Notices
Series I Tech Garage The place to discuss anything technical about the RX-8 that doesn't fit into any of the categories below.

Possible New Renesis Engine Failure Theory?

Thread Tools
 
Rate Thread
 
Old Sep 7, 2011 | 12:24 AM
  #576  
maskedferret's Avatar
Oooh, shiny!
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 908
Likes: 2
From: St. Louis, MO
I want to check simply if there exists an oil nozzle with a failed check valve. Looking at the hose diagram, one hose (from the accordion tube) goes to a hub that splits out to all of the injectors. Using this end of the hose (and if I am understanding the physics correctly), applying a vacuum of 9.65+ psi and watching for a drop of 0.39 or more over a minute would indicate a failure in at least one nozzle.

Is this lazy-man's test valid?
Reply
Old Sep 7, 2011 | 03:22 PM
  #577  
RotaryMachineRx's Avatar
SPOOLN8
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,300
Likes: 245
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
I have the same question.... if this test is valid one or more of my injectors are effed as I tried this a while back.
Reply
Old Sep 7, 2011 | 03:27 PM
  #578  
maskedferret's Avatar
Oooh, shiny!
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 908
Likes: 2
From: St. Louis, MO
I think a false positive is possible; i.e. an leak over the 1 minute 0.39 psi threshold could be distributed across the four nozzles. I may be over-thinking this ...
Reply
Old Sep 15, 2011 | 02:25 PM
  #579  
9krpmrx8's Avatar
Thread Starter
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 33,788
Likes: 462
From: San Antonio, Texas
Don't feel bad, I over think everything.
Reply
Old Sep 16, 2011 | 10:06 AM
  #580  
9krpmrx8's Avatar
Thread Starter
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 33,788
Likes: 462
From: San Antonio, Texas
Okay, guys. Rob at Pineapple finally had a chance to tear down my old Mazda Reman and the findings are troubling. I did not rebuild this motor, I had a perfectly running 2008 motor rebuilt instead. I am glad I did. I will post pics in a few minutes.

It looks like it was "rebuilt" with used rotor housings from the high amount
of wear to the chrome.

The motor looks like it was run hot. Although the water seals still look ok, the
inner water seal on the back side of the rear rtr. hsg. was flat. The combustion
gases were coloring the housings as they leaked past the seal. There are also signs
of leakage in other locations.

Both housings have large cracks at the lead plug holes. The unique carbon deposits
are classic of a housing with cracks at the plug holes. The size of the cracks also indicates
the housings were reused.

The side seal clearances were fair. Most were in the .006-.009" range.

The grooves had a fair amount of carbon build up.

I have not cleaned up the plates/housing to measure for warpage.

I would say you made the correct choice in not rebuilding this core over buying the
one you did.
Now keep in mind that this motor was premixed and ran the SOHN from almost day one and only had 30,000 miles on it. Also, it ran BHR coils and no cat from break in. So, did the failing injectors cause this even though I was premixing 1oz per gallon when i realized my SOHN reservoir was not emptying like usual?

Last edited by 9krpmrx8; Sep 16, 2011 at 10:10 AM.
Reply
Old Sep 16, 2011 | 01:43 PM
  #581  
9krpmrx8's Avatar
Thread Starter
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 33,788
Likes: 462
From: San Antonio, Texas
Copied from my build thread for those who don't visit that thread.

Okay guys, pics Still waiting on Rob to let me know how the bearings held up since I can't really tell from the pics.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9krpmrx8/6153673850/http://www.flickr.com/photos/9krpmrx8/6153673806/http://www.flickr.com/photos/9krpmrx8/6153126501/http://www.flickr.com/photos/9krpmrx8/6153673406/http://www.flickr.com/photos/9krpmrx8/6153673244/http://www.flickr.com/photos/9krpmrx8/6153125837/http://www.flickr.com/photos/9krpmrx8/6153125777/http://www.flickr.com/photos/9krpmrx8/6153125759/http://www.flickr.com/photos/9krpmrx8/6153672804/
Not the best resolution but i zoomed in and they appear to have held up pretty well right?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9krpmrx8/6153688222/
Reply
Old Sep 16, 2011 | 01:46 PM
  #582  
dannobre's Avatar
Modulated Moderator
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,720
Likes: 344
From: Smallville
Bearing looks OK...

That rotor housing looks like crap
Reply
Old Sep 16, 2011 | 01:49 PM
  #583  
9krpmrx8's Avatar
Thread Starter
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 33,788
Likes: 462
From: San Antonio, Texas
Yeah, I am glad I decided not to rebuild this one.
Reply
Old Sep 16, 2011 | 01:54 PM
  #584  
dannobre's Avatar
Modulated Moderator
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,720
Likes: 344
From: Smallville
As much as it hurts the pocket book...new housings are really a good idea for an engine you want to have less problems with
Reply
Old Sep 16, 2011 | 02:02 PM
  #585  
9krpmrx8's Avatar
Thread Starter
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 33,788
Likes: 462
From: San Antonio, Texas
TX

Originally Posted by dannobre
As much as it hurts the pocket book...new housings are really a good idea for an engine you want to have less problems with
I agree 100%. It is interesting how different builders have different opinions on that sort of thing and what should and should not be replaced. I am so glad I chose Pineapple, overall it was just an awesome experience. Hopefully the motor lives up to my expectations.
Reply
Old Sep 16, 2011 | 02:06 PM
  #586  
dannobre's Avatar
Modulated Moderator
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,720
Likes: 344
From: Smallville
Zoom Zoom....booom

It's all in the tune
Reply
Old Sep 16, 2011 | 02:38 PM
  #587  
ASH8's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,880
Likes: 340
From: Australia
Totally agree, New Housing are a must on higher mileage engines in ANY rotary rebuild...anything else and you're totally compromising your rebuild, you might as well use used Apex Seals.

Straight away you can see this owner (9K) looked after this engine/car.
Bearings look very very good and e-shaft.
Check out the Side Seal gap to Corner Seal!

How many miles again, on this one 9K?

Apart from that everything else look normal to excellent!..

Congratulations on your care..9K!
Reply
Old Sep 16, 2011 | 02:41 PM
  #588  
dynamho's Avatar
Registered
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,963
Likes: 7
From: Norwood, NJ
Thanks for sharing the tear down 9krpmrx8.
Reply
Old Sep 16, 2011 | 02:51 PM
  #589  
9krpmrx8's Avatar
Thread Starter
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 33,788
Likes: 462
From: San Antonio, Texas
TX

Originally Posted by ASH8
Totally agree, New Housing are a must on higher mileage engines in ANY rotary rebuild...anything else and you're totally compromising your rebuild, you might as well use used Apex Seals.

Straight away you can see this owner (9K) looked after this engine/car.
Bearings look very very good and e-shaft.
Check out the Side Seal gap to Corner Seal!

How many miles again, on this one 9K?

Apart from that everything else look normal to excellent!..

Congratulations on your care..9K!
Thanks This one had 30,000 miles on it. I plan on basically doing everything the same on the new motor but it should hold up much better.

Originally Posted by dynamho
Thanks for sharing the tear down 9krpmrx8.
Thanks, I am glad I was able to do this.
Reply
Old Sep 16, 2011 | 02:57 PM
  #590  
shadycrew31's Avatar
WENTGERMAN
iTrader: (6)
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 5,806
Likes: 31
From: Burbs,PA
I reused my housings, still running strong.

Before acetone



After acetone



Sure the same condition will pop back up, but It's been doing pretty well so far. It really came down to how much money I had at the time. if I get 30k out of this one I'll be happy
Reply
Old Sep 16, 2011 | 03:03 PM
  #591  
1.3_LittersOfFurry's Avatar
Flame On!
iTrader: (4)
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,897
Likes: 6
From: New Orleans, La
Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8



Out of curiosity, is this considered Light/Normal/or Heavy Carbon build up?

-Shawn
Reply
Old Sep 16, 2011 | 03:09 PM
  #592  
ASH8's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,880
Likes: 340
From: Australia
I call the carbon, light-normal...without seeing the other Rotor...normal.
Reply
Old Sep 17, 2011 | 03:38 AM
  #593  
Blacknightz's Avatar
Registered
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 918
Likes: 0
was that a normal or carbon 2mm apex seals?
Reply
Old Sep 17, 2011 | 05:25 PM
  #594  
9krpmrx8's Avatar
Thread Starter
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 33,788
Likes: 462
From: San Antonio, Texas
I should also note that I did do the Zoom Zoom cleaner a few months ago.
Reply
Old Sep 17, 2011 | 05:58 PM
  #595  
PhillipM's Avatar
Registered
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 863
Likes: 0
From: UK
Right, so after years of discussion we've narrowed the engine failures down to the few parts anywhere between the flywheel and the crank pulley....
Reply
Old Sep 17, 2011 | 07:27 PM
  #596  
nycgps's Avatar
Out of NYC
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 19,881
Likes: 36
From: Planet Earth
Originally Posted by Blacknightz
was that a normal or carbon 2mm apex seals?
what part of that seal looks like carbon seal to you ?

Originally Posted by PhillipM
Right, so after years of discussion we've narrowed the engine failures down to the few parts anywhere between the flywheel and the crank pulley....
you sure is not "something" between the front bumper to the rear bumper ?
Reply
Old Sep 17, 2011 | 08:22 PM
  #597  
PhillipM's Avatar
Registered
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 863
Likes: 0
From: UK
Pretty sure, I've narrowed that down by putting the engine in another car and still blowing a few up.
Reply
Old Sep 17, 2011 | 09:04 PM
  #598  
zoom44's Avatar
Administrator
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 21,958
Likes: 115
From: portland oregon
im going to go over to see rob some time this week and touch your motor, that way i can say i had a hand in the rebuild

of course if something breaks its not anything i touched
Reply
Old Sep 17, 2011 | 10:18 PM
  #599  
nycgps's Avatar
Out of NYC
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 19,881
Likes: 36
From: Planet Earth
Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8
I should also note that I did do the Zoom Zoom cleaner a few months ago.


My FC Engine pics, no zoom zoom cleaning (I can't do it, lol)

Unknown miles, why? cuz the last owner said the owner b4 him (last last owner?) had a rebuild engine about 30K miles ago.

but upon further inspection, I was like "no freaking way," cuz a lot of things were wrong with the engine, rubber plugs are MIA or never installed(melted?), still using older wire-type corner seal spring (seriously, this is a recent rebuild from 4+ yrs ago?) , wrong kind of Oil seal O-ring rubber (yeah, it was using the one Mazda said don't use it, and it's in pieces when I took it out, no wonder this engine was having massive oil leak/blown-by) , etc.

mind u all, those "black stuff" on the housing is NOT burn marks !!! it's actually silicone LOL ! I was like What the F ? It's every f-king where at places that you don't need it, but at places that NEEDS it, hmm, it's MIA. I was shock that this engine didn't leak from day one ...
Attached Thumbnails Possible New Renesis Engine Failure Theory?-204374_10150158637727570_688027569_6559402_3870011_o.jpg  

Last edited by nycgps; Sep 17, 2011 at 10:24 PM.
Reply
Old Sep 17, 2011 | 10:28 PM
  #600  
nycgps's Avatar
Out of NYC
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 19,881
Likes: 36
From: Planet Earth
Originally Posted by shadycrew31
I reused my housings, still running strong.

Sure the same condition will pop back up, but It's been doing pretty well so far. It really came down to how much money I had at the time. if I get 30k out of this one I'll be happy
well, if just an seal set and couple hours (oh fine, a day or 2) of time can get you another 30K miles hey, it's totally worth it.

You are lucky your engine was build properly, it was such a nightmare to clean my FC engine, I got cut like 50 times and I spent days just to try to scrap all those carbon and silicone off ...

I should just wipe (or soak) the housing with PB blaster and call it a day ...

Last edited by nycgps; Sep 17, 2011 at 10:31 PM.
Reply


You have already rated this thread Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 5.00 average.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:43 PM.