand dollars to take it off their hands, pouring a little ATF, and driving the car away.
The geometry of the rotary will always leave it vulnerable to this problem, and those of us who love them can learn to adapt to such a little foible. I'm never without an extra set of plugs. Just in case.
03-03-2004, 08:30 PM
#263
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Re: Still don't have an RX-8
Originally posted by TimH
I'm never without an extra set of plugs. Just in case.
I'm never without an extra set of plugs. Just in case.
03-03-2004, 08:54 PM
#264
Re: Re: Still don't have an RX-8
Originally posted by MEGAREDS
And what will you do with those plugs? This is the question I'd like answered. It looks to me like one might be able to replace the trailing plugs without much fuss, but the leading plugs are way down low... right? If it were as easy as swapping out the plugs, I'd be carrying them around too.
And what will you do with those plugs? This is the question I'd like answered. It looks to me like one might be able to replace the trailing plugs without much fuss, but the leading plugs are way down low... right? If it were as easy as swapping out the plugs, I'd be carrying them around too.
03-04-2004, 04:52 PM
#266
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this is to 8_wannabe. here is the reprogram that they did, i think because my vin matches the range. not sure if it has anything to do with the emissions or not, but thats what the tech. said it was. check out mil dtc p0128 and/ or p0456
03-04-2004, 06:45 PM
#267
Registered
Re: Still don't have an RX-8
Originally posted by TimH
Nobody here has mentioned the best thing about flooding rotaries:
In a few years, there will be people who flood their RX-8s after the warranty runs out and are then sure that the engine is dead, dead, dead.
I look forward to offering them about a thousand dollars to take it off their hands, pouring a little ATF, and driving the car away.
The geometry of the rotary will always leave it vulnerable to this problem, and those of us who love them can learn to adapt to such a little foible. I'm never without an extra set of plugs. Just in case.
Nobody here has mentioned the best thing about flooding rotaries:
In a few years, there will be people who flood their RX-8s after the warranty runs out and are then sure that the engine is dead, dead, dead.
I look forward to offering them about a thousand dollars to take it off their hands, pouring a little ATF, and driving the car away.
The geometry of the rotary will always leave it vulnerable to this problem, and those of us who love them can learn to adapt to such a little foible. I'm never without an extra set of plugs. Just in case.
03-07-2004, 04:41 PM
#268
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GOD BLESS THE RX-8 BOARD!
I've had my Rx-8 for about 4 months and I just flooded it today, UGH. However, thanks to the knowledgable folks on this board I got it started back up in 10 minutes! No flying into a blind rage, crying, going into the fetal position...up and running no problem!
From now on I will also start using some of the nifty tricks listed here so that I don't ever have to deal with this issue again.
GOD BLESS THE RX-8 BOARD!
- Voodookhan
From now on I will also start using some of the nifty tricks listed here so that I don't ever have to deal with this issue again.
GOD BLESS THE RX-8 BOARD!
- Voodookhan
03-07-2004, 07:36 PM
#269
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Re: GOD BLESS THE RX-8 BOARD!
Originally posted by Voodookhan
I've had my Rx-8 for about 4 months and I just flooded it today, UGH. ...
I've had my Rx-8 for about 4 months and I just flooded it today, UGH. ...
. What did you do that caused it to get flooded and what technique did you use to successfully unflood it?Thanks,
rx8cited
03-07-2004, 09:09 PM
#270
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wow after reading 18 pages, i'm really worried and mabye thinking about getting a Type S RSX instead.
I can't imagine being far from home...hundreds of miles and this happening.
You stall by mistake in the middle of nowhere....yikes.
Man this sucks. The 8 is my dreamcar and just waiting for the final word from my salesman tommorow.
I can't imagine being far from home...hundreds of miles and this happening.
You stall by mistake in the middle of nowhere....yikes.
Man this sucks. The 8 is my dreamcar and just waiting for the final word from my salesman tommorow.
03-08-2004, 10:00 AM
#271
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Add me to the flooded victims list.....warned hubby about shutting off car with cold engine.....he did not believe me. Lastnight he pulled it out then back in and shut it down...this morning it would not start. Tried the emergency start procedure.....no luck. Towing to dealer today thru Roadside assistance! Argh...aggravated that he did not believe me when I am the one driving the car everyday and have read all about it and he's read nothing!!!! Had the car 4 months now!
03-08-2004, 11:09 AM
#272
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Originally posted by cruzdreamer
Towing to dealer today thru Roadside assistance!
Towing to dealer today thru Roadside assistance!
You may want to try the following before having it towed. Several people have reported success doing this, even when the Mazda procedure fails.
1. Connect some form of electrical support to the battery (charger, jump from another car, etc).
2. Pull the fuel pump breaker.
3. Crank the car until the in-chamber fuel catches or is blown out.
4. Put the breaker back in and crank the car.
Just don't crank the car continuously for more than 8-10 seconds to avoid overheating the starter.
03-08-2004, 05:54 PM
#273
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My car has flooded twice. Both times I had to take it to the dealer to get it started. I just found out that they pull the fuse on the fuel pump to get it started, then the put the fuse back in. I haven't tried it.
I've also found that if I run to the store (less than 1 mile) shut it off and then restart it I don't have any problems, but if I don't let it warm up and then let it sit overnight then it will flood.
I've also found that if I run to the store (less than 1 mile) shut it off and then restart it I don't have any problems, but if I don't let it warm up and then let it sit overnight then it will flood.
03-08-2004, 06:06 PM
#274
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I was talking to a dealer today about this problem and he said that they have fixed the problem on models shipping for the past 3 months. He said they are now putting hotter firing plugs in the car to lessen the possibility of flooding.
Sounds like dealer speak but I thought I would pass it along for people who might be worried about such things.
Sounds like dealer speak but I thought I would pass it along for people who might be worried about such things.
03-08-2004, 07:52 PM
#275
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Push start the car and pop the clutch. Much easier than having it towed away and gone for a couple of days. As a last resort pull it down the street behind another car in gear. It will start EVERY time with this method! If you have an auto obviously it won't work.
I was working on Mr. Wigggles RX-8 a few weeks ago. I started the car but immediately stalled it. When I restarted it I pushed the gas pedal all the way to the floor so no fuel would enter the engine until I let up. The car still started with my foot all the way down! When it cranked up I immediately pulled my foot off the gas. The engine wasn't getting any fuel but there was still enough fuel in the engine that it would start. Had I not have done this the car probably would have flooded. It obviously had enough fuel to start, and adding anymore wasn't going to help any. I've said it once and I'll say it over and over and over again until everyone listens. The rotary is a unique engine that deserves some unique treatment. I don't give a damn about what it "should" be like or what the service manual says.
The different spark plugs may help a little but it is side stepping the real issue and is more of a bandaid rather than a cure.
I was working on Mr. Wigggles RX-8 a few weeks ago. I started the car but immediately stalled it. When I restarted it I pushed the gas pedal all the way to the floor so no fuel would enter the engine until I let up. The car still started with my foot all the way down! When it cranked up I immediately pulled my foot off the gas. The engine wasn't getting any fuel but there was still enough fuel in the engine that it would start. Had I not have done this the car probably would have flooded. It obviously had enough fuel to start, and adding anymore wasn't going to help any. I've said it once and I'll say it over and over and over again until everyone listens. The rotary is a unique engine that deserves some unique treatment. I don't give a damn about what it "should" be like or what the service manual says.
The different spark plugs may help a little but it is side stepping the real issue and is more of a bandaid rather than a cure.