ChrisRX8PR

iTrader: (1)

The purpose of this thread is to really get a grasp about what people are looking for in the RX-8 community.

We have pushed the Renesis pretty far compared to our original goals, and now feel as though we will continue to support it as a platform but want to expand the options to our customers.

Its as simple as this, if you want in the range if 400whp or less(reliably) you can do that with our kit and some add-ons(Ignition,apex seals, etc) we currently sell.

However, if you want more, say 500-600 and above, and you want road-course reliability (i.e. full power/boost for long periods of time) then the renesis would be on the edge of reliability. For this, we know there is an option, add a 3rd triangle to handle some of the load and voila, you have reliable power up to a crazy level. So far, only custom builds have been done, be it by a shop or independent talented few that have gone this route. This proves to either require great skill (like the geniuses rgonza, anjeljoel etc...) or lots of money like going to a shop and paying 30k to get it done....or getting scammed for that matter.

I am opening this thread for discussion on the following and only on the following:

Should Esmeril offer a simple, DIY type kit that includes engine mounts, a steering column extension, a turbo manifold, a couple cross member extensions, a radiator and a guide with pictures, would there be enough people interested to warrant development of such a kit?

It will still require mechanical/fabrication ability as you will still need to make your own intercooler piping and down pipe(to match your turbo), modification to the cross member per the guide, fuel system, and the EMS install of your choice(we could offer a fuel system separately). If you feel you have an issue setting up some intercooler piping and welding a down pipe you probably should not be going down this road in the first place but a lot of people have the ability and only need a nudge and this could be it.

Let me know what you think...

Best regards,

Chris

DynamicDookie

iTrader: (3)

I was just talking with my tuner about this the other day. What would we have to address in the drivetrain? replacement? Maybe there could be parts and adapters that would let you bolt up the FD's 5spd.

How about a DIY for a 13b REW?

ChrisRX8PR

iTrader: (1)

I know for a fact (Rgonza's testimony) that the FD tranny last less than the RX-8 tranny when attached to a 20b. I also know for a fact that the rx-8 tranny doesn't break until at least 550whp unless you are abusive. I have proved that and Rgonza drove for over a year on a stock RX-8 tranny with 700whp+ simply because he wasn't abusing the car with slicks on a race track....and did plenty of high powered runs in that period of time.

Either way, we will let the buyers find their own ways to cope with this, we are just facilitating putting the 20b in the RX-8.

Chris

Red Devil

I think this offering is a great idea. I definitely agree as you already noted that a plug and play Microtech/Haltech, etc...would be a desired option.

gh8st

iTrader: (10)

i like the idea of a 13b diy, but it is something i would definitely be interested in down the road

obx8

1. Sounds great and I could be interested down the road also.

2. Just a thought, but would it have to be turbo?

3. Of course you can use my car for testing!

ChrisRX8PR

iTrader: (1)

It does not have to be turbo, why would it? N/A is a great option for this engine.

Chris

p.s.I appreciate your offering but I wouldn't mind testing this on my car

ChrisRX8PR

iTrader: (1)

Esmeril Racing being an advocate for the Renesis, we are kind off against doing 13b swaps...simply because all the work/fabrication is not worth it in our eyes when we know what the renesis can do. A 13b REW at 500whp and above is not the most reliable thing either, its just been done alot more times so why spend all the time and money for an engine swap for a marginal improvement of what can be done with a renesis?

Chris

tubingchamp

iTrader: (3)

^^

I think with more time and exploration such as yours, the renny will be able to out perform a 13B.. Think about the age difference.. :P

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Agree 100%

ChrisRX8PR

iTrader: (1)

Exactly, we could not agree more...the engine IS limited by the port size and shape but I know 500hp can be done reliable ...and it has a great power band when done correctly.

Above 500whp, even a traditional 13b is not that reliable...many people reach it...but few enjoy their car at that level on a daily basis for more than a year or two(noticed I said few), this few perform many modifications to the engine which would not be necessary in a 20b for the same whp levels. For that we are considering offering this 20b option.

Chris

Red Devil

Would your engine mounts be for a peripheral port 3 rotor, or side port 3 rotor?

ChrisRX8PR

iTrader: (1)

They would be for a 3 rotor period (whatever intake port you desire), the intake port does not affect a 3 rotor regarding engine mount location.

Chris

racerboy59

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elysium19

iTrader: (1)

This is a great idea, I think that the largest limiting factor is going to be potential market. How many kits would you have to expect to sell for you to consider it a worthwhile project? 10? 20? 100?

My feeling is that the number of people is pretty limited who fall into the range of desires and abilities for whom this would be a good solution. They would have to:
a) think that 400whp is not enough. (most people who think that have never driven a 400hp car!)
AND
b) not have the fabrication ability to do it themselves
AND
c) want to pay someone local to install your kit but not simply have that person do a 20b swap (which is pricey, but could be offset a little by selling the original engine.

Good luck, it's excellent that you're considering this, but I dont know how big the market would be.

ChrisRX8PR

iTrader: (1)

No and no.

We do not intend to make this a drop in affair by any means. This is for those that want/can tackle the process of the swap including any sub-systems. ER does not want to be liable for this kind of project, we are just wondering if facilitating a semi-kit(emphasis on "semi") makes sense. It would be meant to simplify the process for those that want to go down this road.....

So far from the reply's and pm's I have gotten since I started the thread, we probably should not go down this road....the rx-8 community does not appear to be ready for such a thing(at least that is what its looking like)...this is not a turbo kit or an ignition upgrade we are talking about here....its a complete engine swap, questions about MPG, CEL's and "make it Bolt-on" are a clear indication that maybe we are not ready for this kind of product just yet...

it was a noble thought though...

Chris

racerboy59

Ahh i see. OK then

Renesis 8

I think this would be a great product to put out on the market. I would probably eventually pick one up depending on the price. I want to to be well over 400 whp.

pdxhak

iTrader: (2)

I think you should make a 3 rotor renesis kit...

bse50

This is not a bad idea Chris, the only problem would be modifying the crossmember. That's a pain.
Adding a wiring harness for a given ECU to retain the stock pcm as well would be sweet

racerboy59

Sorry I didn't read the post properly first time, now I realise you were only considering making supporting modifications to enable you to install your own 3 rotor.

Phalkhan

iTrader: (1)

I agree that this is not a feasible product at this time. I think this could be great in a couple of years. I just dont think that the average owner would have the money to invest in a 20b swap AT THIS TIME. Me personally, I wont be done paying off me car until mid 2010. I would buy this kit, but until my car is paid off i wouldn't want to over-exstend my budget. I would hope you would maybe consider trying this again later down the line.

Motomouse

iTrader: (1)

I would like to see this Chris.
Good idea !!!!

chickenwafer

iTrader: (9)

I think it's a great idea, Chris. The problem is even with a reasonably priced conversion kit, you still need a built 20B, turbo setup, fuel system, standalone EMS, and more so in the end it's still a VERY expensive project and really only a few owners can afford it.

I still think you should offer it, Chris. It would help turn heads to the RX-8, as well.

ChrisRX8PR

iTrader: (1)

I agree with that but its good to understand that a stock port 20B with a set of apex seals(which are just 350$) and no dowel pinning can generate 600-650whp on just 15psi and pump gas. So if you get an engine, a Oring set, a set of apex seals and some time is all it takes to get it "built"...its not as extensive as attempting the same feat on a 13B. You can get a 20b for about 2500 if you really search hard plus say the kit is 2.5 grand....and all the other stuff is 3000....you could potentially end up with a 20b conversion that is around 8-10k which is not that bad considering Mazsport was selling their turbo kit for that much and actually sold a few and it was rated for mid to high 400whp (I have yet to see one break 400whp).

Best regards,

Chris