Esmeril Racing 20b conversion kit/guide....testing the waters!
09-24-2009, 09:26 PM
#54
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Exactly. What is the point of swapping in a piston engine? If I wanted to do that, I would have bought an FC and did the whole thing for under 20k. Once you do that swap, you dont have an rx anymore. the whole point of the rotary is that you can keep your weight distribution around 50/50 not only side to side and front to back but, the rotary is mounted lower to give you that handling like no other. You change that by putting in a piston engine, you just kill the whole soul of the car.
09-24-2009, 09:46 PM
#55
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Maybe so, but what are the dimensions of an LS6? Its huge, and will sit a lot further ahead of the wheels, throwing balance more than what an additional rotor+ snails would. Weight is 1 factor, but where it's applied has a major effect as well. There is no disputing a rotary is the better fit for an RX-8.
09-24-2009, 10:20 PM
#57
Maybe so, but what are the dimensions of an LS6? Its huge, and will sit a lot further ahead of the wheels, throwing balance more than what an additional rotor+ snails would. Weight is 1 factor, but where it's applied has a major effect as well. There is no disputing a rotary is the better fit for an RX-8.
I still say this at the risk of people thinking I am pro-piston swapping on this car, which I am not. I honestly believe you should just go buy a Corvette if you want pushrod power. It's just tiring to hear the same old out-dated arguments when people believe LSX blocks are 800-lbs or something crazy.
LOL I could fit a 2-stroke 49cc in the transmission tunnel!
09-25-2009, 07:00 AM
#58
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Actually in the 8 you could get an LSX behind the front wheels. There some pictures floating around here someone of a car that did just that. Would the balance be off? Yes. Would it be thrown off with a 3-rotor 20B as well? Yes.
I still say this at the risk of people thinking I am pro-piston swapping on this car, which I am not. I honestly believe you should just go buy a Corvette if you want pushrod power. It's just tiring to hear the same old out-dated arguments when people believe LSX blocks are 800-lbs or something crazy.
LOL I could fit a 2-stroke 49cc in the transmission tunnel!
I still say this at the risk of people thinking I am pro-piston swapping on this car, which I am not. I honestly believe you should just go buy a Corvette if you want pushrod power. It's just tiring to hear the same old out-dated arguments when people believe LSX blocks are 800-lbs or something crazy.
LOL I could fit a 2-stroke 49cc in the transmission tunnel!
09-25-2009, 08:35 AM
#59
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I agree with that but its good to understand that a stock port 20B with a set of apex seals(which are just 350$) and no dowel pinning can generate 600-650whp on just 15psi and pump gas. So if you get an engine, a Oring set, a set of apex seals and some time is all it takes to get it "built"...its not as extensive as attempting the same feat on a 13B. You can get a 20b for about 2500 if you really search hard plus say the kit is 2.5 grand....and all the other stuff is 3000....you could potentially end up with a 20b conversion that is around 8-10k which is not that bad considering Mazsport was selling their turbo kit for that much and actually sold a few and it was rated for mid to high 400whp (I have yet to see one break 400whp).
Best regards,
Chris
Best regards,
Chris
The 20B can reliably make a lot more power and is a better platform to work with than the Renessis if you want a lot of power.
Doing a forced induction setup on the Renessis costs roughly 8 - 10k.
Doing a built 20B swap into the RX8 would cost roughly 8 - 10k.
If this is true, why would anyone choose forced induction in the Renessis over the 20B swap?
09-25-2009, 10:45 AM
#60
What I get from this statement is:
The 20B can reliably make a lot more power and is a better platform to work with than the Renessis if you want a lot of power.
Doing a forced induction setup on the Renessis costs roughly 8 - 10k.
Doing a built 20B swap into the RX8 would cost roughly 8 - 10k.
If this is true, why would anyone choose forced induction in the Renessis over the 20B swap?
The 20B can reliably make a lot more power and is a better platform to work with than the Renessis if you want a lot of power.
Doing a forced induction setup on the Renessis costs roughly 8 - 10k.
Doing a built 20B swap into the RX8 would cost roughly 8 - 10k.
If this is true, why would anyone choose forced induction in the Renessis over the 20B swap?
Chris
Last edited by ChrisRX8PR; 09-25-2009 at 10:48 AM.
09-25-2009, 07:33 PM
#61
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Did everyone just skip over what I was saying? Putting a piston engine in, no matter how light, will change the car completely. Its not the 50/50 distribution, its not the side/side distribution, it is more the top the bottom and where the weight is centered. The rotary, even if heavy, still sits lower and this gives the car that change-direction-on-demand that makes the car unique in its ability to handle. Putting in a 20b would still maintain this balance that you can never get from a v8 or v6. I believe if a kit was made so that you could basically, replace the front end of the car over a weekend, the swap kit would be worth every penny as you would have many that would just drop their car by and have it done as they do with the pettit if they are not mechanically inclined. The others that are, will just do it in their garage or take it to one that has the adequate tools and do it that way. Doing it this way would be better but, as we all know, would put the cost for making the kit high as you would be building the front half of the car. Perhaps a core charge like option could be done. Just some thoughts and see what you all think. Many of us would love to have a 20b, turbo or not, put in our cars, the easier, the better.
09-25-2009, 10:22 PM
#63
You can turbo the Renesis reliably for under $6,000
Swapping a 20B into the RX-8 for anything UNDER $20k is a dream.
Even with a reasonably priced swap kit, you still need a standalone EMS, custom wiring for the standalone, a 20B long block with manifold, the engine will need to be rebuilt, a full return style fuel system, turbocharger and external wastegate and blow-off valve, custom manifold/downpipe, upgraded clutch OR a Tremec T-56 transmission plus the custom fab work to install it, plus labor for a shop to install of this, and custom tuning. Add it up
Swapping a 20B into the RX-8 for anything UNDER $20k is a dream.
Even with a reasonably priced swap kit, you still need a standalone EMS, custom wiring for the standalone, a 20B long block with manifold, the engine will need to be rebuilt, a full return style fuel system, turbocharger and external wastegate and blow-off valve, custom manifold/downpipe, upgraded clutch OR a Tremec T-56 transmission plus the custom fab work to install it, plus labor for a shop to install of this, and custom tuning. Add it up
09-26-2009, 01:09 PM
#68
Not hard, buy a wrecked camaro, firebird, or transam, pull the engine tranny, and sell the rest of the car off.
If you don't buy a donor car for parts, you can buy an engine/tranny combo for around $2500-$3000.
Then its just custom work after that. You can do it for under what I said, you just have to be willin to work for it and do alot of work yourself.
09-26-2009, 01:37 PM
#69
NO A/C :(
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^ yup....
I guess this 20b route could work out considering I always thought this swap would cost atleast $40,000 to do lol (for someone else to do all the work).
I guess this 20b route could work out considering I always thought this swap would cost atleast $40,000 to do lol (for someone else to do all the work).
09-27-2009, 04:50 PM
#70
Uncontrollable drifter
Will everyone just **** off with the goddamn ls1,2,7,x engine swap? Most of us don't give a ****! The thread is for 2 0 B conversion. No more god damn details on weight, size and pistons, etc and etc, blah blah blah. I suggest if you don't have anything pertaining to the 2 0 B conversion, then stop typing. BTW Chris, make a subframe, new engine mounts, and the steering shaft extension using a stock rx7 transmission(first) and you'll see how many people will start buying it.
09-27-2009, 06:48 PM
#71
Not hard, buy a wrecked camaro, firebird, or transam, pull the engine tranny, and sell the rest of the car off.
If you don't buy a donor car for parts, you can buy an engine/tranny combo for around $2500-$3000.
Then its just custom work after that. You can do it for under what I said, you just have to be willin to work for it and do alot of work yourself.
If you don't buy a donor car for parts, you can buy an engine/tranny combo for around $2500-$3000.
Then its just custom work after that. You can do it for under what I said, you just have to be willin to work for it and do alot of work yourself.
Even if you could custom fab yourself, you still need a standalone EMS, completely new return style fuel system, custom headers/exhaust (you could make them I guess) and more. It would be tight making it under $10K
But I think this thread has gotten off-track enough...
09-27-2009, 09:58 PM
#72
Will everyone just **** off with the goddamn ls1,2,7,x engine swap? Most of us don't give a ****! The thread is for 2 0 B conversion. No more god damn details on weight, size and pistons, etc and etc, blah blah blah. I suggest if you don't have anything pertaining to the 2 0 B conversion, then stop typing. BTW Chris, make a subframe, new engine mounts, and the steering shaft extension using a stock rx7 transmission(first) and you'll see how many people will start buying it.
Chris
