shaunv74

The stock coils even new have a tendency to misfire and not create efficient combustion at high RPMs. It's common to see a gain in hp by replacing them not because they are doing anything magical but because the upgraded coils are actually performing as Mazda intended at higher rpm. Typically we see the long term fuel trims move when the mazmart or BHR kits are installed as well as smoother high rpm operation.

Also if you want to get in and replace coils every 30K then yes it's cheaper to do that but much more of a hassle. I've tracked and autocrossed with my Mazmart coils and don't see any misfires. I also, for some reason, saw some of the highest gains from MazdaManiacs dyno session back in January.

cliffkemp

My car is NA with 54k miles and I do have a few upgrades but stock coils and they are doing fine. People can spend their money all they want but, stock coils are fine. If you are going through coils, either your plug wires are not making good contact or your gap on your plugs are larger than they should be and are putting a strain on your coils. I know, I know the plugs are gapped .048 from the maker but, they dont always get it right. Its a wide gap to begin with and, you may or may not know if your plug wire boots are seating well with the plug end or the coil end although it may have snapped on like it should. With electrical parts, problems are hard to find. The stock coils are better than people give credit. They do need to be replaced every so often though. Best thing to do is change all the, plugs, wires, and coils at the same time when the dyno says you are losing hp.

shaunv74

How do you know they're fine?

cliffkemp

Its not a hp gain. That is my point. Yes it is true what you said if your coils are not performing as they should. There is no gain only restore to what it should be if the coils are performing as they should be. That is my point. My car last dynoed at 194. If my coils are going and next time it hits say.... 185 and I replace my coils and it goes back to 194. There is no gain only restoration of what it was before they starting acting up. The misfires may be more than just the coils. Connections to the plugs and coils could be worn.

shaunv74

Sure. The only thing I'm adding to your statement is that even new the stock coils under perform and are the weak link in the motor which has been proven many times already.

cliffkemp

They were fine as of my last oil change. The last dyno I had was 194 at the wheels and no broken lines in the dyno. It was smoothe other than when the ports transitioned at 6250 and 7250 where the line dips slightly. they are firing as they should but, I am going to replace the coils soon as I do know they are getting old and I am going to replace the plugs and wires as well. They have done well for me. I dont drive my car as hard as some do. I understand it is a hassel to change them out as well but, cheaper to put stock coils in and save the money as well. It is really the owners call. My point is, changing the coils will not give you any hp gain. For those that autox and drive like they stole it all the time, an upgrade will last longer than stock but, it wont give you a single hp.

cliffkemp

there are people out there running stock coils with FI and having no problems. Same with NOS. As long as your connections to the coil itself and the plug are very snug, the coil will work just fine. From working with electrical equipment and making wire for a living, connections are critical. You will find that if the connection is not good, the coil may overheat trying to fire as it should. I work with machinery that if the connection is not as it should be, it will heat the brushes up to the point where they will catch on fire. Carbon brushes for annealers can withstand over 5000 degrees F and I have seen them melt the wire that supplies them. I cannot stress what a good connection vs a bad connection can do to a coil. I have seen transformers melt due to this.

Marietta 8

amen, brother!!

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

I was one who jumped on the Mazsport coil bandwagon early on . I now very strongly suspect they are resposible for blowing my engine when I fitted the turbo . Since then I refitted some new stock coils and high quality autoexe leads and have been gradually increasing the boost thinking the coils are going to limit what I can do .
So far i'm good to about 320whp . Back in the day 330whp was thought to be the limit for stock coils so one might think i'm cutting it fine .

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

quote from 2006 LOL

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

When we were on the engine dyno for that 360 "session"... when we lost power we restored it by banging a new set of plugs in. I won't say on here what plugs they were, as I can guarantee NONE of you would believe me. And the rest of you would think we were silly. Stock coils, stock leads.

Cheers,
Hymee.

nmarz77

I'll believe you and won't even think you're silly for doing so.....let's hear it!

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

The engine dyno facility was located in what us a big cube bent eight horsepower shop specialising in competition engines. Hardly ever a rotor in sight. I suppose you can guess there was not a lot of RX-8 / Rotary spark plugs lying around... Actually, there was none. So that leaves not many options on other plugs to throw in her... 1/2 a set at a time LOL.

Cheers,
Hymee.

nmarz77

Besides the originals being fouled up....are you saying that these plugs contributed to slightly better performance over the "correct" plugs?

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

No, I'm not implying anything - just stating that as long as you get a good spark, then your pretty much OK.

Cheers,
Hymee.

cliffkemp

absolutely. there is nothing to be gained if the stock ignition is performing as it should. If you replace them, the only gain you may get with the more expensive upgrades is longevity, nothing more. Still, paying 100 or so dollars for a set of OEM coils and replacing them every 30k miles is still cheaper than buying an upgrade for 500 plus dollars. It is just a gimmick and always will be for those that dont know any better, just like the hp chip for the 8 that will give you 25 hp. The only gain is in the other people's wallets. Keep your car dynoed from time to time and replace the plugs, wires, and coils when performance starts dropping according to the dyno. It is good, cheap maintenance.

Flashwing

The BHR team has over 250 customers that would strongly disagree with both statements.

The cost of replacing your coils (approx $125 + shipping) as well as maintaining dynographs of your car would far and away exceed $500 if done every 30,000 miles. Why not simply replace a poor performing part once instead of doing it 4 or 5 times over the life of a vehicle?

The issues with the RX8 stock coils has been a very long and documented process and it has nothing to do with people not snapping in their plug terminal boots, poorly gapped plugs or not maintaining the car.

shaunv74

And that is the fallacy of your assumption. It does not.

nmarz77

I was actually questioning the plugs performance, which is directly related to hp output. If the performance of a certain plug is poor and is not firing off as it should then hp will decrease. As far as both the stock coils and plugs go, the issue is that by the time you realize they are shot, you have already been driving around on them for 10,000 miles wondering why you keep getting walked (at the track of course) by a 16 year old in hand me down 1985 Civic with dual fart pipes and a rear spoiler made of 2x4's and plywood that they stole from a local construction site. No, it's not that they have a turbo, nitrous or some magical JDM engine.....it's that your coils are fried, your plugs are fouled, and they have been only getting worse since the very first day you put them in. So please tell me again.....why not just install a set of aftermarket coils and plugs that you know will perform the same on day number 730 as they did on day number 1?

Flashwing

I haven't seen any specific information to date suggesting the NGK plugs for the RX8 are not up to snuff. NGK has, in my experience, had a good reputation as a parts manufacturer and they are the only company I am aware of that manufacturers the stock RX8 spark plugs.

With that in mind, the over two hundred BHR customers who have purchased and installed our ignition upgrade have never reported that the upgrade produced no noticable results whether they be mileage or overall changes in the way the car behaves in a positive manner.

We suggest that people look into changing their plugs as if their current plugs are fouled due to a failing/failed coil then the electrode might not be able to produce enough spark. Plug gap might be a problem with the stock coils but I've not seen any instances to date of plug gap, OEM or otherwise, being an issue with our kit.

With respect to cliffkemp, I'm curious to see what evidence he has that anyone is marketing these upgrades in an effort to simply make money with a gimmick that does nothing.

dillsrotary

so how about those dynos.....

cliffkemp

my turn first off, it doesnt matter how many customers they have, I would not buy their product as it does nothing for my car for the price. The dyno tells all. Second, stock coils are good for more than 30k miles and the only things that would make them not perform are one: bad connections, excessive heat due to the bad connections and the remote chance that it was bad out of the box as that can happen. Let me elaborate for you all. If the connection is bad where the coils connects to the wire, it can cause the coil to have to work harder to produce a spark at the plug. If the connection is bad at the wire and plug ditto and the coil can and will overheart depending on how bad the connection is. If the spark plug itself is not gapped correctly (can happen even though it should be correct from the manufacturer and is greater than .048) can overheat the coil as well as others being a factor at the same time. (when I mean bad connection....have you ever just rotated the batteries in your remote and the remote starts working again.... there you go) Another thing to go with this is the cost you refer to. As long as your connections are good and you keep your plugs and wires changed out, you will probably get more than 30K miles out of your plugs as I have and be more like 50k as I have. the dyno is optional to do but is a good indicator and maintenance tool to use. If I buy 3 sets of coils, I still save money and get about 200k miles on the car before I come close to the cost of the BHR set and if the previous conditions are holding true to an extent, even the BHR coil upgrades can fail. Sorry for all the writing but, it is what it is. There are no gains to be had with ANY upgrade only a restore to what it was if you coils are not working as they should and that would be due to the conditions I have stated. I work with high powered electrical machinery and see this all the time. We have 1000hp electrical motors that have this problem sometimes due to the brushes not making good contact with the commutator. It turns red hot. Same will happen to coils and you may not be realizing it til its too late. People can say what they want to to try to sell their product but, physics is physics and you cant get around that.

cliffkemp

It is not that it does nothing, it just doesnt produce more hp over stock if the stock coils are working. If they are not working, they should be replaced and keep all connections good. I have tried coils on my other car that claim more power and none work. More powerful coils will last longer under extreme conditions if there is a problem with the connections over the stock coil but, you will not get a single hp gain at all over the stock coils. It will only restore if they were not functioning as they should. Stock coil are adequate if put on correctly and the connections are good.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

The limitation for the stock coils is said to be 330whp when FI'd . How is it that a coil upgrade will allow you to surpass this if the stock coils are performing ok ?

shazy

Please when you write your paragraph. Can you please seperate them? Especially the one just before. It's giving me a headache...