Renesis engine issues finally identified?
03-22-2008, 12:20 AM
#252
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I just finished browsing through this whole thread because it seems to be a hot spot of information. However now that I am finished I have a few questions.
First, with the new 2009 RX-8 set to hit the dealers around June 2008, what (if any) changes do you think will need to be made to the oiling regimen for this car? Should pre-mix be done away with? Will synthetic still be the best oiling choice?
Second, with regards to the center injector, would there be a chance for increased fouling of the spark plugs because of the oil being directly applied to the surface that's crossing the plugs? Will we see a noticable temp. rise/drop in oil temperatures with this new injection system?
Third, after reading through here about premixing and potential problems with clogging fuel filters/fuel pumps I was wondering if this could be due to a specific combination of the additives of gas and premix? With that in mid, which brands of fuel are you guys filling up with? I know Exxon, Shell, BP, CONOCO, Chevron are the most major ones in the US. If you do have some specific gasoline additive related knowledge, please share which company makes the best gas for premixing with.
Last, I wanted to say that TC-W3 is a rating done by the National Marine Manufacturers Association for marine 2-stroke oil and unless I'm mistaken, marine 2-stroke oil is bad for premixing *cough*icemark*cough*
First, with the new 2009 RX-8 set to hit the dealers around June 2008, what (if any) changes do you think will need to be made to the oiling regimen for this car? Should pre-mix be done away with? Will synthetic still be the best oiling choice?
Second, with regards to the center injector, would there be a chance for increased fouling of the spark plugs because of the oil being directly applied to the surface that's crossing the plugs? Will we see a noticable temp. rise/drop in oil temperatures with this new injection system?
Third, after reading through here about premixing and potential problems with clogging fuel filters/fuel pumps I was wondering if this could be due to a specific combination of the additives of gas and premix? With that in mid, which brands of fuel are you guys filling up with? I know Exxon, Shell, BP, CONOCO, Chevron are the most major ones in the US. If you do have some specific gasoline additive related knowledge, please share which company makes the best gas for premixing with.
Last, I wanted to say that TC-W3 is a rating done by the National Marine Manufacturers Association for marine 2-stroke oil and unless I'm mistaken, marine 2-stroke oil is bad for premixing *cough*icemark*cough*
03-22-2008, 09:10 AM
#253
Got Another Rotary
I just finished browsing through this whole thread because it seems to be a hot spot of information. However now that I am finished I have a few questions.
First, with the new 2009 RX-8 set to hit the dealers around June 2008, what (if any) changes do you think will need to be made to the oiling regimen for this car? Should pre-mix be done away with? Will synthetic still be the best oiling choice?
Second, with regards to the center injector, would there be a chance for increased fouling of the spark plugs because of the oil being directly applied to the surface that's crossing the plugs? Will we see a noticable temp. rise/drop in oil temperatures with this new injection system?
Third, after reading through here about premixing and potential problems with clogging fuel filters/fuel pumps I was wondering if this could be due to a specific combination of the additives of gas and premix? With that in mid, which brands of fuel are you guys filling up with? I know Exxon, Shell, BP, CONOCO, Chevron are the most major ones in the US. If you do have some specific gasoline additive related knowledge, please share which company makes the best gas for premixing with.
Last, I wanted to say that TC-W3 is a rating done by the National Marine Manufacturers Association for marine 2-stroke oil and unless I'm mistaken, marine 2-stroke oil is bad for premixing *cough*icemark*cough*
First, with the new 2009 RX-8 set to hit the dealers around June 2008, what (if any) changes do you think will need to be made to the oiling regimen for this car? Should pre-mix be done away with? Will synthetic still be the best oiling choice?
Second, with regards to the center injector, would there be a chance for increased fouling of the spark plugs because of the oil being directly applied to the surface that's crossing the plugs? Will we see a noticable temp. rise/drop in oil temperatures with this new injection system?
Third, after reading through here about premixing and potential problems with clogging fuel filters/fuel pumps I was wondering if this could be due to a specific combination of the additives of gas and premix? With that in mid, which brands of fuel are you guys filling up with? I know Exxon, Shell, BP, CONOCO, Chevron are the most major ones in the US. If you do have some specific gasoline additive related knowledge, please share which company makes the best gas for premixing with.
Last, I wanted to say that TC-W3 is a rating done by the National Marine Manufacturers Association for marine 2-stroke oil and unless I'm mistaken, marine 2-stroke oil is bad for premixing *cough*icemark*cough*
First, I think the 3rd oil injector will help, but the main issue is the sparing use of oil to meet emissions requirements - I would still premix, maybe just a little less. On Synthetic, make your choice and go.
Second, No and No - earlier rotary's on had one injector and it was in the center, before that they were vacuumed in under the carb. Oil temps have nothing to do with oil injection placement or rates
Third, No - the fuel filter clogging issues are more a function of dirt in the fuel combined with some premixes that don't mix as well (miscibility) due to use of long carbon chain oils (above 12) - the only way the fuel can create clogging issues is if you are using very stale fuel that is varnishing, but this tend to affect injectors (due to smaller size) more than fuel filters
Last, TCW-3 oils are not by design a problem for cats - some 2-cycle oils used metallic barrier protection additives like ZDDP, sulphur, etc that over time will kill a cat. The better 2-cycle oils (synthetic esters mostly) don't require as much or any of these ingredients, thus they are better for cat longevity. You see, many of these oil are designed for motors that don't have cats and so they don't worry about that - the key is to assure the oil is cat safe by asking or looking at the key ingredients.
03-22-2008, 12:37 PM
#254
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Jax RX8,
I think you might have interpreted differently the concern about the center injector. Like you said, on the old rotary there was a center injector. However this is not 3 injectors, and from what I understand, on the stock cars currently mazda runs them really rich at high rpm. So, obviously if this is a cure for increased wear across the center of the apex seal, there's going to be more oil at the middle of the seal. And if there is more oil at the middle of the seal, in combination with the other 2 injectors putting oil in and the rich fuel curve, would that lead to more fouling?
On the third point, if it is a function of something in the fuel, in this case dirt instead of detergent, which company is putting out the cleanest gas? I know that might be a little bit of filling station based, but there are still government minimums that those stations have to pass to use those pumps.
I think you might have interpreted differently the concern about the center injector. Like you said, on the old rotary there was a center injector. However this is not 3 injectors, and from what I understand, on the stock cars currently mazda runs them really rich at high rpm. So, obviously if this is a cure for increased wear across the center of the apex seal, there's going to be more oil at the middle of the seal. And if there is more oil at the middle of the seal, in combination with the other 2 injectors putting oil in and the rich fuel curve, would that lead to more fouling?
On the third point, if it is a function of something in the fuel, in this case dirt instead of detergent, which company is putting out the cleanest gas? I know that might be a little bit of filling station based, but there are still government minimums that those stations have to pass to use those pumps.
03-22-2008, 03:19 PM
#255
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I think you might have interpreted differently the concern about the center injector. Like you said, on the old rotary there was a center injector. However this is not 3 injectors, and from what I understand, on the stock cars currently mazda runs them really rich at high rpm. So, obviously if this is a cure for increased wear across the center of the apex seal, there's going to be more oil at the middle of the seal. And if there is more oil at the middle of the seal, in combination with the other 2 injectors putting oil in and the rich fuel curve, would that lead to more fouling?
03-22-2008, 04:34 PM
#256
Got Another Rotary
Jax RX8,
I think you might have interpreted differently the concern about the center injector. Like you said, on the old rotary there was a center injector. However this is not 3 injectors, and from what I understand, on the stock cars currently mazda runs them really rich at high rpm. So, obviously if this is a cure for increased wear across the center of the apex seal, there's going to be more oil at the middle of the seal. And if there is more oil at the middle of the seal, in combination with the other 2 injectors putting oil in and the rich fuel curve, would that lead to more fouling?
On the third point, if it is a function of something in the fuel, in this case dirt instead of detergent, which company is putting out the cleanest gas? I know that might be a little bit of filling station based, but there are still government minimums that those stations have to pass to use those pumps.
I think you might have interpreted differently the concern about the center injector. Like you said, on the old rotary there was a center injector. However this is not 3 injectors, and from what I understand, on the stock cars currently mazda runs them really rich at high rpm. So, obviously if this is a cure for increased wear across the center of the apex seal, there's going to be more oil at the middle of the seal. And if there is more oil at the middle of the seal, in combination with the other 2 injectors putting oil in and the rich fuel curve, would that lead to more fouling?
On the third point, if it is a function of something in the fuel, in this case dirt instead of detergent, which company is putting out the cleanest gas? I know that might be a little bit of filling station based, but there are still government minimums that those stations have to pass to use those pumps.
2. Every gas company uses the same exact same gas supply for a given region - the only difference between brands is the additive pack they add into the delivery trucks before delivery to each brands gas stations - so no brands base gas is any "cleaner" than the others. That said, using the busiest gas station in town is what will buy you the freshest gas for your area, independent of brand. While some brands to have more and better additives, I do think the "freshness" of the gas is more important than the additive pack provided, so I buy from a very busy gas station and add my own gas cleaning additives so the quality of the original brands additive pack just really does not matter.
Hope this helps.
03-22-2008, 05:25 PM
#257
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1. I do not think the little extra oil in the center of the Apex seal would cause plugs to be any more prone to fouling, even though it would drag right across the plug hole (I think this is what you are getting at) - it may even keep the plugs cleaner as oil is generally not the issue for the carbon generation, the gas burning is.
2. Every gas company uses the same exact same gas supply for a given region - the only difference between brands is the additive pack they add into the delivery trucks before delivery to each brands gas stations - so no brands base gas is any "cleaner" than the others. That said, using the busiest gas station in town is what will buy you the freshest gas for your area, independent of brand. While some brands to have more and better additives, I do think the "freshness" of the gas is more important than the additive pack provided, so I buy from a very busy gas station and add my own gas cleaning additives so the quality of the original brands additive pack just really does not matter.
Hope this helps.
2. Every gas company uses the same exact same gas supply for a given region - the only difference between brands is the additive pack they add into the delivery trucks before delivery to each brands gas stations - so no brands base gas is any "cleaner" than the others. That said, using the busiest gas station in town is what will buy you the freshest gas for your area, independent of brand. While some brands to have more and better additives, I do think the "freshness" of the gas is more important than the additive pack provided, so I buy from a very busy gas station and add my own gas cleaning additives so the quality of the original brands additive pack just really does not matter.
Hope this helps.
03-22-2008, 06:05 PM
#258
Super Moderator
Confirmed Mechanical changes from Mazda on the 09 RX-8.
Electric MOP with 3 Injectors (which we know)
New Water pump
Changes to oil pan.
Transmission
Appear to be changes (albeit slight) to the intake manifold butterfly and actuators.
Under car floor pan covers.
Electric MOP with 3 Injectors (which we know)
New Water pump
Changes to oil pan.
Transmission
Appear to be changes (albeit slight) to the intake manifold butterfly and actuators.
Under car floor pan covers.
02-15-2010, 06:25 PM
#260
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very informative hypothesis. Do you know what % of RX's (of the total made worldwide) had "the troubles"? And at what mileages?
I originally posted most of this in a different thread in the disucssion section before I realized that this is probably something that everyone should study up on. In a moment of rotary clarity I think I figured out why the Renesis dynos inconsistently, has inconsistent mileage numbers reported, has people reporting random engine failures, has dealerships telling people they need new engines even though they seem to run, and why people that premix have seemed to report better mileage. It all has to do with one thing. The oil metering system. The new setup on the updated engine for 09 and the same system on the 16X led me to this conclusion. It's so simple. I've know all of this for years and yet I've never actually tried to tie it together. Until now. Keep in mind this is all a hypothesis on my part and nothing more. It is my personal interpretation of what is happening based on the facts that I see.
The updated Renesis for 09 had added 2 more oil injectors. Take a look at the 16x pictures and you'll see how they are now done. The 4 on the engine now are in the same place. There is now 1 in the middle of the housing but not directly between them. It's a little higher up on the housing. This way the middle of the apex seal gets lubricated. This is how it should have always been done as the middle is where the apex seal is hottest and needs the most lubrication. The 13B engines had their oil injectors centered on the housing but only 1 on each. On the 1st and 2nd gen RX-7's there was also an injector in each primary intake runner on the lower intake manifold. This way oil got mixed with the air well and directly lubricated the center of the apex seal.
The reason why the Renesis has both of it's oil injectors pointing diagonally towards the sides is actually to lubricate and cool the corner seals which now get exposed to hot exhaust gasses. They don't on a peripheral port engine. The downside to this was that some of this oil doesn't get burned nearly as well as it does getting injected directly into the center of the housing. This could lead to the side seals getting carbon locked. This led to the development of the wedge shaped side seal on the Renesis that helps force carbon out of the side seal grooves. The effects of this oil injection technique issue is still seen on the Renesis however in the form of carbon buildup in the intake and exhaust ports.
Since much of the oil metering goes towards the sides of the rotors and little actually lubricates the apex seals where they need it the most, they have a tendency to warp a little bit and wear faster. This can have multiple issues. An obvious one is potential engine longevity. Another issue is compression. As these seals get too hot and warp slightly, they don't seal as well and the engine doesn't build the dynamic compression ratio that it should have if the seals were lubricated properly. This is most certainly one reason why there are inconsistent power numbers from various cars. Along with this, mileage may also suffer to an extent. This hypothesis seems to be reinforced by the fact that many people that premix tend to get better gas mileage. Their apex seals are lubricated properly. These engines also show less wear upon teardown.
The oil metering pumps on the RX-8 also seem to be inconsistent. Some people report little to no oil consumption from the OMP. This is only making the apex seal issue worse. While the engine may run for a long time this way, fatigue is slowly setting in. Nothing may be noticable as power may only be down slightly. At some point this fatigue may rear it's ugly head all at once in the form of a broken apex seal. This too seems to be supported by the randomness in which engines have been reported to fail.
Also take oil temperatures into account. Too high oil temperatures aren't good. The oil in a rotary rejects about a third of the total engine heat. That's alot. If the apex seals are already too hot, and additional engine heat is going to be exagerrated even more. Not good news on the apex seals.
When you put all of this together you can really paint a good picture as to what has been going on with all of the power irregularities on the dyno, the mileage inconsistencies that are reported, the engine failures reported, and the engines that dealers have said need to be replaced even though the cars seemed to run fine to the owners. It all fits together and is tied to the location of the oil metering jets.
The solution seems obvious now. Lubricate the apex seals where it's needed most. The center. They are keeping the oil metering jets that are already saving the corner seals but now they are finally dealing with the apex seals. The rotary was always a very reliable engine. Why? The RX-7's lubricated the center of the apex seals. The race engines all use premix which also lubricates the center of the seals. Proper attention yields reliable results. We could even go so far as to tie in a correlelation with the people that report flooding issues more easily than others as that too is compression related.
The apex seals apparently just get enough oil to be fine. This assumes everything works properly though. Any little issues at all can change this in a hurry. A few degrees in engine temp from overly hot oil, an improperly working oil metering pump, etc can all lead to issues. Some issues may be minor and as such may lead to minor power or compression losses. Other more serious issues may kill the engine entirely.
I for one am very happy to see this new setup. It shows that they've analyzed the issue extensively and are taking care of it. What "should" we expect to see with these changes to the oil metering system? We should see more consistent gas mileage reported. We should see more consistent dyno results and the average will probably be higher than what it is now. Probably more on par with the few people that have gotten higher numbers than the rest. We should see fewer engine failures. Keep in mind I'm using the word "should" and not "will". Time will tell but I'm excited.
The one piece of advice that I'd give now that I know this is just to be on the safe side, premix!
Here is a temperature chart on apex seals. It shows the importance of oil metering in the proper location. I am also including a link to a Mazda test chart that shows the effect of oil metering on apex seal temperature as well as what the ideal ratios are for these tests.
http://rotaryeng.net/Sealtemp-verse-oil-vol.jpg
The updated Renesis for 09 had added 2 more oil injectors. Take a look at the 16x pictures and you'll see how they are now done. The 4 on the engine now are in the same place. There is now 1 in the middle of the housing but not directly between them. It's a little higher up on the housing. This way the middle of the apex seal gets lubricated. This is how it should have always been done as the middle is where the apex seal is hottest and needs the most lubrication. The 13B engines had their oil injectors centered on the housing but only 1 on each. On the 1st and 2nd gen RX-7's there was also an injector in each primary intake runner on the lower intake manifold. This way oil got mixed with the air well and directly lubricated the center of the apex seal.
The reason why the Renesis has both of it's oil injectors pointing diagonally towards the sides is actually to lubricate and cool the corner seals which now get exposed to hot exhaust gasses. They don't on a peripheral port engine. The downside to this was that some of this oil doesn't get burned nearly as well as it does getting injected directly into the center of the housing. This could lead to the side seals getting carbon locked. This led to the development of the wedge shaped side seal on the Renesis that helps force carbon out of the side seal grooves. The effects of this oil injection technique issue is still seen on the Renesis however in the form of carbon buildup in the intake and exhaust ports.
Since much of the oil metering goes towards the sides of the rotors and little actually lubricates the apex seals where they need it the most, they have a tendency to warp a little bit and wear faster. This can have multiple issues. An obvious one is potential engine longevity. Another issue is compression. As these seals get too hot and warp slightly, they don't seal as well and the engine doesn't build the dynamic compression ratio that it should have if the seals were lubricated properly. This is most certainly one reason why there are inconsistent power numbers from various cars. Along with this, mileage may also suffer to an extent. This hypothesis seems to be reinforced by the fact that many people that premix tend to get better gas mileage. Their apex seals are lubricated properly. These engines also show less wear upon teardown.
The oil metering pumps on the RX-8 also seem to be inconsistent. Some people report little to no oil consumption from the OMP. This is only making the apex seal issue worse. While the engine may run for a long time this way, fatigue is slowly setting in. Nothing may be noticable as power may only be down slightly. At some point this fatigue may rear it's ugly head all at once in the form of a broken apex seal. This too seems to be supported by the randomness in which engines have been reported to fail.
Also take oil temperatures into account. Too high oil temperatures aren't good. The oil in a rotary rejects about a third of the total engine heat. That's alot. If the apex seals are already too hot, and additional engine heat is going to be exagerrated even more. Not good news on the apex seals.
When you put all of this together you can really paint a good picture as to what has been going on with all of the power irregularities on the dyno, the mileage inconsistencies that are reported, the engine failures reported, and the engines that dealers have said need to be replaced even though the cars seemed to run fine to the owners. It all fits together and is tied to the location of the oil metering jets.
The solution seems obvious now. Lubricate the apex seals where it's needed most. The center. They are keeping the oil metering jets that are already saving the corner seals but now they are finally dealing with the apex seals. The rotary was always a very reliable engine. Why? The RX-7's lubricated the center of the apex seals. The race engines all use premix which also lubricates the center of the seals. Proper attention yields reliable results. We could even go so far as to tie in a correlelation with the people that report flooding issues more easily than others as that too is compression related.
The apex seals apparently just get enough oil to be fine. This assumes everything works properly though. Any little issues at all can change this in a hurry. A few degrees in engine temp from overly hot oil, an improperly working oil metering pump, etc can all lead to issues. Some issues may be minor and as such may lead to minor power or compression losses. Other more serious issues may kill the engine entirely.
I for one am very happy to see this new setup. It shows that they've analyzed the issue extensively and are taking care of it. What "should" we expect to see with these changes to the oil metering system? We should see more consistent gas mileage reported. We should see more consistent dyno results and the average will probably be higher than what it is now. Probably more on par with the few people that have gotten higher numbers than the rest. We should see fewer engine failures. Keep in mind I'm using the word "should" and not "will". Time will tell but I'm excited.
The one piece of advice that I'd give now that I know this is just to be on the safe side, premix!
Here is a temperature chart on apex seals. It shows the importance of oil metering in the proper location. I am also including a link to a Mazda test chart that shows the effect of oil metering on apex seal temperature as well as what the ideal ratios are for these tests.
http://rotaryeng.net/Sealtemp-verse-oil-vol.jpg
02-15-2010, 06:43 PM
#261
Two Year Old Thread gets bumped 
Might as well post this here since it does relate. On the new modified rotor housings for the 04-08 years, there is a casting change where the third oil injector goes. It is the same location as on the 09's. If one was able to machine the third port and install a third center injector, and then turn up the OMP pump's profile via AccessPort, would there be any benefit? Or would the OMP just not have enough guts to push that much oil? What about adding the Racing Beat mod to the OMP, and then still altering the profile with the AP?
Might as well post this here since it does relate. On the new modified rotor housings for the 04-08 years, there is a casting change where the third oil injector goes. It is the same location as on the 09's. If one was able to machine the third port and install a third center injector, and then turn up the OMP pump's profile via AccessPort, would there be any benefit? Or would the OMP just not have enough guts to push that much oil? What about adding the Racing Beat mod to the OMP, and then still altering the profile with the AP?
02-15-2010, 07:48 PM
#262
Super Moderator
Two Year Old Thread gets bumped
Might as well post this here since it does relate. On the new modified rotor housings for the 04-08 years, there is a casting change where the third oil injector goes. It is the same location as on the 09's. If one was able to machine the third port and install a third center injector, and then turn up the OMP pump's profile via AccessPort, would there be any benefit? Or would the OMP just not have enough guts to push that much oil? What about adding the Racing Beat mod to the OMP, and then still altering the profile with the AP?
Might as well post this here since it does relate. On the new modified rotor housings for the 04-08 years, there is a casting change where the third oil injector goes. It is the same location as on the 09's. If one was able to machine the third port and install a third center injector, and then turn up the OMP pump's profile via AccessPort, would there be any benefit? Or would the OMP just not have enough guts to push that much oil? What about adding the Racing Beat mod to the OMP, and then still altering the profile with the AP?
Somehow I don't think the S1 MOP design has enough output (guts) for 2 more Nozzle/Drippers.
If it did I don't think Mazda would have returned to the drawing board to design their all electric set up used in S2's.
Remember though the S2 EMOP's consist of Two, one does the 4 Nozzles (S1) and the other device does the other 2 Nozzles.
Also the S2's 6 Nozzles themselves are different to the S1's.
I guess it won't be long before someone rebuilds with S2 Rotor Housings, I can't confirm if S1 nozzles will fit in S2 Rotor Housings??
Drilling out the 3rd Nozzle 'thread hole' would be very tricky on an assembled or fitted RENESIS.
02-16-2010, 03:15 AM
#264
Super Moderator
Yeah..Full of it...
Perhaps Team you can point out the errors made...OH hang on you don't do that..you are one of those drive by shooters that are ignored...lol
Perhaps Team you can point out the errors made...OH hang on you don't do that..you are one of those drive by shooters that are ignored...lol
02-18-2010, 06:04 AM
#265
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In addition the rpm staging limit until warm. It's electrical but still key it seems to rotory longevity.
02-18-2010, 06:09 AM
#266
Registered
02-26-2010, 09:08 PM
#267
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2009 Rev- Limit
I think i'm wrong, the limit starts at 5k not 4k. Site below has reference pics. I avoid the showroom when i'm getting parts, and don't want to get sucked into a sales chat.
I know for a fact that my 04 rx8 will rev to redline 9.2k "While cold" as i've done it before, though not with this engine it has now.
for RPM Limit Reference when Cold:
http://www.motivemag.com/pub/feature..._RX-8_R3.shtml
I've been running 2 years now on a reman engine, with Royal Purple synthetic only. I've never thought of premixing. But the changes in 09' can't be waived aside or just ignored, they've obviously found a way to extend the life of the engine for 'NORMAL' drivers that don't get on this forum.. which i consider;
Do not:
1. Keep it under 4k until warm.
2. Redline at-least once a day (carb buildup on 3rd intake ports).
3. Change oil & Filter every 3k religiously.
4. Don't constantly redline in a continuous series (Track day) since the factory water pump has issues above 7k rpm in cycling the water. which was also changed in the similar fashion i've heard as one of the forum sponsors that sells there's as a high rpm solution if you plan on tracking your car.
Teamrx8 and alot of other forum members have been around on the mill with all the gremlins. I don't know if the Mazda Team premixes for there race spec's, but if they do.. it's not just on a whim.
I myself haven't premix, but again only time will tell. i'm 30k on this reman'd motor, and it's been great. which leads me to believe the previous owner didn't manage it in the 4 steps "I Believe" i see as a method of preventing premature failure.
Even if you get meticulous on your engine management. other factors such as (Ignition coil, radiator failure, radiator hoses).. any of those failing could cause unexpected wear.
Hell after my new motor, 1 month back.. my cat failed(clogged) replaced under the 80k emmissions law.
Then the OMP failed within the following month.. which had the wierdest CELL error.
Sorry for the rant... there's just sooo many variables, that in the end all you can do as a 'driver' is your due diligence of knowing your engine. (the average consumer does not). being a 2nd owner will make you the next owner the receiving end of a possible lemon... mine just happened to also be painted yellow
but i still drive it like i stole it.. after its warmed up 
.If the rx9 or whatever the 16x lands in looks like it butt ugly.. i might just trade in my 04 for an 09+
later!
03-13-2010, 10:13 PM
#268
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I replaced my fuel pump today.
She has 110,000 klms. on her, bought it with 48,000 klms on it.
I have pre-mixed with 4 oz. of a good 2-stroke oil (low ash for snowmobiles)
since I got it.
Maybe I should look at replacing the fuel filter as well just to be safe?
I have never had to replace a fuel pump on any of the cars I have owned.
All of the cars I have owned were used.
She has 110,000 klms. on her, bought it with 48,000 klms on it.
I have pre-mixed with 4 oz. of a good 2-stroke oil (low ash for snowmobiles)
since I got it.
Maybe I should look at replacing the fuel filter as well just to be safe?
I have never had to replace a fuel pump on any of the cars I have owned.
All of the cars I have owned were used.
03-14-2010, 04:56 PM
#269
8,681 posts and the majority of them dedicated to the proposition that you are smart and everyone else is not. Truely smart people don't have to put others down to make themselves "look good", which you seem driven to do. IF you could inform us how to set our board options to not show your posts at all, I, and I'm sure a large number of other people, would appreciate it.
03-14-2010, 05:19 PM
#270
8,681 posts and the majority of them dedicated to the proposition that you are smart and everyone else is not. Truely smart people don't have to put others down to make themselves "look good", which you seem driven to do. IF you could inform us how to set our board options to not show your posts at all, I, and I'm sure a large number of other people, would appreciate it.
02-23-2013, 06:23 PM
#271
As I said when I first joined this forum-- I did not think anything could make driving an RX-8 more fun, but this forum does.
I have been premixing since 1000 miles. I now have 38k miles. Passed compression test by mazda with flying colors.
New info. since I had guages installed.
In the summer with Houston temp. above 90 deg.
Water temp. at engine exit can get to 220-240 deg.
Oil temp can get to 240-260 deg.
My RX-8 still runs strong.
I have been premixing since 1000 miles. I now have 38k miles. Passed compression test by mazda with flying colors.
New info. since I had guages installed.
In the summer with Houston temp. above 90 deg.
Water temp. at engine exit can get to 220-240 deg.
Oil temp can get to 240-260 deg.
My RX-8 still runs strong.
In addition to the shortcomings of the oil injection, which is fairly well documented, it seems that the A/C is dumping so much heat directly into the path of the engine radiator that the fans can't keep up with the airflow needed to keep the temperature in the coolant from spiking. Last Summer, I performed some tests and found that I needed to be going at least 25mph to have enough air flow through the radiator to avoid this issue. When I first encountered the issue, I had switched to Evans waterless coolant a few months before, so while temperatures were elevated (245F according the ScanGauge II I was using at the time), there should not have been any runaway boiling and steam pockets in the coolant passages. I have seen enough reports of coolant seal failure around the exhaust ports to suggest that the inadequacy of the fans under the load of the air conditioning is also a failure mode.
Throwing out a long-shot question: does anyone make an upgraded MOP for the S1, either with improved flow or even the capability of feeding two more oil injectors (assuming the housings have the ports)? I am planning on swapping out the brittle plastic oil injector lines with braided steel lines as soon as budget and weather allow.
02-23-2013, 10:42 PM
#273
I don't have an oil temp gauge installed. Since the issue only comes up when the car is travelling very slowly or at a standstill, I am planning on installing at least one oil cooler fan as well as upgraded radiator fans in the Spring. I'll also be opening up the front fender well vents to give a better exhaust path.
I am presently comparing my fuel economy on my commuting to the amount of premix I use in an attempt to identify the most effective quantity. I had been using ½ ounce per gallon but stepped up to 1 ounce per gallon recently to see if additional benefit could be had, especially in light of the fact that I am unable to obtain pure gasoline in my area (all the gasoline in my area is adulterated with 10-15% ethanol).
Last edited by longpath; 02-23-2013 at 10:44 PM. Reason: forgot a parenthesis
02-24-2013, 06:34 PM
#274
Perfect Storm and DONT wake that child! I do understand.....
I got caught like that one time. I my ects didnt get that hot but it was headed that way. I had to pull off the traffic jammed freeway on a 105F day. I activated my water methanol injection system and that actually helped a little.
Glad you car is ok.
Let us know how it all turns out.
I got caught like that one time. I my ects didnt get that hot but it was headed that way. I had to pull off the traffic jammed freeway on a 105F day. I activated my water methanol injection system and that actually helped a little.
Glad you car is ok.
Let us know how it all turns out.
03-05-2013, 10:13 PM
#275
Good point Nemesis8, and one I have thought of.
Somehow I don't think the S1 MOP design has enough output (guts) for 2 more Nozzle/Drippers.
If it did I don't think Mazda would have returned to the drawing board to design their all electric set up used in S2's.
Remember though the S2 EMOP's consist of Two, one does the 4 Nozzles (S1) and the other device does the other 2 Nozzles.
Also the S2's 6 Nozzles themselves are different to the S1's.
I guess it won't be long before someone rebuilds with S2 Rotor Housings, I can't confirm if S1 nozzles will fit in S2 Rotor Housings??
Drilling out the 3rd Nozzle 'thread hole' would be very tricky on an assembled or fitted RENESIS.
Somehow I don't think the S1 MOP design has enough output (guts) for 2 more Nozzle/Drippers.
If it did I don't think Mazda would have returned to the drawing board to design their all electric set up used in S2's.
Remember though the S2 EMOP's consist of Two, one does the 4 Nozzles (S1) and the other device does the other 2 Nozzles.
Also the S2's 6 Nozzles themselves are different to the S1's.
I guess it won't be long before someone rebuilds with S2 Rotor Housings, I can't confirm if S1 nozzles will fit in S2 Rotor Housings??
Drilling out the 3rd Nozzle 'thread hole' would be very tricky on an assembled or fitted RENESIS.
Is there a practical way to run the S2 metering oil pump that feeds the two centre injectors so that it is slaved to the PCM inputs for the S1 OEM metering oil pump? I gather that the S2 pumps are not engine mounted, so mounting would seem to be more flexible.