Good technical discussion about Engine Oils
08-03-2009, 11:18 AM
#327
If it was done over 25 yrs ago I would say it is no longer valid given improvements in oil formulations, not to mention synthetic oil, and improvements in the hardness and wear ability of metal surfaces; bearing, coating, and such.
How about something done at least this century old guy
or I won't budge my 'urban legend' claim!
How about something done at least this century old guy
or I won't budge my 'urban legend' claim!Besides, how has the concept of "friction" changed since the Dawn of Man? It hasn't and the friction between bearings and journals is the same as it is when you are dry-humping your girlfriend.
I have actually found myself disappointed to discover that the biggest changes made in most industries isn't nearly as substantive as it is process-oriented.
BTW, you have already contradicted yourself, Young Man, so I guess age isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Last edited by Charles R. Hill; 08-03-2009 at 11:22 AM.
08-03-2009, 11:20 AM
#328
Apparently, you are not even aware of which "approach" it is I mentioned as it has nothing to do with color.
08-03-2009, 11:31 AM
#329
Momentum Keeps Me Going
Ok Charles, here where I'm coming from. My 1974 RX-2 blew two engines, perhaps from oil, perhaps from seals, more likely coolant gaskets... or perhaps it's because the rotary is simply destined to meltdown on a regular basis after not so many miles, simply because it has to.
If some newfangled light-weight oil or other had so much to do with failure in the rotary, how come my fancy new RX-8 RENESIS still blew it engine a few 1000 miles ago after (just like 35yrs ago) after about 30K miles? Mazda ability to avoid catastrophic failure modes with the rotary hasn't gotten so much better as far as I can see, and they didn't have any these lightweight or synthetic oils then.
Fortunately Mazda DID have the same generous warranty
so life went on and I was sufficiently imprinted to swallow Mazda story hook, line, and sinker... for some crazy reason 
If some newfangled light-weight oil or other had so much to do with failure in the rotary, how come my fancy new RX-8 RENESIS still blew it engine a few 1000 miles ago after (just like 35yrs ago) after about 30K miles? Mazda ability to avoid catastrophic failure modes with the rotary hasn't gotten so much better as far as I can see, and they didn't have any these lightweight or synthetic oils then.
Fortunately Mazda DID have the same generous warranty
so life went on and I was sufficiently imprinted to swallow Mazda story hook, line, and sinker... for some crazy reason
Last edited by Spin9k; 08-03-2009 at 11:33 AM.
08-03-2009, 11:44 AM
#330
Now yall can see the oil analysis's i have been trying to get to ya
thanks to Ash 8!!
1st file is havoline 10w/30
2nd is havoline 10w/40
3nd is shell diesel oil
4th- castrol 10w/40
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...6&d=1249245814
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...7&d=1249245814
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...8&d=1249245814
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...9&d=1249245814
notice the viscosity numbers at the bottom of the reports.
olddragger
thanks to Ash 8!!
1st file is havoline 10w/30
2nd is havoline 10w/40
3nd is shell diesel oil
4th- castrol 10w/40
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...6&d=1249245814
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...7&d=1249245814
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...8&d=1249245814
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...9&d=1249245814
notice the viscosity numbers at the bottom of the reports.
olddragger
Last edited by olddragger; 08-03-2009 at 11:55 AM.
08-03-2009, 12:01 PM
#332
Ok Charles, here where I'm coming from. My 1974 RX-2 blew two engines, perhaps from oil, perhaps from seals, more likely coolant gaskets... or perhaps it's because the rotary is simply destined to meltdown on a regular basis after not so many miles, simply because it has to.
If some newfangled light-weight oil or other had so much to do with failure in the rotary, how come my fancy new RX-8 RENESIS still blew it engine a few 1000 miles ago after (just like 35yrs ago) after about 30K miles? Mazda ability to avoid catastrophic failure modes with the rotary hasn't gotten so much better as far as I can see, and they didn't have any these lightweight or synthetic oils then.
Fortunately Mazda DID have the same generous warranty so life went on and I was sufficiently imprinted to swallow Mazda story hook, line, and sinker... for some crazy reason
If some newfangled light-weight oil or other had so much to do with failure in the rotary, how come my fancy new RX-8 RENESIS still blew it engine a few 1000 miles ago after (just like 35yrs ago) after about 30K miles? Mazda ability to avoid catastrophic failure modes with the rotary hasn't gotten so much better as far as I can see, and they didn't have any these lightweight or synthetic oils then.
Fortunately Mazda DID have the same generous warranty
so life went on and I was sufficiently imprinted to swallow Mazda story hook, line, and sinker... for some crazy reason
08-03-2009, 12:11 PM
#333
Now yall can see the oil analysis's i have been trying to get to ya
thanks to Ash 8!!
1st file is havoline 10w/30
2nd is havoline 10w/40
3nd is shell diesel oil
4th- castrol 10w/40
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...6&d=1249245814
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...7&d=1249245814
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...8&d=1249245814
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...9&d=1249245814
notice the viscosity numbers at the bottom of the reports.
olddragger
thanks to Ash 8!!
1st file is havoline 10w/30
2nd is havoline 10w/40
3nd is shell diesel oil
4th- castrol 10w/40
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...6&d=1249245814
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...7&d=1249245814
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...8&d=1249245814
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...9&d=1249245814
notice the viscosity numbers at the bottom of the reports.
olddragger
nice ~~~
hmm ...
08-03-2009, 12:12 PM
#334
Momentum Keeps Me Going
OD, if we should be aiming for the 10 viscosity range, sure looks like we should be changeing oil every 3000miles and not much further.
Last edited by Spin9k; 08-03-2009 at 12:16 PM.
08-03-2009, 03:47 PM
#341
Super Moderator
The oil pump's part numbers:
RX-7 FC 1985- NA: N326-14-100
RX-7 FC 1985- Turbo:N318-14-100A
RX-7 FC 1989-NA: N318-14-100A
RX-8 2003- : N3H1-14-100
The numbers are not the same, but you will see later, that inside the pump's house, almost are all the same. Interesting that they used the turboed 13B's stronger oil pump in the NA from 1989.
The part numbers of the oil pump's rotors:
RX-7 FC 1985- NA: N326-14-140
RX-7 FC 1985- Turbo:N318-14-140
RX-7 FC 1989- NA: N318-14-140
RX-8 2003-: N326-14-140
Strange, that they pulled out from the drawer the old NA FC rotors for the Renesis oil pump.
The oil pressure regulator valve is the same in all of the modell above.
They raised the performance with almost 50%, but they did not modified the max. oil pressure. So they did not worry about the cooling affect of the oil flow.
Maybe the Renesis II. is the first rotary engine where Mazda recognize the unique oil pressure claim of the rotary (mainly Renesis). Could it be possible?
RX-7 FC 1985- NA: N326-14-100
RX-7 FC 1985- Turbo:N318-14-100A
RX-7 FC 1989-NA: N318-14-100A
RX-8 2003- : N3H1-14-100
The numbers are not the same, but you will see later, that inside the pump's house, almost are all the same. Interesting that they used the turboed 13B's stronger oil pump in the NA from 1989.
The part numbers of the oil pump's rotors:
RX-7 FC 1985- NA: N326-14-140
RX-7 FC 1985- Turbo:N318-14-140
RX-7 FC 1989- NA: N318-14-140
RX-8 2003-: N326-14-140
Strange, that they pulled out from the drawer the old NA FC rotors for the Renesis oil pump.
The oil pressure regulator valve is the same in all of the modell above.
They raised the performance with almost 50%, but they did not modified the max. oil pressure. So they did not worry about the cooling affect of the oil flow.
Maybe the Renesis II. is the first rotary engine where Mazda recognize the unique oil pressure claim of the rotary (mainly Renesis). Could it be possible?
And why have you stated that the Oil pump rotors are "almost are all the same" when the part numbers are IDENTICAL N326-14-140, why add in the TURBO FC oil pump set, a FACTORY RX-8 Turbo does not exist...does it?, so you are NOT comparing, only confusing.
As I said there is no difference, STRANGE?"why did Mazda pull an "old" pump out of the draw", well if you thought about that statement, the last Mazda NA motor made by them was the FC, which was pretty reliable.
STRANGE...No more stranger than using an oil pressure relief valve 0221-14-115 plunger and spring that is 40 years old.
I can pull out over 40 parts that are 40 years old and still used in the latest RX-8....Can you...
Fail!
08-03-2009, 04:23 PM
#342
Super Moderator
NO, they used the same oil pump and rotor set as the original 1985 NA FC in 1989 NA FC models.
N326-14-100A and N326-14-140, again the EXACT same "rotor set" as the S1 RX-8.
Fail!
Last edited by ASH8; 08-03-2009 at 04:26 PM.
08-03-2009, 05:30 PM
#347
Momentum Keeps Me Going
What Mazda has done in summary over the last 40 yrs, is bring the output levels of the rotary to semi-respectable current NA output levels, but in exchange, the overall reliability has improved some percentage, but nothing to write home about. Failures regularly occur and there are too many variables going on in the mix to be able to address blame conclusively, short of obtaining Mazda numbers (which I would dearly love to have access to!). Oil may be certainly a part of the issue, but if the holy grail 'best for startup' oil existed, Mazda hasn't found it...regardless of their recommendations if current failures are any example.
Beyond and in contest to that, I think we 'down in the ditches' actual car owners have some obligation to reveal our "How we saved the rotary engine from self destruct due to our oil", but the results are variable, and show me proof. Rotary oil recommendations appear still - to be a black art, I mean at least reading this thread you would think so as everyone has a unique take on it seemingly.
Last edited by Spin9k; 08-03-2009 at 05:34 PM.
08-03-2009, 06:35 PM
#348
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08-03-2009, 08:00 PM
#350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cidvicious831
Still have no idea what type of oil i need
Quote:
Originally Posted by rotarygod
Canola
Quote:
Originally Posted by olddragger
no ---peanut!!
OD
your all wrong it's 'oil of olay' makes your car's *** smooth and silky.
Originally Posted by cidvicious831
Still have no idea what type of oil i need
Quote:
Originally Posted by rotarygod
Canola
Quote:
Originally Posted by olddragger
no ---peanut!!
OD
your all wrong it's 'oil of olay' makes your car's *** smooth and silky.