skagen

A month? You sure the battery simply wasn't dead? Leave any car not running for a month and it shouldn't start. Your situation wasn't a flooding issue.

wakeech

very true. nicrsx, stop being such an alarmist for god's sakes.

msrecant,

the technical solution that we're waiting for is one which will allow 'quick cat lightoff' (which is an emissions requirement to keep emissions low over the first couple of minutes after startup, which is specially regulated) but keep the cat cool enough that it can run for a solid 10 years behind a wankel engine.
this would be as simple as moving the catalyst a few inches further down the line, maybe even fitting some radiating vanes along the exhaust to keep heat down once everything gets running... i dunno, it's rediculous really. there are simple solutions, but i suppose for some reason they're simply not allowed to utilize them.

241Commuter

tgarland, I'm with you completely.

When my wife and I bought our 8 we bought it because we loved the looks and we loved the ride. Silly me, I'm the guy in the house. Of course I should have known that in 2004 Mazda would sell cars that are prone to flooding. Shoulda known better. And, those MPG figures in big block fonts on the window bears no relevance to the same big block font numbers in windows of other cars, and should not be used for comparison purposes. How could I ever have thought otherwise?

I couldn't care less about the HP complaints. The car accelerates for us just the way it did on test drive. But NA Mazda and Anaheim Mazda failed to disclose some serious shortcomings about things I would reasonably expect not to be problems before I bought the car. The 8 is marketed to the general public. I never saw any notices that warned me that only serious rotoheads should go this way. Caveat emptor is not something that should bubble to the surface when buying a $30k NEW car in 2004 - not if the seller wants to maintain its reputation for selling fine cars.

I commend Mazda for their attempts to correct the problems, but why the heck don't they do the recall and flash everybody? Let me answer my own question - they're not really there yet. The L flash is a bandaid. Mazda is sweating this one, hoping they can come up with an economical fix before the class action and product liability suits start.

BTW, that last TSB on cars that won't start is a real plateful. Looks like evidence to me.

klegg

Gee, and all that writing in that little owners book that tells you the car may stall without proper warm up really does not matter? You know, I bought the first one off the truck, and have NEVER stalled it.....problem is not your driving style is it?

241Commuter

>>problem is not your driving style is it?<<

Nope. We have never flooded it. That doesn't mean that a year from now it won't pick the worst possible time to flood. This is an engine that is prone to flooding - one little mindslip and you're hosed. tgarland's point is that the RX-8 delivery was premature and I agree. It's going to cost Mazda a lot more to fix the problems with all these cars on the road than it would to fix it right in the first place.

Most RX-8 owners don't read this forum. I would guess that 90% of the owners aren't even aware that flooding is an issue. Is Mazda going to wait until the first car gets stalled out in a bad place and gets creamed before they do something? Oh yeah, Mazda is 30% owned by Ford and they have a long tradition of burying product liability issues.

tgarland855

I would agree with you about the driving style issue, however, this has nothing to do with driving the vehicle. If my wife backs the vehicle into the driveway to wash the car, then attempts to start the vehicle after the wash is complete, the CAR WILL FLOOD...

In comparison to the other two vehicles I own or the several others I have owned in my life or even the hundreds of models out there in the market, this vehicle must be handled with white gloves do to it's problematic tendancies.

If one were to poll car owners across the country and ask them if they allow their vehicle, whatever model it is, to get to running temp every time they operate the vehicle before they turn it off I think that number would be exceptionally low.

My wife is a professional who has a good education and is very capable of making a vehicle purchase on her own without the assistance of a man. She is a far cry from the comment made by another who insisted that the wife or daughter will be happy if the vehicle starts, runs, and gets them from point A to point B. (paraphrased, not exact quote).

I feel the dealership, including the sales staff and service reps. do not convey the problems with the 8 to prospective buyers. They seem to be more concerned with making the sale then making the buyer aware of the problematic tendencies. I agree with the other posting that stated a Caveat should not apply to prospective buyers of a 2004 $30k+ car.

I read several postings on this site prior to posting my own. I realized that most of the people posting comments or responces concerning the 8 have owned other RX models and appear to love the vehicle. It also appears that many people have ACCEPTED the problematic tendencies of the vehicle and are okay with them. Well I'm not..... I guess it's an old thought, you know, if you buy something you should get what you pay for. But oh well.

msrecant

I agree, it is a puzzle why some form of solution is not forthcoming. Hopefully it is just because they don't want to mess with 2004 sales and that the 2005s will have the fix.

We will see next fall.

sferrett

This is not true. The car *may* flood, it's not guaranteed.

I spent a week stalling out and shutting my car down cold and did not experience any flooding issues at all.

I'm not saying there's not the possibility that it will flood, of course there is. However, it's not a certainty and false statements such as you made above are unneccessary.

The owners manual has a short-trip procedure in it which should be followed to avoid the potential of flooding. Anyone who drives the car should read and follow their owners' manual.

klegg

My point is, this is the known nature of the car..I already knew about this from my research on the rx-7, but my sales guy went over it with me when I bought it, IN THE SUMMER. If you were not told by your sales people, you are right to be upset..but at them, not at MAZDA. Of course, the MPG issue is a real concern, but it looks like the new flash is starting to fix the problem.

And you are right about ford, I still remeber the pinto mess..

nicrsx

Your joking right?

All RX8 owners should be hammering Mazda if they want
this taken care of.
I have worked in service a long time. Squeaky wheels get
greased. Pissed on customers who don't complain get
the shaft.
If you like an unreliable car and want to throw $30k @ it
then it certainly is cool with me.
I know it is cool with Mazda.
Let me sell you a bridge.
Cute car but for a couple of bucks more...
Well enough of that.
Alarmist that I am.

skagen

I say the flooding isn't a serious issue? Read it closely, not many complex sentences to flex your brain there. I said what happened in your situation might not have been a flooding issue since you left it there for a month. More than likely its your battery. And yes, the flooding is an issue as I've already written a formal complaint to Mazda.

nicrsx

Your right about not many complex sentences.
But where is your brain?
This was a thread about flooding not batteries or not starting
because you can't tell the diff.
Talking down because you can't get it up er oops
thats what she said.

:o

kurtschwanz

I know the thread is about the flooding issue, and I will get to that in a moment. But I would like to comment on the dead battery issue first.

While I cannot agree or disagree with the comment that a dead battery after a month of non-use would be normal, I can attest to the fact that I have had my RX-8 battery die - twice now - after about 15 days of non-use....and that is definitely NOT normal in my experience! I have gone out of town on vacations dozens of times and left my other vehicle (a Jeep) in the garage. Come back and one turn of the key, it is running. And last fall, when I had just gotten the RX8, the Jeep sat for probably 4 or 5 weeks at one point without being touched.....and started right up.

As for the flooding - flooded mine about 3 1/2 weeks ago, simply by stalling it while backing out of the garage. I was *PISSED* when the dealer told me they would fix it one time for free, but after that it was my problem.

They say it is documented in the owner's manual...but excuse me, I did not get the manual until I had already bought the car! (Guess that's why it's called an Owner's Manual, huh?)

So where is the "prospective buyer's" manual? I waited three months from the time I ordered the car, sight unseen, last May, till the time I received it in August. During that time I got about a dozen things in the mail from Mazda...books, magazines, a thermos even!.....none of them explaining the unusual care and feeding required of the product. Had I known then, I probably would not buy the car, and I feel that is (criminal!) failure to disclose on Mazda's part.

Now, here's something I tried to search for in this forum but did not find. (Though admittedly, I did not read every single post on this topic yet.)

The car is actually at the dealer's as I am typing. After they fixed the flood problem last time, they apparently orderd "glow plugs" which they are installing free of charge.

(I'm also having my recal work done at the same time.)

Has anyone else heard of this fix?

rotarygod

Glow plugs are the diesel engine's equivalent of spark plugs. They better nto be installing those! They are probably just installing hooter plugs and some sevice guy didn't know what they were called (scary?).

flatso

Well I hope they are not installing hooter's either. The car will not run on milk as far as I know.

rotarygod

My spelling sucks. If they installed hooters I'd be there in a second. Is that what a car bra is for?

skagen

My point exactly. This thread is about floods, not leaving your car for a month, letting the battery die, and then freaking out. I only asked if you were sure it wasn't the battery. Then you went nuts. Oh and by the way, "Your right..." is gramatically incorrect. Can't stand people who don't know how to use "your" and "you're." Go back to high school and take English again retard.

nicrsx

Ahh poor baby
Let your daddy buy you another car.

Your manners speak to your character or lack of it.

nicrsx

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kurtschwanz
[B]I know the thread is about the flooding issue, and I will get to that in a moment. But I would like to comment on the dead battery issue first.

While I cannot agree or disagree with the comment that a dead battery after a month of non-use would be normal, I can attest to the fact that I have had my RX-8 battery die - twice now - after about 15 days of non-use....and that is definitely NOT normal in my experience! I have gone out of town on vacations dozens of times and left my other vehicle (a Jeep) in the garage. Come back and one turn of the key, it is running. And last fall, when I had just gotten the RX8, the Jeep sat for probably 4 or 5 weeks at one point without being touched.....and started right up.

As for the flooding - flooded mine about 3 1/2 weeks ago, simply by stalling it while backing out of the garage. I was *PISSED* when the dealer told me they would fix it one time for free, but after that it was my problem.


They say it is documented in the owner's manual...but excuse me, I did not get the manual until I had already bought the car! (Guess that's why it's called an Owner's Manual, huh?)

So where is the "prospective buyer's" manual? I waited three months from the time I ordered the car, sight unseen, last May, till the time I received it in August. During that time I got about a dozen things in the mail from Mazda...books, magazines, a thermos even!.....none of them explaining the unusual care and feeding required of the product. Had I known then, I probably would not buy the car, and I feel that is (criminal!) failure to disclose on Mazda's part.

Now, here's something I tried to search for in this forum but did not find. (Though admittedly, I did not read every single post on this topic yet.)

The car is actually at the dealer's as I am typing. After they fixed the flood problem last time, they apparently orderd "glow plugs" which they are installing free of charge.

(I'm also having my recal work done at the same time.)'

Here we go again.
Another problem area crops up. I have to agree that I have had
autos sit for more than that without any problem. The battery
shouldn't die in that amount of time with out any abnormal drain.
If you have some sort of high resistance short to ground ... well
ask a meter jockey.

I am trying to get a contact at Mazda other than their
customer answer boys on the web.
Any one have any good contacts?

thered1996

Even if a class-action lawsuit loss required Mazda to replace the airbag "stickers" on the visors with safety instuctions stating we had to drive the car a minimum of 2 minutes when cold AND they had to reemburse each of us $100 per year for the extra fuel AND every prospective buyer had to sign a release before even looking at the car attesting that they understood the shortcomings of the car, this is still a DAMN fine car for the money.

I'm quite comfortable living with minor inconvenience in order to have:

- handling hardly found even in cars costing twice as much

- electric assist power steering which reacts to bumps on curve and really DOES assist.

- the cool factor of a carbon-fiber driveshaft (OK, 350Z's have this too, but can THEY seat 4? OK, so the G35 probably has one too, but can it seat TALL people in back?)

- a car that draws attention everywhere I go

- an engine that loves to be run hard and seems surprised & disappointed at it's own 9K redline.


New cars are neither an investment or a guarantee. Cars like this one are an emotional purchase. Buy a Camry if you want your due diligence to be handled by others.

My personal theory: Mazda will make a go of fixing the fuel & flooding problems within the confines of the 10-year plan (for emisions systems) as they now have more test vehicles than they did when they designed the car. If they can't get it right soon, they'll flash the cars to J-spec, leak that the 247HP is now on tap, and allocate funds to replace the cats when our cars start failing emissions in 2010.

The 2005 or 6 models will receive an actual fix or they'll reserve the RX8 for non-US markets just like they did with the RX7 from 1995 to 2003. (I would've loved to have one of those 7's with the almost-Renesis they released in 2002.)


- Eric H., Marietta, GA

Proudly driving a 70's throw-back: it burns oil and could potentially flood...my Honda Accord-drivng neighbors could never understand.

nicrsx

Understood!

But....
If you don't push on what needs to be fixed.
If you smile and say may I have another sir.
It may mean you are macho.
It may mean you truly are able to take the punishment.
It may mean you are being abused.
Dollars and cents.
You paid. They owe. Period
Great car to drive. I agree.
Can it be better?
Shouldn't they be working on making it better?
Shouldn't they stand behind their product?
No deep thought here. If you want passion... I mean a Ferrari..
thats passion. There was a time that I would take abuse
to drive what I liked. It is not quite that way anymore. Mazda
is never going to drive me to passion like Enzo's stuff.

Tinkerer

This looks like the Big Bad Flood thread, so I'm going to post this here...

I just made an appointment at the dealership to have some work done. The service writer had some interesting things to say about the flooding issue.

I can't attest to the accuracy or truth of any of this, and to protect this well known movie director, I'm going to skirt around the name... Don't shoot the messenger -- I'm only repeating what I was told...

Big Big Time movie director owns an RX8 in the Hamptons. He's flooded at least a couple of times.

Somehow his dealer gets him in touch with the factory rep who in turn has the car towed in and not only does the local factory rep show up but a factory rep from Japan. They're doing a big study on this flooding issue and the director's car got some special attention.

Turns out that this rep from Japan doesn't speak the best english (but hey he's got one more language than I do!). Turns out his main reason for being here is the flooding issue and he expects to be here for THREE MONTHS researching the problem.

Service writer also tells me that the 8 is more prone to flooding than the 7.

Now I've only flooded once, but it wasn't by the book at all. 20 mile ride, shut off, 14 hours later started for two seconds and stalled. 20 minutes later, a lot of gas fumes and then nearly 3-4 minutes of thick black smoke and she started again...

Service writer said this is NOT the typical scenario so they're going to do the flash and see what else they can learn.

Bottom line is that I guess Mazda is looking at this problem pretty seriously and there may be some guy from Japan that's got his cookies in a squeeze over it.

Again, only repeating what I was told -- you don't like it -- you didn't hear it from me!

Tinkerer

MEGAREDS

My dealer also told me that the flooding would only be fixed once... they backed off when I wrote Mazda and complained. The letter I received from Mazda NA says:

"In regards to your question, any incidence of RX-8 flooding, whether it be dealer service or towing, will be covered uner Mazda New Vehicle Warranty (48months/50,000 miles). I apologize for any miscommunication between you and the dealer as dealers have been educated that the repair will always be covered by Mazda."

The latest TSB regarding "engine cranks/no start" (aka, flooding) expressly states that the engine de-flood procedure is covered. See these links:

Got My Letter: Flooding Covered Under Warranty!

TSB: Engine Cranks No Start

nicrsx

Verrry Interrresting...
Okay I'm done with the posting. It is a very informative process.
But I want to include the last reply I got from Mazda thru MyMazda.com
The reply follows:


Be assured, Nick, your comments have been passed on since the very
first e-mail that you sent. It is mandated that any contact from
customers regarding technical concerns are collected and coded into
categorical headings. Additionally, I have personally forwarded your
comments for technical review.

As I have noted to your previously, for ANY concerns brought to the
attention of a Mazda dealership, if they do not have a repair but can
duplicate any actual concern, they WILL be working with their Quality
Assurance towards resolution...this matter is no different. If this
design characteristic has been brought to dealerships as an owner
concern to the degree that you estimate, then you can be assured that
yes, there is technical development towards a repair. I have researched
this with technical contact points and have been advised that technical
support to dealerships are looking into the matter and that with such
design matters, countermeasures are usually developed.

I hope that this information helps. Remember, your Mazda dealership will


be continuously updated about such matters and will be a direct contact
for ANY technical matters. They work directly with their tech line
while any developments are being made and will be the first to receive
information and/or any countermeasure procedures.

Again, thank you for contacting Mazda. It has been my pleasure to
assist you.

rx2go

Jesus Nic, Wakeech and Skagen are right. Leave your car for a month and it doesn't start and you think its flooded? That in itself already says you don't have much experience in the service industry. Stop being so **** and take that pine cone out of your ***. Makes no sense comparing a 30k and a 200k car. That's just friggin stupid.