msrecant

This last time did they make sure you have the updated PCM firmware, battery, starter and leading plugs? If not, take the car back and make sure they do everything listed in the Service Bulletin http://www.finishlineperformance.com...4-05-1448e.pdf . If you have all these updates the chance of flooding is greatly reduced, almost eliminated.

However, you still may want to make an effort to not cut the engine off before it has had a chance to warm up, just to give yourself that extra level of insurance against flooding.

Racer X-8

Happy happy happy, joy joy joy !!!

I took mine in for routine servicing today. I talked on the phone for a little while with a service manager yesterday about the very sluggish starting and how we here know that the answer to that is coupled to the best answer going so far for the flooding issue and is covered in the TSB for Engine Cranks No Start, that being the new battery, starter and plugs. He started to act dumb, so I said, ok, no problem, when I bring it in, I'll have the TSB printed-out for him to study - all 17 pages of it.

This morning, I had my wife drop it off. I wrote on the top of the TSB print-out "Engine cranks VERY SLUGGISHLY! MIGHT FLOOD AT ANY TIME NOW...", then I indicated on page 1 where it shows to replace the battery, the starter and the leading plugs.

We didn't hear all morning from them. At lunch time, they called to annouce that it was ready to go. We both went to pick it up. The job was done!!!

The part numbers look correct on the invoice, the TSB is noted on there as well.

Since I am on of the original pre-order customers, with my free scheduled maintenance, all that plus the regular service charges added up to $0.00 . And I waved bye-bye to the cashier on the way out.

I'm a happy camper! Mazda has just done what they needed to do to keep me on its' list of faithful followers!!! Thanks a million Mazda!!!

Racer X-8

Oh, by the way, I talked to the main service manager. He swears that holding the rev's at 3k for 30 seconds is 100% trustworthy - that you don't need to bring it up to temp to shut her down if you do that. That makes a lot of sense. That must be how the service guys do it, for 2 very big reasons 1) They don't have the time to sit there and wait for the engine to warm up before shutting it down. 2) They don't want to have to work on an engine that is real hot. They move cars around all day long. It makes sense, and so, I gotta believe him.

He said to hold it at around 3k for about 30 seconds. Let go of the gas and turn off when the tach gets to around 1000rpm (not quite yet down to idle).

This isn't new news, just reinforces the notion that shutting-down like this is 100% trustworthy. I didn't feel so hot about doing it that way myself. He said it'll start for you the next time, no problems, guaranteed.

Racer X-8

Just to clarify one more thing, I never told them that my engine had flooded. Never. They can confirm that I had lied by going to check on the faults memory. Besides that, I don't lie. The big manager asked me "You never actually flooded it, did you?" I said "No, but the way it's been cranking so sluggishly, I was pretty sure it would be letting me down prretty soon." He said, "Oh, ok, I thought that was how it was, I just wanted to be sure of that matter, we had no record here that you actually flooded her." And again, I said "Nope, never flooded her..."

I'm not completely sure of just how he took this matter, whether he felt that I schnookered him somehow out of all that stuff since I never flooded it. We talked for a good 5 minutes about things, mainly about the flooding issue and he acted quite friendly after I confirmed to him that I never flooded the car, so, I guess all is well with the world...

He talked a good bit about carbon build-up causing several engine replacements, that a lot of RX-8 owners just "putz around town" and never rev it like it should to keep the carbon build-up down. By the time the engine locks-up, it's so bad, they have to replace the whole engine!

"Rev it like you stole it" it his motto. He said they love to be revved... so, do it

MEGAREDS

My experience was similar. I asked that the remediation be done, and the service manager agreed without discussion. I asked about the charge. He said there would be no charge. I was very pleased.

My invoice on picking up the car, which I had to sign, said, "Customer states the engine cranks but will not start. Often has had to follow deflood procedure several times in last few weeks. Intermittently flooding. Replaced starter assembly, battery and leading spark plugs with updated parts. Warranty. $0.0"

I don't think the above is anything but Mazda NA padding its records to preclude a recall, as opposed to my dealership stealing warranty work. I think the on-board computer registers each crank-no start, so the customer shouldn't have to "state" anything. So be it -- the squeaky wheel and all... I'm giving Mazda NA credit for taking care of me.

Bottom line is that you can either lie, or whine... I expect the result will be the same. They'll do the work if you insist.

BTW, I thought the starter would be very different; it's not. The crank is slightly higher pitched, but generally sounds like the previous one.

ultradave

As I mentioned previously, I've had a number of flooding events, always when the car was warm. I never had a problem with short cold moves. Several times I was late to important meetings. I also had the car in 3 times to aim the headlights - they could never fix them and they were aimed so close that it was dangerous to drive at night. Enough problems.

Anyway, I just took delivery of a brand new MX-5 Miata (Sport model) in Winning Blue on Friday. I love it. It is just as much fun to drive, if not more so, than the RX-8, and my wife and I enjoyed tooling all around with the top down yesterday.

I've enjoyed reading and learning from everyone, but I'll probably spend a lot less time here from now on and spend that time driving :-)

Dave

Racer X-8

If I believed in karma... anyway...

MEGAREDS

O.K., no one is allowed to talk to Dave anymore. Pass it on.

Racer X-8

Dave Who?

HVN+FUN

My engine flooded this morning and was towed to the dealer. I did not start and stop the engine...I'm a fanatic about not doing that. The 2004's have a battery problem that they suspect caused the flooding. As it was explained to me, if there isn't enough juice in the battery to turn the engine over right away, it can flood the engine. That's what has probably happened to my car. Lucky its under warranty. Sad to see it on a flatbed.

Racer X-8

Bummer dude. That's exactly what I just avoided - see above just a little bit. I know that doesn't ease your pain...

msrecant

I agree, the original battery is weak and will probably give up the ghost and die after 2 or 3 winters at best That is what happened to mine although it never totally died. Luckily it prompted my dealer to install all the flooding upgrades (battery, starter and leading plugs) under warranty, which the car really needs done.

HVN+FUN

By the way Racer, your posts helped me understand what was going on with my car right after it happened. When it didn't start I found this site and did some research. I sounded pretty knowledgeable when I was explaining it all to my husband Also have some condensation in the rear light that they'll fix at the same time. But otherwise, I LOVE my car.

MX6_2_RX8

I have been lurking on this thread since I flooded mine. (details are on page 78 of this thread so I won’t repeat them) Ever since I don’t really trust the car to start – ever really, because I figure when I need it most it will leave me stranded which leads me to my question. Is there a better way to get a flooded engine started like pulling a fuse to the fuel pump? I think I have read that if you follow the de-flooding/de-chocking procedure and hold down on the accelerator that the computer doesn’t give the car any gas. Is this right?!? I have tried it when the engine is not flooded and it starts and winds right up to red line as soon as it catches so that really doesn’t sound like it is cutting the fuel.

Tell me I’m wrong, call me stupid, tell me to search, I don’t really care, I would just like to come up with a sure fire way of starting a flooded car short of injecting washer fluid into the rotor. This one might work but I don’t really want to re-engineer my car AND I don’t think rain-X bug remover is the best thing to squirt into the engine.

msrecant

Check out the DIY "Deflooding in under 5 mins".

I can't vouch for this personally but you can read the pros/cons in the thread. It also has the downside that if you de-flood it yourself you don't get the TSB updates nor do your get the diagnostics (like checking for CAT damage) that you would if you had the dealer de-flood the car.

RedSheDevil

I flooded again after having the TSB stuff done. This time it required a flatbed. So, the TSB fixes do not fix the problem.

MX6_2_RX8

Yeah, that was the thread I was referring to with the washer fluid. I don't like that solution because it has void my warranty written all over it and my car seems to be in the shop enough that I would be taking it on and off way too many times.

Brice-RX8

How do you flood the car after it has the higher output battery, new plugs, and improved starter? The only thing I have done to my car is upgrade the battery myself and I have never had a flood or it be even close to flooding, hell my starter is very slow compared to the way the new one sounds. Granted I never cut the car off cold, and if it is less than fully warm I do the 3k shutdown.

msrecant

Did it happen after a short trip and cutting it off cold?

RedSheDevil

Nope, it just happened. Then when I took it to the dealership (of course I was not at home when this happened) the new dealership lied to me and said the starter had never been replaced. I told them yes, it had. They argued with me and when I brought up the fact that I could HEAR the difference in the starting (the rev is MUCH faster on the new one) they claimed that was due to a reflash.

I'm currently getting all my paperwork together to report this to MNAO. It's bad enough we have to deal with a car that could possibly leave you stranded; we shouldn't have to deal with dealerships lying about other dealerships.

I love this car, I'm just so disappointed in the complete lack of integrity at some of the dealerships.

MEGAREDS

Red:

Strange time of year to flood -- the weather's been dry, too. I'm thinking you've got something weird going on . . . did it crank at all?

My new starter is different sounding, but not so much that anyone other than me would ever notice.

Perhaps a bit off topic, but the one thing I have noted since the updates to my car (battery, plugs, starter) is that the power in my AT seems to drop quickly whenever I remove my foot from the accelerator; the tach just drops like a rock, and sometimes fluctuates slightly at the low end, like it catches itself and corrects. The power drop is also not something the average person might notice -- it's just a big change from what I was used to.

RedSheDevil

Yep, it cranked and cranked and cranked. It almost caught once and some smoke came out (the way it did before when I dechoked it) but then it died right away and wouldn't catch again.

I figured, "hey, let's get this taken care of once and for all" and had it towed. It's just sad when I have to walk into a dealership (as a knowledgable consumer) and get treated like an idiot. I was also accused (to my face) as a "dealer-hopper." When I inquired as to what that was, she told me it's people who go from dealer to dealer because one dealership has voided their warranty. I assured her that was not the case, so she showed me a printout of all the dealers this car had been to. One of the supposed dealerships was THE PORT OF ENTRY into the states. I hope when I'm done that this stupid lying woman no longer has a job.

Can you tell I'm upset?

MEGAREDS

Weird -- was it the very early morning, perhaps -- 3 am - 6 am when you tried to start it? I've got a wild "condensation" theory, but it would require the air to be moist and warm when you shut the car down, and much cooler when you tried to start it back up. (Was there dew on the grass, perhaps?)

Hang in there; there's a Love/Hate thing with this car (dealerships being weak link in the mix). It'll come back around. It's like the "rotary cycle."

As I think you know already, I always recommend letters to Mazda NA for serious complaints -- cc: the dealership if you're really pissed off. You'll get a letter back in a few weeks from a corporate-trained person who'll always be polite, and the letter will surely lead off with an apology (of sorts). "We're sorry to hear that you have been having trouble. . . " They'll also record the letter against the dealership so long as you don't come off sounding crazy.

RedSheDevil

Nope middle of the day on the way home from Road America. I'm not disenchanted with the car (though I DO think it's ridiculous that they didn't figure out the flooding thing before mass producing the car) just the crappy dealerships ...

SSRX8NC

I too am having the same problem as we speak. I had mine towed to the dealership late last night. I just got the new plugs starter and batt about a month ago. This was the first time it has flooded since the new "upgrades" but the 4th time overall. It's really starting to get old. I can't wait to see what they can tell me now. It sucks when you know more about what's going on with the car than the dealership :P Yet they treat you like your an idiot. I'll keep you guys updated...