Lets look at expo1's over 100K renesis motor
05-21-2008, 01:24 PM
#402
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So, what do we do? If we want any chance of Mazda honoring their warranty, we have to use 5w20 and show proof of it. It's like they're asking us to ruin our engines. 
FWIW, if I just bought a brand new 8, I would take my chances with thicker oil. Probably wouldn't need the powertrain warranty.
My next engine, being in oklahoma... I think 10w30 and premix all year long.
Synthetic vs dino isn't even a debate compared to whether to go heavier than 5w20... it's the thin oil that is sending our engines to the graveyard, i.e. reman plant!
FWIW, if I just bought a brand new 8, I would take my chances with thicker oil. Probably wouldn't need the powertrain warranty.
My next engine, being in oklahoma... I think 10w30 and premix all year long.
Synthetic vs dino isn't even a debate compared to whether to go heavier than 5w20... it's the thin oil that is sending our engines to the graveyard, i.e. reman plant!
05-21-2008, 01:49 PM
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I once e-mailed Mazda about synthetic oil and heavier weights, and while they would basically not comment on synthetic except that they don't recommend it, they said that heavier weights could be used. The response is a few months old, but this is what I got..
I personally have been using 5w20 Royal Purple, might go to 5w30 for summer though.
Hello Jason,
Thank you for contacting Mazda.
In response to your question the 2004 RX-8 rotary engine is not designed to use any type of synthetic oil. The rotary Renesis engine is designed to burn oil. By using synthetic oil which does not burn as fast as conventional oil, potential engine problems could arise. For that reason Mazda does not recommend the use of synthetic oil in their rotary engines. However, the use of a higher viscosity rating for use in high temperature weather conditions is allowed. Just make sure that the oil you use meets both API and ILSAC standards.
Regards,
Steve P.
Specialist, Customer Assistance E-Business
Thank you for contacting Mazda.
In response to your question the 2004 RX-8 rotary engine is not designed to use any type of synthetic oil. The rotary Renesis engine is designed to burn oil. By using synthetic oil which does not burn as fast as conventional oil, potential engine problems could arise. For that reason Mazda does not recommend the use of synthetic oil in their rotary engines. However, the use of a higher viscosity rating for use in high temperature weather conditions is allowed. Just make sure that the oil you use meets both API and ILSAC standards.
Regards,
Steve P.
Specialist, Customer Assistance E-Business
Last edited by Jasonawojo; 05-21-2008 at 01:52 PM.
05-21-2008, 04:18 PM
#404
Don't be afraid of the 40 weight! I think secretly, Mazda is happy that I'm preaching this message. As I said previously: The manufacturer has to do what the manufacturer has to do and we, the enlightened, need to do what we need to do.
Unfortunately, in this very political age, there are many other concerns beyond overall engine life. The balancing act for a manufacturer is a tricky one.
Paul.
Unfortunately, in this very political age, there are many other concerns beyond overall engine life. The balancing act for a manufacturer is a tricky one.
Paul.
05-21-2008, 07:22 PM
#405
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So, what do we do? If we want any chance of Mazda honoring their warranty, we have to use 5w20 and show proof of it. It's like they're asking us to ruin our engines.
FWIW, if I just bought a brand new 8, I would take my chances with thicker oil. Probably wouldn't need the powertrain warranty.
My next engine, being in oklahoma... I think 10w30 and premix all year long.
Synthetic vs dino isn't even a debate compared to whether to go heavier than 5w20... it's the thin oil that is sending our engines to the graveyard, i.e. reman plant!
FWIW, if I just bought a brand new 8, I would take my chances with thicker oil. Probably wouldn't need the powertrain warranty.
My next engine, being in oklahoma... I think 10w30 and premix all year long.
Synthetic vs dino isn't even a debate compared to whether to go heavier than 5w20... it's the thin oil that is sending our engines to the graveyard, i.e. reman plant!
05-21-2008, 11:03 PM
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Would it matter at this point having 33k miles on it?
Here is what Im worried about.
Look at the viscosity at 40C here. There is a pretty big difference between 10w30 and 10w40.
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp...sd_gtx_usa.pdf
This leads me to another question. I am about to do my oil this week, I had 5w30 in before hand. I bought my car used, so I dont know what the hell was put in there for the first 20k miles, but the dealer I got it from only serviced with 10w30. Anyways, I usually let my car idle for 30 seconds then drive away being very gentle on the car. What would you guys say is a proper amount of time to let the car idle before driving?
Here is what Im worried about.
Look at the viscosity at 40C here. There is a pretty big difference between 10w30 and 10w40.
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp...sd_gtx_usa.pdf
This leads me to another question. I am about to do my oil this week, I had 5w30 in before hand. I bought my car used, so I dont know what the hell was put in there for the first 20k miles, but the dealer I got it from only serviced with 10w30. Anyways, I usually let my car idle for 30 seconds then drive away being very gentle on the car. What would you guys say is a proper amount of time to let the car idle before driving?
05-22-2008, 02:16 PM
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Jasonawojo's letter is interesting, but didn't I read somewhere that Mazda tested their engines with synthetic before shipping them out?
Maybe the best bet for someone under warranty who wants better protection for the engine and not get denied warranty repairs is to go with a heavier oil, but stick to conventional. That way you could cover your butt from both sides.
While I'm a fan of synthetics, if you change your oil every 3k miles, most of the added benefit of synthetic is negated, in my opinion... ESPECIALLY if there's a chance it will void warranty.
05-22-2008, 03:07 PM
#408
I'm sure you're right, but I never said anything about 5w30.
Jasonawojo's letter is interesting, but didn't I read somewhere that Mazda tested their engines with synthetic before shipping them out?
Maybe the best bet for someone under warranty who wants better protection for the engine and not get denied warranty repairs is to go with a heavier oil, but stick to conventional. That way you could cover your butt from both sides.
While I'm a fan of synthetics, if you change your oil every 3k miles, most of the added benefit of synthetic is negated, in my opinion... ESPECIALLY if there's a chance it will void warranty.
Jasonawojo's letter is interesting, but didn't I read somewhere that Mazda tested their engines with synthetic before shipping them out?
Maybe the best bet for someone under warranty who wants better protection for the engine and not get denied warranty repairs is to go with a heavier oil, but stick to conventional. That way you could cover your butt from both sides.
While I'm a fan of synthetics, if you change your oil every 3k miles, most of the added benefit of synthetic is negated, in my opinion... ESPECIALLY if there's a chance it will void warranty.
Synthetic, even at the same weight, can offer better film strength/protection than their Dino cousin. that is a known fact. meh. what do I know.
05-22-2008, 03:29 PM
#413
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They cant void your warranty for the oil you use, unless they can prove that is the cause of failure. Damn, how many times I gotta repeat this ?
Synthetic, even at the same weight, can offer better film strength/protection than their Dino cousin. that is a known fact. meh. what do I know.
Synthetic, even at the same weight, can offer better film strength/protection than their Dino cousin. that is a known fact. meh. what do I know.
FWIW, I don't know what you know but it seems like a lot. I think you missed my point, is all.
05-22-2008, 03:32 PM
#414
I just notice something in Castrol GTX's Product Data sheet
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp...sd_gtx_usa.pdf
Hmm, I wonder why they didnt say anything about 5w20's protection/extend engine life. but anything *above* w20 grade, for some reason, has mention *extended engine life* in them. and 20w50 is providing superior oil film strength(ALL engine needs this) and extreme High temp. strength(ALL engine needs this)
I wonder why ... hmm I wonder why when auto manufacture started to recommend 5w20 as factory fill & recommend it since hmm .. 2001 I think ? Or 2002 I dont remember. Engine dies faster than ever. happening every year. Most of them can *get pass* the warranty period. after that hmm, hard to say.
(Castrol is waitng for your counter-attack)
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp...sd_gtx_usa.pdf
Industry Specifications and OEM Approvals by Grade
SAE 5W-20: is a premium, multi-grade oil,providing cold start protection with Exceptional Fuel Economy. SAE 5W-20 exceeds API service SM, SL, SJ and SH, as well as exceeding ILSAC GF-4/GF-3/GF-2 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils. Exceeds Ford specifications WSS M2C153-H and WSS M2C930-A. Exceeds the service fill requirements of Ford, Honda and Chrysler where an SAE 5W-20 motor oil is specified. SAE 5W-20 should only be used in vehicles where SAE 5W-
20 is recommended by manufacturer.
SAE 5W-30: is a premium, super multi-grade that provides maximum cold weather engine protection and can help extend engine life. SAE 5W-30 exceeds API Service SM, SL, SJ and SH, as well as exceeding all the requirements of ILSAC GF-4/GF-3/GF-2 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils and meets Energy Conserving Standards. Exceeds GM6094M and Ford WSS M2C929-A.
SAE 10W-30: is a premium, super multi-grade that provides fuel economy and can help extend engine life. SAE 10W-30 exceeds API Service SM, SL, SJ and SH as well as exceeding all the requirements of ILSAC GF-4/GF-3/GF-2 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils and meets Energy Conserving Standards. Exceeds GM6094M
SAE 10W-40: is a premium, super multigrade that provides maximum protection in all seasons and can help extend engine life. SAE 10W-40 exceeds API service SM, SL, SJ and SH as well as exceeding the engine protection requirements for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils.
SAE 20W-50: is a premium, super multigrade that guards against wear by providing a superior oil film strength and extreme high temperature strength. 20W-50 exceeds API service SM, SL, SJ and SH. Use SAE 20W-50 when ambient temperature is above 20 F.
SAE 5W-20: is a premium, multi-grade oil,providing cold start protection with Exceptional Fuel Economy. SAE 5W-20 exceeds API service SM, SL, SJ and SH, as well as exceeding ILSAC GF-4/GF-3/GF-2 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils. Exceeds Ford specifications WSS M2C153-H and WSS M2C930-A. Exceeds the service fill requirements of Ford, Honda and Chrysler where an SAE 5W-20 motor oil is specified. SAE 5W-20 should only be used in vehicles where SAE 5W-
20 is recommended by manufacturer.
SAE 5W-30: is a premium, super multi-grade that provides maximum cold weather engine protection and can help extend engine life. SAE 5W-30 exceeds API Service SM, SL, SJ and SH, as well as exceeding all the requirements of ILSAC GF-4/GF-3/GF-2 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils and meets Energy Conserving Standards. Exceeds GM6094M and Ford WSS M2C929-A.
SAE 10W-30: is a premium, super multi-grade that provides fuel economy and can help extend engine life. SAE 10W-30 exceeds API Service SM, SL, SJ and SH as well as exceeding all the requirements of ILSAC GF-4/GF-3/GF-2 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils and meets Energy Conserving Standards. Exceeds GM6094M
SAE 10W-40: is a premium, super multigrade that provides maximum protection in all seasons and can help extend engine life. SAE 10W-40 exceeds API service SM, SL, SJ and SH as well as exceeding the engine protection requirements for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils.
SAE 20W-50: is a premium, super multigrade that guards against wear by providing a superior oil film strength and extreme high temperature strength. 20W-50 exceeds API service SM, SL, SJ and SH. Use SAE 20W-50 when ambient temperature is above 20 F.
I wonder why ... hmm I wonder why when auto manufacture started to recommend 5w20 as factory fill & recommend it since hmm .. 2001 I think ? Or 2002 I dont remember. Engine dies faster than ever. happening every year. Most of them can *get pass* the warranty period. after that hmm, hard to say.
(Castrol is waitng for your counter-attack)
Last edited by nycgps; 05-22-2008 at 03:38 PM.
05-22-2008, 03:34 PM
#415
I think they would easily void the warranty on an engine replacement if you used synthetic. And since you asked... maybe you could try repeating it as many times as Mazda throws a fit over it? Although that wouldn't leave much time for hobbies.
FWIW, I don't know what you know but it seems like a lot. I think you missed my point, is all.
FWIW, I don't know what you know but it seems like a lot. I think you missed my point, is all.
NOT TO MENTION, in the states, they CANNOT void your warranty for using Full Synthetic oil. Im using oil that meet actually farrrrr exceed their specification. If they void me base on Synthetic, Im sure I can sue them and I will win.
05-22-2008, 03:35 PM
#416
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I just posted that letter to show that Mazda claimed to not be against using a heavier weight in hot weather.
The deal with the synthetic is, Mazda would need to prove that the use of synthetic oil caused the engine to fail in order to void the engine warranty. If they found out, they might try to void it without investigating as they attempt to do in many situations, but if you pushed hard enough they would have to prove it or give up, technically.
The deal with the synthetic is, Mazda would need to prove that the use of synthetic oil caused the engine to fail in order to void the engine warranty. If they found out, they might try to void it without investigating as they attempt to do in many situations, but if you pushed hard enough they would have to prove it or give up, technically.
05-22-2008, 04:30 PM
#417
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Haha ! I did tell my dealership that I use nothing but Synthetic oil only. There are times that they tried to void my warranty, but it was due to intake kind of BS. nothing oil related.
NOT TO MENTION, in the states, they CANNOT void your warranty for using Full Synthetic oil. Im using oil that meet actually farrrrr exceed their specification. If they void me base on Synthetic, Im sure I can sue them and I will win.
NOT TO MENTION, in the states, they CANNOT void your warranty for using Full Synthetic oil. Im using oil that meet actually farrrrr exceed their specification. If they void me base on Synthetic, Im sure I can sue them and I will win.
We know that synthetic oil isn't killing our engine, conventional isn't either... thin weight likely is.
But coming from someone who has had their engine replaced, and from reading about others on this board, I see no reason to believe they wouldn't try to decline an engine replacement based on the manufacturer's belief that synthetic is a wankel killer.
It sucks to have to go through an engine replacement, and to give them one more reason to make you pay for it unless you sue them is not worth it when there are plenty of conventional oils that are fine with proper maintenance.
That's all I was trying to say.
05-22-2008, 05:25 PM
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I just notice something in Castrol GTX's Product Data sheet
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp...sd_gtx_usa.pdf
Hmm, I wonder why they didnt say anything about 5w20's protection/extend engine life. but anything *above* w20 grade, for some reason, has mention *extended engine life* in them. and 20w50 is providing superior oil film strength(ALL engine needs this) and extreme High temp. strength(ALL engine needs this)
I wonder why ... hmm I wonder why when auto manufacture started to recommend 5w20 as factory fill & recommend it since hmm .. 2001 I think ? Or 2002 I dont remember. Engine dies faster than ever. happening every year. Most of them can *get pass* the warranty period. after that hmm, hard to say.
(Castrol is waitng for your counter-attack)
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp...sd_gtx_usa.pdf
Hmm, I wonder why they didnt say anything about 5w20's protection/extend engine life. but anything *above* w20 grade, for some reason, has mention *extended engine life* in them. and 20w50 is providing superior oil film strength(ALL engine needs this) and extreme High temp. strength(ALL engine needs this)
I wonder why ... hmm I wonder why when auto manufacture started to recommend 5w20 as factory fill & recommend it since hmm .. 2001 I think ? Or 2002 I dont remember. Engine dies faster than ever. happening every year. Most of them can *get pass* the warranty period. after that hmm, hard to say.
(Castrol is waitng for your counter-attack)
05-22-2008, 05:33 PM
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I just notice something in Castrol GTX's Product Data sheet
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp...sd_gtx_usa.pdf
Hmm, I wonder why they didnt say anything about 5w20's protection/extend engine life. but anything *above* w20 grade, for some reason, has mention *extended engine life* in them. and 20w50 is providing superior oil film strength(ALL engine needs this) and extreme High temp. strength(ALL engine needs this)
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp...sd_gtx_usa.pdf
Hmm, I wonder why they didnt say anything about 5w20's protection/extend engine life. but anything *above* w20 grade, for some reason, has mention *extended engine life* in them. and 20w50 is providing superior oil film strength(ALL engine needs this) and extreme High temp. strength(ALL engine needs this)
05-22-2008, 05:37 PM
#420
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05-22-2008, 05:59 PM
#421
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Which is why I'm going to 5W40; to try to get the best of both worlds. Unfortunately, this oil is a SM oil and Mazmart says they might be seeing an issue with SM oils not being as good for engine life; though they haven't stated where and why yet. C'mon Paul, spill the beans!
05-22-2008, 07:22 PM
#422
Which is why I'm going to 5W40; to try to get the best of both worlds. Unfortunately, this oil is a SM oil and Mazmart says they might be seeing an issue with SM oils not being as good for engine life; though they haven't stated where and why yet. C'mon Paul, spill the beans!
SM is cool if you've done all your homework. Some great oils have added Moly to compensate. I just want more than most in the area of protection.
The saga continues.
Paul.
05-22-2008, 07:35 PM
#423
nyc, I'm not trying to get into a pissing match with you, nor am I arguing the fact that synthetic is the ultimate protection, and maybe I'm just in a pissy mood b/c my car is broken and I have yet to hear from the dealer after 3 1/2 days (<--most likely.)
We know that synthetic oil isn't killing our engine, conventional isn't either... thin weight likely is.
But coming from someone who has had their engine replaced, and from reading about others on this board, I see no reason to believe they wouldn't try to decline an engine replacement based on the manufacturer's belief that synthetic is a wankel killer.
It sucks to have to go through an engine replacement, and to give them one more reason to make you pay for it unless you sue them is not worth it when there are plenty of conventional oils that are fine with proper maintenance.
That's all I was trying to say.
We know that synthetic oil isn't killing our engine, conventional isn't either... thin weight likely is.
But coming from someone who has had their engine replaced, and from reading about others on this board, I see no reason to believe they wouldn't try to decline an engine replacement based on the manufacturer's belief that synthetic is a wankel killer.
It sucks to have to go through an engine replacement, and to give them one more reason to make you pay for it unless you sue them is not worth it when there are plenty of conventional oils that are fine with proper maintenance.
That's all I was trying to say.
The thing is that, Mazda cant deny warranty claims based on Synthetic alone, they HAVE to prove that the issue is caused by *name item here*.
Synthetic has stronger film strength, can withstand higher heat, etc. Its simply a *Better* product since day 1. The problem is just that, to some people, the Extra characteristic does not worth the extra cost to them(cost 3x or more)
If 10wWhatever can make them put the *Extend engine life* line in their data sheet, I dont see the reason for 5 or 0w, unless the user lives at some really cold places.
Last edited by nycgps; 05-22-2008 at 07:39 PM.
05-22-2008, 07:49 PM
#424
According to engine oil manufacturers, it is proper to use a 20W50 in ambient temps as low as 20deg F for cold start up but they caution: Use what your vehicle manufacturer recommends. The purpose of that latter statement is legality. If I had to rush into traffic from dead cold conditions, I'd want the very low winter rating;especially in the winter, but I'm not going to give up film strength and viscosity.
Read my lips people: 5W20 is intended for REDUCED AVERAGE CORPORATE FUEL CONSUMPTION and not much else
.
Paul.
Read my lips people: 5W20 is intended for REDUCED AVERAGE CORPORATE FUEL CONSUMPTION and not much else
.Paul.