9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

When I'm wrong I admit it. Synthetic is better. Is it needed in every engine? No. I can't believe people are still on the thicker equals better boat though. Cold starts do the most wear on any engine. The idea of oil "sticking" to the parts has been discussed in many articles and its just nonsense. I guess we all read the same stuff but interpret the data differently.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

not everything needs synthetic - yes
synthetic is better - yes
so is it better to have synthetic for every engines - yes, even tho its not needed.

Synthetic oil is like organic food, Im sure lots of people survive with conventional food, but hey, Organic is better.

cold start do the most wear on any engine - yes, I never said no to that
is it harder to pump 20w than 5w oil at start up - yes.

but is it really that much of a difference ?

Sometimes things on paper might not work the way it is in real life scenario.

Just like MSG that they use it in food(restaurant, whatever)

MSG is just an special chemical that imitates the special favor found in meats. on paper, its exactly the same as the real deal. but why some people can't take MSG at all and if they eat it they might die, but they have no problem eating real meats. Scientist have no idea why. but hey thats how it works.

thats the difference between real life scenario and on paper facts.

Its a pretty simple fact that our rotor bearings and stationary gear are not getting the right motor oil weight.



Im sure the oil companies know what they're doing when they put description such as "fuel economy" to lighter weight oil and "best for high performance, high rpm" engines to heavier oil for a reason.

Yes I know take the company/brand X's own advertisement a gain of salt. but they're not trying to compare other people's products to their own, they're just telling you what its product is for what application. and its not just 1 manufacture, every oil manufacture saids the same thing. so does that mean we should consider are they saying the truth ?

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Based on what? Did I miss a tech write-up somewhere?

NOW you are starting to veer into something I hinted at a few posts back........

PhillipM

But a heavy weight oil would be far less resistant to foaming and cavitation from the stationary gears than a lighter weight oil would be...

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Exactly.

waldo

I dont know if this has been covered, and I have not read this whole thread, but the very fact that the oil primarily only lubricates the inside of the rotor and e-shaft warrants a higher weight oil that mimics a gear oil.

Since the metering pump dictates flow into the housing, the pump itself is more responsible than the weight of oil. Obviously increasing the flow of the OMP is more effective, or adding an appropriate oil to the fuel for flow through the injectors, which assists the OMP. However, oil temp (and coolant temp) is more critical in a rotary as high temps can be fatal, so too heavy of oil (which results in a lower flow as described) can raise temps.

This would probably be the reason running our engines with high weight oils seems to be more effective. There simply are not as many parts, passages, and shear points as in a piston counterpart.

The Haas article makes a lot of sense to me. But it also makes a lot of sense why it does not directly apply to a rotary.

I am not as intimate with a rotary as some, but these would be my conclusions.

Spin9k

All this information and science is terribly interesting and informative BUT...

For example, the quote above just hints (as do so many of the posts) at the core of the problem of picking the 'best oil for the rotary'. We have so many different roles for the oil to perform like stationary gear and bearing lub, serious cooling of the rotors, burning clean in the engine, not to mention good film strength and dispersion to preserve the rotor seals.... And not to forget startup lubrication.

Many of these functions the oil must perform pull in differring directions as to picking the characteristic(s) that need to be focused on. I would say there really is NO 'one best oil', but rather 'several best oils' with the list specifing which oil suits perhaps the "average DD" or whatever and on-and-on. So the debate is really the best oil "for ME" and "for 'YOU" and "for the average car", etc., and will never be resolved based on personal opinions or even 1st hand experience with a small sampling of engines e.g., tearing down race engines. It's too specialized a sampling to project to all uses.

For specialized situations, like racing or track use, extreme hot weather stop-and-go comuting", etc., you need to focus on what specific oil characteristics meet those unique performance criteria best above all other needs. The same goes for DD, but then there's hot and moderate climate difference.

So the controversy over 'best oil' will never be solved unless Mazda can somehow guarantee a 'fit' of some new rotary engine's characteristics to to a certain specified oil thru their testing. Of course they had supposedly done that (over the last decades of production) , but with the 04-08 engines blowing up like popcorn in oil over an open fire, who ta hell really believes their recommendations ... the've not figured it out obviously either....

All I can say is MY chosen oil doesn't change thickness over time, starts with a reasonable weight base oil, has lots of friction reducers, and burns clean as a whistle leaving no engine, seal, or tailpipe residue during track use or even during lazy everyday driving. It's MY 'best oil'

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Yeah but was is too heavy of an oil? I ran heavier oil and it did not help on my second engine. But I think premix is more of a factor than the weight of oil.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Perhaps the conclusions in all this could be;

1) There are many ways to achieve a particular objective.
2) Buyer/user beware and exercise due diligence.
3) If you are intimidated by the concept, find someone trustworty to guide you.
4) The best guide to select is one who asks a LOT of questions about YOUR particular driving situation/context.
5) The best advice is easily explained and understood.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

you forgot one:

it's just engine oil, stop being an **** nitwit about it

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Maybe nose-picker? Navel-contemplator?
In any event, it has been am exemplary conversation amongst all of us this time around.

Spin9k

Let's do the rest to be fair...

it's just brake fluid
it's just brake pads
it's just tires
it's just a shock
it's just gasoline
it's just antifreeze
it's just a wheel
it's just an oil cooler
it's just a turbo
it's just a supercharger
it's just a water pump
it's just a fuel pump
it's just an intake
it's just muffler
it's just a CAT
it's just a shift lever
it's just a flywheel
it's just a battery

whew! ... that settles that Team; now all the **** nitwits among us can stop worrying about a whole host of things clogging up their brains.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Here's what Team may have been insinuating;

Few of us really need DOT5. DOT3 and a decent maintenence regimen will suffice.
Few of us really need anything more aggressive than Hawk HPS's (or similar), and maybe not even pads of that variety either.
Few of us really need anything other than the factory damper valving.
We cannot do much about the quality of gasoline except to buy it from reputable brands.
OTC anti-freezes are fine for those in the climates who need it.
Few of us need anything other than the factory wheels, except as regards style.
Nobody has yet proven the factory oil coolers to be insufficient for 99% of us.
How many turbo-equipped RX-8s are there? A niche.
Ditto.
Maybe it is. Who knows? I trust Mazmart's opinions but other than that........
The fuel pumps fail around 80K miles, especially when hot, and some people have a few ideas about improvements. IIRC, this is a fairly well-documanted phenomenon around here.
We all already know that intakes don't do squat and they are another "style" choice.
Mufflers haven't been "proven" to provide power, by themselves, have they?
Who has actually demonstrated that backpressure is an issue which affects 99% of us?
My tranny shifted fine with both the factory shifter AND the Axial Flow I now have. A third "style" choice.
Flywheels have mathematical gains that have been demonstrated in many different performance applications. How much weight needs to be removed before any differences are noticed?
Few of us actually "benefit" from racing batteries.
I think most people believe the factory tires to not be so swell and I would say they CAN be improved upon.


Anyone who has a REAL need to improve upon what Mazda did with the RX-8 certainly doesn't need help from a bunch of guys on a website.

So far, the consensus around here has been that the RX-8 is a far more capable vehicle than 99% of those of us who own it. Why, again, do we NEED to improve upon this list of parts?

On the other hand, Spin, Team may have been expressing his usual sarcasm and may actually be agreeing with you. Again, .

Vlaze

iTrader: (14)

I'm not going to be an *** about this but I'll keep it brief.

How about, it's just a car so stop going into details about it; how's that for one? If we wanted just a car the Rx8 would not of been an ideal choice. These cars are beyond the typical "just a car" as are other sports cars. It has to do with car enthusiastic people who invest in them and the majority in general tend to do things to get the most out of their sports car whether it involves oil, ignition, or pushing it beyond stock to FI or SC.

This thread is about the specifics of oil and understanding the effects in a car based on different weights. Kindly said, if you don't care for it then don't bother posting here or any other technical thread.

After all, it's just a thread, stop being an **** nitwit about it.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Fruit on a vine for some companies.

This thread has broader philosophical underpinnings than just oil.

Vlaze

iTrader: (14)

Agreed

Spin9k

Dog Fish Head time....perhaps a Burton Barton would suffice

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

And Obama thinks he pioneered the "Beer Summit"?

swoope

iTrader: (5)

wow,

that looks pretty good. disappointing they dont mention the hop or if it is dry hopped. or the ibu?

to funny the statement it is just oil...

the end of aftermarket!

beers

cidvicious831

so i just got an rx8 about 2 weeks ago and i've hear that royal purple 20w50 would work great for my car. this is coming from other rx8 owners. what do you guys think?

swoope

iTrader: (5)

really,

what other rx8 owner said 20w50 royal purple would be good for your car?

beers

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

we think that those other owners don't know sh*t from clay

swoope

iTrader: (5)

think this will help?

https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...0&postcount=37

btw, i was being nice!

beers

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

OMG - have we swapped personalities ? LOL

cidvicious831

well i got two friends that had rx7 and rx8. and some people on youtube. who have videos of their rx8. so what weight should i use? i hear good things about royal purple. any other choices?