Lets look at expo1's over 100K renesis motor
04-03-2008, 08:25 AM
#301
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just go with the castrol it will be fine---fi guys should be running 20w 50. most bearing wear is being caused by the dry start up anyway. usually on the front eccentric bearing. At 50K mine was to the and into the copper in the usual spot. I was using 10w 30 and 10w 40 the entire time. I had more carbon than i have ever seen.
olddragger
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04-03-2008, 10:27 AM
#302
White is purdy...
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And the new pcm flash would significantly prevent wear, as it says they increased the amount of oil injected at start up...
04-03-2008, 11:57 AM
#304
There are other considerations in play here. The wider the range, the quicker the additives in the oil can break down.
04-03-2008, 02:21 PM
#305
Lubricious
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In order to achieve a multi-grade, viscocity modifiers are added to the base oil that increase the viscocity at higher temps beyond what it would otherwise be. The larger the spread, the more of these modifiers that must be used. There are 2 drawbacks. First, the modifiers are replacing oil that would otherwise be used for lubrication. Second, the modifiers tend to "shear", that is their molecules break down under forces encountered during operation. So what starts as 5w40 will eventually become a 5w30, then 5w20 or even lighter as time goes by. The less modifier used, the less pronounced is this effect.
So, a 10w40 with a spread of 30, would have some advantages over an oil made from the same base, that was engineered to 5w40, with a spread of 35, by simply adding more modifiers.
In general, you're better off with the lowest spread that will cover the temperatures you expect to encounter. I.e., try to stay away from something crazy like 0w50, unless you're planning regular trips between Death Valley and the snowcapped Rockies.
04-03-2008, 07:37 PM
#306
A lot of great info folks.
A few things we should keep in mind with oil ratings: Although you do want to avoid excessive VI improvers, remember that a Winter rating is not a viscosity rating.
I wouldn't oppose a 0W50 FULL SYNTHETIC (For my purposes) .
Paul.
A few things we should keep in mind with oil ratings: Although you do want to avoid excessive VI improvers, remember that a Winter rating is not a viscosity rating.
I wouldn't oppose a 0W50 FULL SYNTHETIC (For my purposes)
.Paul.
04-03-2008, 08:05 PM
#307
road warrior
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All else being equal, a lower spread between the weights in a multigrade, will be a better oil.
In order to achieve a multi-grade, viscocity modifiers are added to the base oil that increase the viscocity at higher temps beyond what it would otherwise be. The larger the spread, the more of these modifiers that must be used. There are 2 drawbacks. First, the modifiers are replacing oil that would otherwise be used for lubrication. Second, the modifiers tend to "shear", that is their molecules break down under forces encountered during operation. So what starts as 5w40 will eventually become a 5w30, then 5w20 or even lighter as time goes by. The less modifier used, the less pronounced is this effect.
So, a 10w40 with a spread of 30, would have some advantages over an oil made from the same base, that was engineered to 5w40, with a spread of 35, by simply adding more modifiers.
In general, you're better off with the lowest spread that will cover the temperatures you expect to encounter. I.e., try to stay away from something crazy like 0w50, unless you're planning regular trips between Death Valley and the snowcapped Rockies.
In order to achieve a multi-grade, viscocity modifiers are added to the base oil that increase the viscocity at higher temps beyond what it would otherwise be. The larger the spread, the more of these modifiers that must be used. There are 2 drawbacks. First, the modifiers are replacing oil that would otherwise be used for lubrication. Second, the modifiers tend to "shear", that is their molecules break down under forces encountered during operation. So what starts as 5w40 will eventually become a 5w30, then 5w20 or even lighter as time goes by. The less modifier used, the less pronounced is this effect.
So, a 10w40 with a spread of 30, would have some advantages over an oil made from the same base, that was engineered to 5w40, with a spread of 35, by simply adding more modifiers.
In general, you're better off with the lowest spread that will cover the temperatures you expect to encounter. I.e., try to stay away from something crazy like 0w50, unless you're planning regular trips between Death Valley and the snowcapped Rockies.
04-04-2008, 02:29 AM
#308
always filling [the c]up
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so is there a particular premix anyone should keep in mind?
i had given the um..protek-r a shot a couple months back. used a little more during a pca event. but i stopped buying it in december. my motor has only seen about.....60oz's?
anyways. in addition to my learning a few more things about the renny, i'd like to be sure on which premix is *best*.
and to think, i USED to run 10w40 just because i wanted to. now to switch back from the 5w30 i'm on now before another event.
i had given the um..protek-r a shot a couple months back. used a little more during a pca event. but i stopped buying it in december. my motor has only seen about.....60oz's?
anyways. in addition to my learning a few more things about the renny, i'd like to be sure on which premix is *best*.
and to think, i USED to run 10w40 just because i wanted to. now to switch back from the 5w30 i'm on now before another event.
04-04-2008, 02:35 AM
#309
so is there a particular premix anyone should keep in mind?
i had given the um..protek-r a shot a couple months back. used a little more during a pca event. but i stopped buying it in december. my motor has only seen about.....60oz's?
anyways. in addition to my learning a few more things about the renny, i'd like to be sure on which premix is *best*.
and to think, i USED to run 10w40 just because i wanted to. now to switch back from the 5w30 i'm on now before another event.
i had given the um..protek-r a shot a couple months back. used a little more during a pca event. but i stopped buying it in december. my motor has only seen about.....60oz's?
anyways. in addition to my learning a few more things about the renny, i'd like to be sure on which premix is *best*.
and to think, i USED to run 10w40 just because i wanted to. now to switch back from the 5w30 i'm on now before another event.
send me an email.. swoo gmail. com
beers
04-04-2008, 07:08 AM
#310
Got Another Rotary
Depending on what you are trying to accomplish with your premix - additional lubrication and cleaning - and in what proportion - will determine your preferred product(s)
Here is a post that lists some to consider, with some basic details
https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=968
04-04-2008, 10:38 AM
#311
always filling [the c]up
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alrighty.
i guess i should have provided for lubrication and cleansing.
thanks for providing the link!
There is no one "best" premix just like there is not one best oil.
Depending on what you are trying to accomplish with your premix - additional lubrication and cleaning - and in what proportion - will determine your preferred product(s)
Here is a post that lists some to consider, with some basic details
https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=968
Depending on what you are trying to accomplish with your premix - additional lubrication and cleaning - and in what proportion - will determine your preferred product(s)
Here is a post that lists some to consider, with some basic details
https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=968
thanks for providing the link!
04-21-2008, 08:21 AM
#313
Ayrton Senna Forever
I dont think that a xx-40 oil is the best choice for the Renesis. Lubrication is not just depend on, how thick is the oil.
With a xx-30 oil you will get more oil flow, at high rpm. More flow means better lubrication and better COOLING! Think about the oil spray inside the rotors.
With an xx-40 oil you reach the max flow rate about 7000rpm if the oil hot, because the oil by-pass valve will already open there (partly), because of the thicker oil's higher pressure. If the oil cooler than the by-pass open much earlier.
With a xx-30 oil you will get better flow above 7000 rpm, just there where that is the most important! More oil will spray on your rotors inside wall, and the engine's internal parts will get better cooling, and more oil will flow across the oil coolers in the same time vs. the thicker xx-40. So everything will be cooler. Maybe it's an important part when we are seeking the longer life's secret (engine).
I prefer 0w-30. 0w is the closest to perfect thickness at cold starting, but even 0w is too thick at cold starting!
With a xx-30 oil you will get more oil flow, at high rpm. More flow means better lubrication and better COOLING! Think about the oil spray inside the rotors.
With an xx-40 oil you reach the max flow rate about 7000rpm if the oil hot, because the oil by-pass valve will already open there (partly), because of the thicker oil's higher pressure. If the oil cooler than the by-pass open much earlier.
With a xx-30 oil you will get better flow above 7000 rpm, just there where that is the most important! More oil will spray on your rotors inside wall, and the engine's internal parts will get better cooling, and more oil will flow across the oil coolers in the same time vs. the thicker xx-40. So everything will be cooler. Maybe it's an important part when we are seeking the longer life's secret (engine).
I prefer 0w-30. 0w is the closest to perfect thickness at cold starting, but even 0w is too thick at cold starting!
Last edited by ayrton012; 04-21-2008 at 09:04 AM.
04-21-2008, 10:02 AM
#315
Of course our rotary engine experience and dealings with oils used in high rpm endurance applications is so limited 
.
There's nothing clearance-wise or material-wise about the renesis that would prevent someone from using a 20W50, I wouldn't personally run that in a cold climate. All the the research we've done and seen indicates that the thinner oils are used for improved gas mileage and tiny hp increase. Having seen more than 1000 street and racing rotaries apart and conducted tests with various oils I'd rather go a little toward the higher end of the viscosity scale than the other way.
Paul.
.There's nothing clearance-wise or material-wise about the renesis that would prevent someone from using a 20W50, I wouldn't personally run that in a cold climate. All the the research we've done and seen indicates that the thinner oils are used for improved gas mileage and tiny hp increase. Having seen more than 1000 street and racing rotaries apart and conducted tests with various oils I'd rather go a little toward the higher end of the viscosity scale than the other way.
Paul.
04-21-2008, 10:10 AM
#317
He's as bad as Can
Paul, just wanted to say I have 7,000 miles on your engine and all is well. It's using RP 5W-30 now. I however will not be racking up the miles on this one like my last motor. I picked up a 2000 Saturn SL beater just for commuting. Gets DBL the MPG and just driving it to work 3x a week will cut 12,000 miles a year off my 8.
04-21-2008, 10:43 AM
#318
Of course our rotary engine experience and dealings with oils used in high rpm endurance applications is so limited .
There's nothing clearance-wise or material-wise about the renesis that would prevent someone from using a 20W50, I wouldn't personally run that in a cold climate. All the the research we've done and seen indicates that the thinner oils are used for improved gas mileage and tiny hp increase. Having seen more than 1000 street and racing rotaries apart and conducted tests with various oils I'd rather go a little toward the higher end of the viscosity scale than the other way.
Paul.
.There's nothing clearance-wise or material-wise about the renesis that would prevent someone from using a 20W50, I wouldn't personally run that in a cold climate. All the the research we've done and seen indicates that the thinner oils are used for improved gas mileage and tiny hp increase. Having seen more than 1000 street and racing rotaries apart and conducted tests with various oils I'd rather go a little toward the higher end of the viscosity scale than the other way.
Paul.
Paul, just wanted to say I have 7,000 miles on your engine and all is well. It's using RP 5W-30 now. I however will not be racking up the miles on this one like my last motor. I picked up a 2000 Saturn SL beater just for commuting. Gets DBL the MPG and just driving it to work 3x a week will cut 12,000 miles a year off my 8.
j/k :P
Hell Im getting a Yaris for DD ... Many ask *WTF A YARIS?*
Well, not like I cant take the gas price(3.83 Premium, but I use Medium for now which cost about 3.71 last night, it works so why not ?) I just want to keep my warranty a bit longer. My warranty should go out at June 2009, but I have 40K miles on the motor already, if I keep driving it Im gonna lose a whole yr of bumper to bumper warranty
it sounds stupid but, Hey I tried the Yaris its actually NOT as bad as I thought it was ! (5 sp manual of course )
Last edited by nycgps; 04-21-2008 at 10:46 AM.
04-21-2008, 11:43 AM
#319
He's as bad as Can
I got over that when my last tank on the Saturn avg. 38 MPG. It will add about 4 more years to my 8, I also will not have to wash it as much. I am still going to put about 15,000 miles a year on the 8, I was doing 25,000 a year. With what gas is going for is just crazy to use the 8 to drive in parkway traffic 80 miles a day.
04-21-2008, 07:45 PM
#320
I got over that when my last tank on the Saturn avg. 38 MPG. It will add about 4 more years to my 8, I also will not have to wash it as much. I am still going to put about 15,000 miles a year on the 8, I was doing 25,000 a year. With what gas is going for is just crazy to use the 8 to drive in parkway traffic 80 miles a day.
If bush is outa the office we might be able to ZooM ZooM more
...
04-21-2008, 08:25 PM
#322
All else being equal, a lower spread between the weights in a multigrade, will be a better oil.
In order to achieve a multi-grade, viscocity modifiers are added to the base oil that increase the viscocity at higher temps beyond what it would otherwise be. The larger the spread, the more of these modifiers that must be used. There are 2 drawbacks. First, the modifiers are replacing oil that would otherwise be used for lubrication. Second, the modifiers tend to "shear", that is their molecules break down under forces encountered during operation. So what starts as 5w40 will eventually become a 5w30, then 5w20 or even lighter as time goes by. The less modifier used, the less pronounced is this effect.
So, a 10w40 with a spread of 30, would have some advantages over an oil made from the same base, that was engineered to 5w40, with a spread of 35, by simply adding more modifiers.
In general, you're better off with the lowest spread that will cover the temperatures you expect to encounter. I.e., try to stay away from something crazy like 0w50, unless you're planning regular trips between Death Valley and the snowcapped Rockies.
In order to achieve a multi-grade, viscocity modifiers are added to the base oil that increase the viscocity at higher temps beyond what it would otherwise be. The larger the spread, the more of these modifiers that must be used. There are 2 drawbacks. First, the modifiers are replacing oil that would otherwise be used for lubrication. Second, the modifiers tend to "shear", that is their molecules break down under forces encountered during operation. So what starts as 5w40 will eventually become a 5w30, then 5w20 or even lighter as time goes by. The less modifier used, the less pronounced is this effect.
So, a 10w40 with a spread of 30, would have some advantages over an oil made from the same base, that was engineered to 5w40, with a spread of 35, by simply adding more modifiers.
In general, you're better off with the lowest spread that will cover the temperatures you expect to encounter. I.e., try to stay away from something crazy like 0w50, unless you're planning regular trips between Death Valley and the snowcapped Rockies.
This is why I went 0W30 synthetic and not 0w40 OR 10w40. For example, Motul or Redline ester based oils start out like a 0W20, so few modifiers are needed to make it 0W30. Unlike 0W40, 5W40, or others. Note- Ester based oils also perform better at startup.
For 0W40 to get to W40 they add in more modifiers. In many situations and scenarios, 0W30 is actually the better oil than 0W40. Motul had this situation with their own 0W30 versus their 0W40.
0W30 is also the better oil during startup than 10W40. Also a synthetic 0W30 will compare very well against any dino 10W40. It will also compare well against synthetic 10W40 too. It would come down more to which particular traits you wanted in the oil.
A good 0W30 synthetic should hold up very well between oil changes, resist wear, for cooling, and still do well with MPG.
To be on the safe side even more, I add Lucas UCL and cleaner (you have to address the carbon build up issue too), by itself, as my pre-mix. I'm looking to try Lube Control FP Plus, again by itself and NOT with any 2 cycle oil, but the Lucas UCL is easy for me to get and is working well.
Note- Keep in mind if you are all out racing your car and in warm weather, than you are looking at a different scenario. You would look at 5W40, 10W40, or 20w50 to provide max protection in extreme and sustained stress on your engine. However, for 20W50, I wonder about the cooling effect (or lack of) of the oil. But for daily driving, my opinion, is go with a 0W30 synthetic as startup will be a wear maker, MPG is a concern, short trips become issues, and you are stressing the engine at the high end for shorter periods of time.
just go with the castrol it will be fine---fi guys should be running 20w 50. most bearing wear is being caused by the dry start up anyway. usually on the front eccentric bearing. At 50K mine was to the and into the copper in the usual spot. I was using 10w 30 and 10w 40 the entire time. I had more carbon than i have ever seen.
olddragger
olddragger
Last edited by sosonic; 04-21-2008 at 08:58 PM.
04-22-2008, 07:03 AM
#323
Carbonormous
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Wrong! The 0 (zero) is the part that needed the additives. The first number is the W. 0W-40 not 0-W40.
04-22-2008, 07:06 AM
#324
Carbonormous
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Yes, because I'm sure next Jan when he leaves the oval office Osama, the Iranians, and all of the terrorist factions will just stop their atrocities that they've been performing for 30 years regardless of which party has run the White House.
04-22-2008, 07:16 AM
#325
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when we bail out of Iraq and either Iran or AQ take it over, i'll be laughing my *** of when oil hits $300 a barrel... then i'll be crying and have to bike 15 miles to work -sigh-
I always noticed how much worse my car sounds in the winter on a cold start running 5W20 vs summer 5W20... 0W30 might be a nice option actually
I always noticed how much worse my car sounds in the winter on a cold start running 5W20 vs summer 5W20... 0W30 might be a nice option actually