RedSheDevil

yes.

ddub

That's fine, you have a right to your opinion.

But what exactly makes all of you "rotary experts" all of a sudden? I'm not claiming I am by any means, but just because you own a rotary does not mean you all of a sudden know everything about them.

Sure some people might have problems with flooding, the question is WHY. There has to be something else going on here. Even look at the poll, there are more people that have voted NO to the ever flooded your rx8 question than YES by over 200. People that are flooding their rx8's are a minority. The only reason it's so publicized and Mazda had to put out crap to inform and "fix" it is because there are people doing it. They do not want unhappy customers or bad publicity, so if there are say 5% of rx8 owners with this issue, it will still be fixed. Minority issues can still be blown way out of proportion, example is this thread.

Do you see the thousands of people that have never flooded their rx8's making threads saying "how many of you haven't ever flooded your rx8?" Absolutely not, because if there is not a problem they don't even think twice about it.

Being that this is a minority issue, there has to be SOME OTHER REASON it is happening that it just being the car.

ddub

Oh and in regards to this statement "1200+ posts in https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=17498 . IMHO it is not the people, it is the car"

I'm willing to bet the majority of those posts are by reacurring users. Probably just the same people over and over again saying "yah flooding sucks" or "omg I flooded my car again" and so on, with bits and pieces from various other flooders and non-flooders.

Plus it's common on rx8club for threads to be blown up into 1000+ posts and tons of pages from mere chit chat and useless posting.

RedSheDevil

Hey, I'm all ears to why this is happening. Mine has flooded a bunch of times. Yes, I had the new starter, battery and plugs put in and STILL FLOODED.

And the thing that so incensed me about your post was that it was NOT user error. Some seem to be prone to flooding. Don't you think we are trying to figure out why???? Do you think it's fun to have a dead car when you're stranded in another state and they flatbed you to an unknown dealer???

What about wanting to find a solution makes us "rotary experts"??? We are in a forum trying to figure out how to make it stop happening. Consider yourself lucky that every time you put the key in to start, she turns over and you are able to be on your merry way. Some of us aren't so lucky.

RedSheDevil

So stop posting here and let us get back to figuring out why it's happening....

sheesh

swoope

iTrader: (5)

i am also one of those people that cant manage to flood my car... and i back it out of the driveway and turn it off....

have had it for 2.5 years and 51k miles... do have the bigger battery. but not the starter...

i do the rev to 4k thing now before shutdown on a cold engine now... but did not the first year...

it is odd how selective it is..

beers

ddub

Simple, it's the people and their driving style.

Unplug your battery for a day, hook it back up, do the 20x brake pump to reset the PCM. After that you'll have a fresh start. From then on out if you're worried with short trips, extreme cold/hot days, backing out and having to turn it off immediately, or whatever just do this simple trick. Punch the gas, in neutral, up to 4 or 5k rpms and CUT OFF the engine (ie take the key out) while it's on its way UP. Do not wait until it reaches the point and holds it there, or don't wait while it's falling back down, do it on the way up. Mazda's "technique" is the extreme way for people that do not understand this concept. RX7 guys have been doing this for YEARS when they have weak engines and flooding problems, it's no new trick.

Oh and about my driving style comment. For automatics it's not their fault, it's the fact they have an automatic. Automatic rx7's have notoriously had more issues as well, ie engines don’t last as long, more carbon buildup, more flooding, lower compression, etc etc etc. This is because they don't get rev'd up very high often enough. After you reset the ECU, at least every other day, if not more, rev the car up under load. Take it to redline in first gear, drive it like it should be driven... Avoid driving at constant rpms for extreme amounts of time, keep it in the 3k range, and so on. Do this consistently after you reset everything. Constant low rpm driving allows more carbon to remain in the engine, more oil injection buildup due to the inherent issues with the MOP systems on rotary cars, and an easier situation to flood the car.

That's my advice, take it as you wish.

ddub

Then sell the car, jeez. If it has SO many issues, causes you SO much trouble, and you are SO frustrated about it, sell it. And if you think it's random rx8's that do or don't have it, sell it and get another one! Maybe you'll get "lucky" next time

RedSheDevil

wow, not gettin any?

ddub

No I get plenty, thanks.

msrecant

Sorry, I had just finished posting in another flooding thread and didn't realize which thread I was replying to.

CERAMICSEAL

dDub,
You are amazing! You're so naturally insultive, acting like members of the 8 community are all so ignorant and less informed than you.
As I've stated on this forum for years: All rotaries are somewhat prone to flooding in comparison to their piston powered cousins; the 8 is just the worst offender of all. My observation of the situation leads me to conclude that, whereas it leads you to conclude that it's the owners.
By the way, I flooded a brand new FD when I worked for Mazda back in the day (Weak battery).

ddub

Is it more likely than a modern day piston? Of course. Did it happen now and then to new rx7's? Yes. Was it common? Absolutely not.

I am speaking about how it is not very COMMON for it to happen on rx7's unless it was not maintained properly, low compression, yadda yadda yadda.

Some of you think I'm being insultive, I'm not. Remember the internet does not carry tone very well.

anbjornk

The spraying/paint shop just called me... They couldnt start the engine I told them the flooding procedure, so I hope they get the car starting. I also called my local Mazda dealer about the new battery & starter issue, but they had no TSB for it. I guess USA and EU have different TSB's? (I have the new plugs)

Can I do anything myself? Buy a better battery?

Racer X-8

The TSB's have the MNAO identification in the header, so, I guess they must be North American. The new battery and statrer ROCK, seriously. It would be a shame to waste a perfectly good flood (sorry, I'm just trying to be funny here d'oh!) and not come away from it without those goodies installed for free!...

anbjornk

I guess there is nothing I can do...

CERAMICSEAL

That's my whole point. The Renesis has more of a problem than the earlier rotaries, so the poor owners who have experienced a flood aren't necessarilly abusive or un-informed. It has happened to people doing all of the things that you recommended. The problem has always been insufficient cranking speed in relation to to sealing capabilities, taking into consideration sparkplug condition and heat range and having to operate in a moving combustion chamber with the worst shape for flame propagation of any modern engine. The Renesis is just worse because it doesn't easily expell excess fuel out of it's exhaust ports and for some reason between Mazda engineers and bean counters they overlooked the need for a better battery and starter initially.
THE PROBLEM IS REAL. People aren't making this up or imagining this.

Racer X-8

Get with your local Mazda service rep. This upgrade is practically free for the mere asking in North America. I got the whole deal (for free) just because I told my service guy that it was seeming to want to flood lately! I didn't even have a flood yet! Your service department must conform to Mazda service standards, and there must be an area Mazda rep who's job is to see that they do. Find him if your service department refuses you! Where are you anyway?

anbjornk

I'm in Norway (A little nice country )

I just spoke with Mazda Norway, and they told me that the starter/battery fix didn't apply to my car as it was not within the "VIN" range the fix applied to. (May 2004).

Would a powerful aftermarket battery help me?

Go48

An upgraded battery will help some, but the biggest benefit of this "package" comes from the upgraded starter motor.

RedSheDevil

Did you check the TSB for VIN range?

Racer X-8

Yeah...

http://www.finishlineperformance.com...4-05-1448e.pdf

2004-2005 RX-8"

msrecant

A May of 2004 build (check the driver's door jamb) should still need the battery, starter and leading plugs. I would print out the Service Bulletin (click here) , take it to the dealer and discuss why they believe the updates do not apply. Even though its an MNAO document, the dates when changes were applied to the production line should be world wide.

From the Service Bullletin the updates are as follows:

- PCM calibration - The PCM calibration was modified to reduce fuel injection amount during cold conditions. PCM calibration was modified in vehicle production on 3/12/04.

- Battery - A higher capacity battery was introduced (6/1/04).

- Engine starter - Revised to increase cranking compression at engine start. Implemented into vehicle production 11/8/04 (For AT models), 12/1/04 (For MT models).

- Leading spark plugs - The leading spark plugs have been revised to reduce the possibilities of fuel flooding at cold engine start. Revised leading spark plugs were implemented in vehicle production on 3/22/05.


In answer to your question, you can always purchase the updated 640 CCA battery, either from Mazda (part #0000-80-6535-WB) or from a automotive store (Interstate brand “MTP35” battery). You say you already have the new plugs. The main issue is getting the upgraded starter. I would keep pushing to get it.

Good luck!

anbjornk

Good answers

I'll print the TSB and take it to my dealer... (On monday actually)

I'll keep you all updated.

Slow Death

If having to run the engine for 5 minutes before you move it means that it's flooding, the answer is an emphetic YES!

I've got to do this every morning if I want the car to move! I actually thought it might be something wrong with my auto-box till I read a thread on how the box's control is all powerful.

If anyone can tell me exactly what I can do to cure this... ? Pulleeeeeesssse?