Smutterbutter Build
03-30-2013, 08:56 PM
#26
the sludge is a bit weird, but clean it out replace bearing, done... make sure to grease up the new bearing.
you engine reminds me of a 12A, i haven't seen peeled housings like that on a 13B ever, so lucky you. i have a theory the peeling was/is caused by a marginal cooling system, so it doesn't overheat, but it chronically runs hot.
you should also carefully inspect all the metering lines and injectors, or just replace
you engine reminds me of a 12A, i haven't seen peeled housings like that on a 13B ever, so lucky you. i have a theory the peeling was/is caused by a marginal cooling system, so it doesn't overheat, but it chronically runs hot.
you should also carefully inspect all the metering lines and injectors, or just replace
Mazda made some changes later, just not sure if they made it "Thicker" or not. later revision housing "seems" to last longer, better process maybe? who knows.
03-30-2013, 11:10 PM
#27
Listen...you smell that?
Thread Starter
Forgot to throw in a pic of the rear iron. At first glance didn't look horrible but did see a pretty visible groove that has formed by the exhaust port. Haven't measured the step wear yet so we'll see, but I'm not sure the 0.002 of material removed during lapping would make that disappear.
Middle iron. I was worried what this was going to look like after discovering all three corner seals on the front face of the rear rotor were broken. Just like the rear iron at first glance seems ok but again that groove in the exhaust port is even more pronounced. Plenty of carbon buildup too.
Middle iron. I was worried what this was going to look like after discovering all three corner seals on the front face of the rear rotor were broken. Just like the rear iron at first glance seems ok but again that groove in the exhaust port is even more pronounced. Plenty of carbon buildup too.
03-30-2013, 11:23 PM
#29
Listen...you smell that?
Thread Starter
Took a little careful wiggling but the Eshaft came out unharmed. I'm still waiting for the V-blocks to come in to measure runout but the journal surfaces look pretty good.
03-31-2013, 03:04 PM
#30
Super Moderator
Mr Smutter GREAT PICS M8...love the camera work!..
What are the Bearings like in Rotors and Stationary Gears?
You are the 3rd owner (yes?), what interest me about later Rotaries is how clean (in 9 out of 10 cases) the water galleries (coolant) are, I guess you don't know 'if' coolant was ever flushed or changed?..virtually zero corrosion....a 1000% improvement.
Yep, the MOP injector lines are crap, and generally will not last past a decade (or less)...it is basically the same material for the past 40 years, now with banjo's and a one way valve (S1)...with the Series 2's having EMOP's on top of barrel the injector lines are very short (< 6 inches) and have no valves....but still in plastic.
Thank you.
What are the Bearings like in Rotors and Stationary Gears?
You are the 3rd owner (yes?), what interest me about later Rotaries is how clean (in 9 out of 10 cases) the water galleries (coolant) are, I guess you don't know 'if' coolant was ever flushed or changed?..virtually zero corrosion....a 1000% improvement.
Yep, the MOP injector lines are crap, and generally will not last past a decade (or less)...it is basically the same material for the past 40 years, now with banjo's and a one way valve (S1)...with the Series 2's having EMOP's on top of barrel the injector lines are very short (< 6 inches) and have no valves....but still in plastic.
Thank you.
03-31-2013, 07:03 PM
#31
pretty clean rotors for the milage.
lead sparkplug hole doesnt have cracks does it?
Some evidence of the oil getting a little hot i see
dont get me wrong man--but i think you may be better off just getting a reman and rebuilding it?
by the way--great pics and thanks for sharing your teardown like this.
dont forget to check your oil injectors
lead sparkplug hole doesnt have cracks does it?
Some evidence of the oil getting a little hot i see
dont get me wrong man--but i think you may be better off just getting a reman and rebuilding it?
by the way--great pics and thanks for sharing your teardown like this.
dont forget to check your oil injectors
03-31-2013, 07:24 PM
#32
Listen...you smell that?
Thread Starter
pretty clean rotors for the milage.
lead sparkplug hole doesnt have cracks does it?
Some evidence of the oil getting a little hot i see
dont get me wrong man--but i think you may be better off just getting a reman and rebuilding it?
by the way--great pics and thanks for sharing your teardown like this.
dont forget to check your oil injectors
lead sparkplug hole doesnt have cracks does it?
Some evidence of the oil getting a little hot i see
dont get me wrong man--but i think you may be better off just getting a reman and rebuilding it?
by the way--great pics and thanks for sharing your teardown like this.
dont forget to check your oil injectors
I'm with you on the idea of just getting a reman. Especially if any one of the three irons can't be reused. Once I figure that out I'm just going to have decided how much do I really want to build my own engine. That's really what I set out to do since I feel like I've been building up to this over the last decade. There is that very real possibility though that I could end up spending what it would've cost me to get an engine from a builder like Pettit, and screwing something up and then be out a few grand and STILL have a car with no motor...Decisions, decisions.
03-31-2013, 07:54 PM
#33
Listen...you smell that?
Thread Starter
Front Housing, more of the same...
Also discovered another broken corner seal from the front face of the front rotor AND a broken Apex seal as well. I'm wondering if it happened recently because the surface of the housing didn't look to gouged up other than the severe flakage.
Also discovered another broken corner seal from the front face of the front rotor AND a broken Apex seal as well. I'm wondering if it happened recently because the surface of the housing didn't look to gouged up other than the severe flakage.
03-31-2013, 08:07 PM
#34
Listen...you smell that?
Thread Starter
Mmmmm...shiny!
Noticed one small half circumferential scratch on one of the rotor bearings. Probably my fault at some point during disassembly/handling?
Noticed one small half circumferential scratch on one of the rotor bearings. Probably my fault at some point during disassembly/handling?
04-01-2013, 04:24 PM
#37
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
Good thread man.
Man, just get a rebuild from a reputable builder. You won't save much doing it yourself and there is always a chance of screwing something up. The housings are done for sure, just check the step wear on the irons and then you will know for sure what your rebuild costs will be around. The eshaft is cheap, no point in using that one.
Man, just get a rebuild from a reputable builder. You won't save much doing it yourself and there is always a chance of screwing something up. The housings are done for sure, just check the step wear on the irons and then you will know for sure what your rebuild costs will be around. The eshaft is cheap, no point in using that one.
04-01-2013, 06:52 PM
#38
Listen...you smell that?
Thread Starter
Good thread man.
Man, just get a rebuild from a reputable builder. You won't save much doing it yourself and there is always a chance of screwing something up. The housings are done for sure, just check the step wear on the irons and then you will know for sure what your rebuild costs will be around. The eshaft is cheap, no point in using that one.
Man, just get a rebuild from a reputable builder. You won't save much doing it yourself and there is always a chance of screwing something up. The housings are done for sure, just check the step wear on the irons and then you will know for sure what your rebuild costs will be around. The eshaft is cheap, no point in using that one.
Hopefully sometime in the next few days I'll have time to clean up those irons, measure the step wear and continue moving forward.
04-01-2013, 07:21 PM
#39
rev it up
so what modifications are required to avoid such wear issues.
I think a well balanced motor should make a big differance. It will be interesting to see a breakdown of a properly built an balanced motor as a comparison.
I think a well balanced motor should make a big differance. It will be interesting to see a breakdown of a properly built an balanced motor as a comparison.
04-01-2013, 08:17 PM
#41
balancing is one thing, CLEARANCE is another thing to do, just to be sure that the rotors will never have a chance to touch anything.
ur irons will look much better if u do the work on the rotating assembly, but that's another couple hundred bux on top of whatever u were doing. and honestly if ur car is mostly just stock and just goes to couple autox or track days. unless u r a perfectionist, I don't see any point of spending the few hundred bux on the work. ur engine gonna look like crap after 100-150+K anyway. might as well save those money for a new Iron or re-nitrite down the road.
Last edited by nycgps; 04-01-2013 at 08:20 PM.
04-01-2013, 08:51 PM
#42
Listen...you smell that?
Thread Starter
I'm not sure what you need to do to get branded by mazda, but one thing is for certain, the original owner beat this thing to death while probably neglecting the oil level and coolant system.
04-01-2013, 10:26 PM
#43
rev it up
I like the modifications Xtreme Rotaries do to improve the roraty engine: Xtreme Rotaries - Side Clearancing
The extra detail in stepping in the corner seal should prevent some of the wear issues. They also do a lot of other good stuff as well.
The extra detail in stepping in the corner seal should prevent some of the wear issues. They also do a lot of other good stuff as well.
04-01-2013, 10:51 PM
#45
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
Does the front cover have the reman plate on it or did one of the housings have a weird coin glued to it? The plate from the mazda reman plant is common, the coin glued to the housing is rare but we did see it on a local engine we tore apart.
04-02-2013, 06:40 PM
#47
Ha---if you do let me know
If this engine was branded by Mazda then ---yep something was up--dont know what but something.
The sides of the rotors sure are super clean--------- yall must have good gas up that way.
If this engine was branded by Mazda then ---yep something was up--dont know what but something.
The sides of the rotors sure are super clean--------- yall must have good gas up that way.
Last edited by olddragger; 04-02-2013 at 06:50 PM.
04-09-2013, 12:39 AM
#49
Looks good so far!
My $.02 if you are confident enough to tear apart and engine you can put one back together.
Get your irons lapped and nitrated, if you have anything over .003 of wear on the irons.
Get new housings and spec out your rotors, get OEM mazda seals and do the rebuild yourself.
It's a fun way to bond with your car.
My $.02 if you are confident enough to tear apart and engine you can put one back together.
Get your irons lapped and nitrated, if you have anything over .003 of wear on the irons.
Get new housings and spec out your rotors, get OEM mazda seals and do the rebuild yourself.
It's a fun way to bond with your car
.
04-09-2013, 08:04 AM
#50
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