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tdiddy's turbo thread

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Old 04-18-2008, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by tdiddy
I pulled the UIM off and I have the injectors correct. For those who don't know. The injector wire colors are:

FP1 - BlueGreen w/Red stripe & White w/Blue stripe
RP1 - BlueGreen w/Black stripe & White w/Blue stripe
FS - Green w/Red stripe & White w/Blue stripe
RS - Blue w/Black stripe & White/Blue stripe
FP2 - Blue w/Black stripe & White/Blue stripe
RP2 - White w/Green stripe & White/Blue stripe
Originally Posted by swoope
i was thinking the same thing.. what would be the odds.

the ltft and stft look the same? i think you explained them like that...

beers
Originally Posted by Charles R. Hill
I couldn't imagine having made the same mistake twice, especially since I now understand the reason Mazda did the injector harness the way they did. Plus, I think Tommy and I checked all that before the UIM went back on and he has checked them since then, too.
Ray is correct, I already checked that the injectors are wired properly. That is not the problem.
Old 04-18-2008, 09:16 AM
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It is supposed to rain here for the next couple of days so I have some time to try some things.

First, I am going to pull the UIM back off. I will be checking the Purge Solenoid valve, catch tank, SSV, VDI, vacuum chamber, Oil Nozzle Bleed, and Jet Air Bleed. I will be installing a fuel pressure gauge and checking the fuel pressure. I will again be verifying the injector wiring and I will possibly remove and reinstall the injectors just to make sure they are seated properly.

After all that, I will be verifying the ignition wiring, connectors, and coils are all properly installed. I will be verifying the plug wires are properly connected and I will be checking the plugs again and replacing if necessary.

Finally, I am going to reposition the rotors so that the engine will hopefully hold pressure. Maybe RotoryGod or MM will chime in but I don't think there is any port overlap in the Renesis so I should be able to do this without corking the exhaust somehow.

If I can't find a problem by doing all this then I will try to find something to test the MAF sensor and MAF sensor tube. I don't have much room to move the sensor around but maybe repositioning it in the MAF tube a little further from the turbo inlet will help.

If none of this works I will probably push the thing out into the street, open the fuel tank, start the car, toss in a molotov coctail, and make smores.
Old 04-18-2008, 09:49 AM
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If I were allowed to chime in I would tell you to place each rotor at "TDC" as that will isolate the intake and exhaust ports from one another. The only problem will be isolating each housing from the other.
Old 04-18-2008, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by tdiddy
If none of this works I will probably push the thing out into the street, open the fuel tank, start the car, toss in a molotov coctail, and make smores.

BTW, I empathize, Bro.
Old 04-18-2008, 09:58 AM
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Hmm, maybe try putting a screen right in front of the turbo. Where are your other screens right now? Just before and after the MAF holder tube?
Old 04-18-2008, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Charles R. Hill
If I were allowed to chime in I would tell you to place each rotor at "TDC" as that will isolate the intake and exhaust ports from one another. The only problem will be isolating each housing from the other.
You are always welcome to chime in! TDC would work for one housing but wouldn't the (15 degree?) rotor offset cause a problem with the other.

Originally Posted by staticlag
Hmm, maybe try putting a screen right in front of the turbo. Where are your other screens right now? Just before and after the MAF holder tube?
I thought of that but in the log I took last night the airflow was much more stable. I want to try and eliminate any "other" possibilities before saying its MAF related and changing the setup in any way.
Old 04-18-2008, 10:34 AM
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Reread what you quoted from me, Tommy.
Old 04-18-2008, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Charles R. Hill
Reread what you quoted from me, Tommy.
Yeah, I noticed that. I'm researching it right now. When rotor 1 is at TDC is rotor 2 at BDC? Is that the offset?
Old 04-18-2008, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by canzoomer
Also, the RX-8 determines air flow by using a MAF ( Mass Air FLOW) meter, then mutiplying the result by the pressure detected by the barometric pressure sensor?
Is this true?

Last edited by tdiddy; 04-18-2008 at 12:07 PM.
Old 04-18-2008, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by tdiddy
Yeah, I noticed that. I'm researching it right now. When rotor 1 is at TDC is rotor 2 at BDC? Is that the offset?
Now that I think about it, when rotor 1 is at absolute "TDC", with its apex between the intake and exhaust ports, rotor 2 may actually have both intake and exhaust ports closed, with its apex between the spark plugs.
Old 04-18-2008, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Charles R. Hill
Now that I think about it, when rotor 1 is at absolute "TDC", with its apex between the intake and exhaust ports, rotor 2 may actually have both intake and exhaust ports closed, with its apex between the spark plugs.
That is exactly what my research has driven me to think. 120 degree offset.

http://www.rotaryengineillustrated.com/re101/cycle.php
Old 04-18-2008, 10:40 PM
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If the car idles, which has been established, i would be shooting the seals with starting fluid rather than trying to pressurize the system. So much easier.
Old 04-18-2008, 10:43 PM
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I thought he already did that, too, but I am not sure.
Old 04-18-2008, 10:46 PM
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I think he did... but he wants to test all the mechanicals as thoroughly as possible before caving to the MAF housing issue.
Old 04-18-2008, 10:48 PM
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The MAF housing probably doesn't have anything to do with it directly.
Its placement might.
The wandering MAF reading, coupled with the crazy high intake vacuum is really suspect to me.
Old 04-18-2008, 10:48 PM
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So if he has verified there is not a vacuum leak in the manifold, what is it we are testing doing this then?
Old 04-18-2008, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
The MAF housing probably doesn't have anything to do with it directly.
Its placement might.
The wandering MAF reading, coupled with the crazy high intake vacuum is really suspect to me.
Ok yeah - I need to clarify. THe MAF housing being so close to the turbo.
Old 04-18-2008, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by tdiddy
That is exactly what my research has driven me to think. 120 degree offset.
Which would be 180 degrees at the e-shaft(?).
Old 04-18-2008, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by tdiddy
Is this true?
No.
The MAF is g/sec. Calculated load is approximately the MAF reading, but VE and TPS play into the figure.
Old 04-19-2008, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
the crazy high intake vacuum is really suspect to me.
The highest the intake vacuum has been is ~20inHg. I saw that at idle on a warm restart with a vacuum testing gauge. Most of the time its ~19inHg at idle when the car is warm. The vacuum reading on my boost gauge is just under 500mmHg at idle when the car is warm. This tells me the readings on the boost gauge and vacuum gauge are pretty accurate.

Is that vacuum reading really all that high? The factory service manual says 19.6 - 16.6inHg. I would say that it is in that range 99% of the time. The readings I told you about before were from the boost controler which is not accurate in vacuum. I bought a vacuum gauge and I dont look at the boost controller reading anymore.
Old 04-19-2008, 10:16 AM
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Mine is about -22 at startup...and idles about -19/20 when warm

Much better than the old motor tht idled at 16-17...
Old 04-19-2008, 02:30 PM
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Tommy pm me with your # if you need some help, Scott
Old 04-19-2008, 05:13 PM
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With Scotts help we identified the problem in about 30 min. Its the MAF/MAF housing.
Old 04-19-2008, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by tdiddy
With Scotts help we identified the problem in about 30 min. Its the MAF/MAF housing.
.....
Old 04-19-2008, 07:19 PM
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I know, I know. You told me it was probably the MAF/MAF tube last week.


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