tominavl

After being chastised by the dealer on this whole gasoline issue, I was surprised to learn that the only reason my car wouldn't start was....a 10 amp fuse was blown!

The dealer was prepared to blame me for burning regular grade gas which he insists will foul up the plugs and cause flooding. I say that is a lot of crap, after all, the flooding issues present in the '04 and early '05 builds was not caused by the grade of fuel, but by other things that have been discussed in this thread. So after all that, I get my car back from the dealer, and after getting a little atttitude when I asked WHICH fuse, he told me it was the one that controls the fuel pump. Meaning NO FUEL was getting to my engine = no start.

Sorry to all of you that had to get involved in this case of poor dealership relations. Next time they should leave their assumptions to themselves and not try and blame their customers when something goes wrong.

BTW, for the record I take the engine to redline several times a week, and only when it is warm. Probably the best way to keep the plugs clean. And I plan to continue to burn regular grade fuel. If the plugs foul, then my bad, I'll just clean or replace them! The less the dealer messes with my car, the better.

msrecant

They still probably think it's your fault. Obviously having to pump regular gas (vs premium) overstressed the fuel pump and blew the fuse.

Seriously, your incident shows two things. First, how everyone (dealership, me, other people on this forum) thinks that when an 8 doesn't start it must be flooded. Second, the wild conjecture that people will accept as to the cause of the flood (running regular gas). An amazingly emotional topic.

Thanks for the original post and the followup. It helps put perspective on the whole issue ... that sometime cars (with any type of engine) fail to start and simply need to be fixed.

DrRadar

My 8 flooded after being driven over 100 miles and then parked over weekend.
On monday it would not start. I tried the dechoking procedure as shown on the "Update DVD" I was sent and it wouldn't start.
It was towed to the dealership with flooding as the diagnosis.
Then I was given the "idiot speech" about flooding from the service guy.
Boy was I pissed. I am always careful about this.

msrecant

tominavl reported a similar incident that ultimately turned out not to be a flood.

What year is your 8? If its build date was before 4/2005, have you had the TSB flooding updates done? Is your dealer really sure that it was flooded (tominavl has a blown fuel pump fuse, other people have had dead batteries) or did they just jump to that conclusion?

thebiggdaddy

I have four quick questions...i apologize if these questions have been answered already.

1) What exactly is engine flooding? i was reading most of these posts, but i couldnt find a good explanation of what it exactly is.

2) Ive noticed that this has been happening on '04 Rx-8s. I remember a mazda salesperson told me that mazda stopped making rx-8's from years '04-'05 to fix the engine. I was wondering if there are any engine floodings that have occured on the '05 and '06 rx-8's. btw, i have an '06. Please post any.

3) Does this mean that the car always has to be warmed up no matter if the engine is broken in? If that is the case, frankly im disappointed to read how much work has to be put in for it to function properly. I just got my 8 three weeks ago, and I just feel like it's just too much effort.

4) What does TSB mean? The posts say that i can have the battery/starter upgraded for free under warranty. Is this upgrade applicable if the engine hasnt flooded yet? Can i still have this upgrade for free to be safe for any future mishaps?

If someone could respond as soon as possible, that would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time.

msrecant

Flooding is when the car will not start because of too much fuel trapped in the combustion chamber.

I believe the salesman is refering to the fire in the RENESIS manufacturing plant that shut down engine production for several months and has nothing to do with flooding. Mazda has made 4-5 major upgrades over time to address flooding with the last being introduced into production in March 2005. That is why newer cars, or older cars with the updates applied (there is a TSB) have no/less flooding problems. Between the upgrades and education the problem has almost been eliminated.

I believe that Mazda still recommends that short trips (cutting the engine off cold) should be avoided. As your 8 is a new '06 you would know better than I. Does your Quick-Tips guide still say that short-trips should be avoided? Some people with older 8s have never followed this and have never flooded. Other people (like myself) who have had all the upgrades done still do it just to be safe. Your choice.

TSB stands for Technical Service Bulletin. You can see the list at http://www.finishlineperformance.com...ins_index.html . The one relating to flooding is "Engine Cranks No Start". Many dealers will do the upgrades (battery, starter and plugs) as long as you are still under warranty and you reference some form of starting difficulty (slow starting). Some deaqlers refuse but people have successfully gotten the upgrades authorized by calling the MNAO 800 number and requesting the upgrades to improve their starting. With the recent press releases about the engine recall there has been language that battery and starters will also be checked when they do the engine testing. I don't know if that implies they will be unconditionally upgrading cars to avoid flooding issues.

Since you have an '06, you already have all the upgrades, plus you should have gotten new plugs installed just before you picked up your car.

ssnrx8

Had the recall 4206F done on my 04, They also did the "engine cranks, no start" (Bulletin 01-004/05). Battery was okay but they replaced the starter with replacement of the two leading plugs per 01-004/05. They also did the PCM reflash per 4206F. I've had no loss of power or idle problems. I also have not experiened hard starting. However I have been religious about not starting the engine and shutting it down before it is warmed up.

Rx-8 Captain

sry if this question has been asked but there are just to many pages in here. im kinda a newb when it comes to manuals ( i have driven my dads volvo s40 a little so i know how to use a manual just not really well yet). my question is if i stall an rx-8 either an 05 or an 06 will it flood the engine.

Racer X-8

No, don't worry about that. Just re-start it, especially if the engine has not reached normal operating temperature (temp. gage). The flooding problem is from turning off a "cold" engine, don't let it turn off cold for very long. That's all.

Roxie79

Sorry if I repeat something, but my attention span wouldn't survive reading all the posts. I flooded my MT a few months after owning the car. I used the RX8 to jump a cycle, feeding gas once. The next time I went to start the car, it cut off 2 sec.s later. I had it towed to the dealer who stated they flushed everything and installed a quicker starter as well, to help the system clear out on a crank faster to limit flooding. But yes, flooding is a common problem for rotary's, particularly in the cold weather where a trip to the corner store may not allow the engine to warm up. Bottom line, be conscious of your temp gauge.

NMOcho

I have experienced my engine shutting off twice after driving errands in about 100 degree days .. Last time I had been driving the car for most of the day shopping. So 10 minute to 20 minute between each stop. I then hopped on the freeway doing 70 or so for about 15 minutes then pulled up to a stop light and car rpms jumped on idle and motor stopped... Car then would not start. I tried the "flooded" start method ect. Nothing.. Engine would turn over and over but never start. It was very similar to vapor lock. Maybe flooded after so many attempts to start. After 20 minutes and waiting for the police to show up to get me out of traffic. The car started. That's when I bypassed the coolant to the throttle body and haven’t had the problem again.

Delmeister

I need to change my vote because my car had always started at the time I voted. It didn't matter if I only drove it for 2 seconds and shut it off, or if the outside temperature was minus 25C. It went through several hard winters in deep snow, salt, slush, and cold with never a starting issue.

Then for no reason at all, after being parked overnight in the garage, on a warm spring afternoon, it would not start, and the Mazda no-start procedure would not work. I removed the plugs which looked OK except for being wet with gas. I dried them and squirted some oil in the sparkplug hole, but it did no good. The car had to be towed to the dealer who also could not start it. They replaced the spark plugs and the starter and got it going.

The car started well but a few months later I had the car in a body shop. They drove it in after the car sat overnight. Did a bit of work on it and then could not start it again. They called me and I was able to start it, but it took a bit of doing. There has since been an emissions recall, and the car was reflashed with the most current flash. Apparently this flash again recognizes the no-start problem and does something to help revent it. We'll see, but I don't have the confidence in this car starting that I used to have.

So is there a mechanism for changing your vote?

demob05

Sorry if I'm rehasing something from like the 10,000 posts on this issue, but I recall that someone w/ significant rotary background mentioned something to watch out for after a flooding, esp. with the Renesis.
After a flooding, the the excess remaining fuels would swamp the apex seals, in addition to the plugs, and would eventually result in excessive wear on the seals as the seals would then dry out. Any additional information on this?

swoope

iTrader: (5)

no the apex seals would not dry out if you flood the motor..

they would be wet.

they just dont seal very well... and the plugs dont fire well, because they are wet.


beers

demob05

Actually, what I meant was that AFTER the flooding, when the seals would eventually dry out. In other words, the drying out after the initial moisture/condensation (from flooding) may lead to excessive wear on the seals, making them more brittle and suspectible to premature deterioration. This is what I recall from a post a year ago.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

no oil would be injected as always... when the motor runs oil is injected....

brittle is not an issue.. seal on not seal... the cars that flood. burn cats...

?s pm me.

beers

Racer X-8

er . uh . I think demob05 is refering to the washing-away of the oil film in there. The gas washes it out and obviously, that's not a good thing. I thnik the TSB says to suck some oil into the intake manifold (good old Engine Cranks No Start bulletin 01-004/05, sheets 8-10, "Repair Procedure B", steps 1-9) ( http://www.finishlineperformance.com...4-05-1448e.pdf ).

The apex seal is not made from a material that would be affected by direct exposure to gasoline - it's a kind of metalic substance, I think, in that, there is no change to their physical characteristics (ie: getting brittle, like some type of elastomer?) after being immersed in gasoline. The only other thing I'm thinking is that the elevated heat of the seal, generated by increased friction, might cause a metalurgical change. I can't answer that one, though it sounds like a far stretch to me.

bluesman2045

my 8 had same prolem got it started by dechocking as per manuel now have engine lite on will it reboot or is a trip to mazda in my future car just had 15k checkup plugs replaced and newest flash can anybody tell me if the light will go out by it self or not did anybody else have this problem

Go48

If the engine flooded, the light may be due to a failed catalytic converter resulting indirectly from the flooding. Only way to know is to read the DTC (trouble code) associated with the check engine light. Take it to a dealer or to an auto parts store that has a CAN bus-compatible OBDII scanner. That's the best way to determine if the check engine light is for a transient or a permanent problem.

Ninth

i flooded my engine, i have an 04 with 35k miles, will getting that repaired be covered by warranty?

Go48

The generic answer is YES. However, if you run into a hard nosed dealer, go elsewhere. The "fix" should include a new starter, spark plugs and probably a new battery. And they should check the cat converter. There is a service bulletin that deals with this problem so the dealer should take care of it according to the bulletin.

Racer X-8

The afformentioned Bulletin is hyperlinked in my post dated 10-9-06 above (post #1376).

Oh heck, here it is again... http://www.finishlineperformance.com...4-05-1448e.pdf

MX6_2_RX8

Mine just "flooded" for the second time. The reason for the quotes is that I just had it in for the engine recall and an oil change and when I got it back it smoked but i thought that they had just spilled some oil when they changed it. It also seemed to start hard. I drove it for 45 min and it still smoked at the end of the trip - not good. It started hard the next time I started it but I was busy so i did my errend and parked it for a day. The next time I went to start it it didn't. I looked under the car and there was used oil dripping off the frame. I checked the oil level and it was at about 1/4 full. Then to top it off - the pain in the ***, not the oil, Mazda roadside didn't show up and it turns out that they never dispatched a call. GRrrrrrr

Racer X-8

Man, I don't know if this recall is a good thing. Seems like a whole lot of people are experiencing MAJOR engine problems AFTER they get their car back from the recall service. I'm scared to take mine in now...

MX6_2_RX8

Hey Racer, I gave up a while ago reading the thousands of posts concerning this. Can you point me in the direction of some of the horror stories? I just looked at the Recall Complete thread and most of those seemed to do OK.