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20b swap by scott

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Old 12-20-2007, 10:55 PM
  #576  
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I agree and disagree that Scott needs to provide updates. On one hand it is a private matter between him and stick. The details should remain between them. But he is a sponsor here selling products and services.
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Old 12-20-2007, 11:26 PM
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the Saga continues.

This is getting better than Nip and Tuck!
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Old 12-21-2007, 12:18 AM
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as someone who does their own custom work I can appreciate all the angles on this one, it's why I generally stick to doing it only for myself

the "off-the-shelf part purchasing monkeys" will never understand

Last edited by TeamRX8; 12-21-2007 at 12:20 AM.
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Old 12-21-2007, 12:25 AM
  #579  
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Not sure, how many 20B swap had Mazsport done in the pass, which is no small task to undertake, and Stick could have been the guinea pig for this undertaking. Lack of experience could certainly contributed to the work scope and unreasonable delay of this project.

It would be interesting to see what's Stick's comment about what just transpired, hoping he didn't went postal yet.
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Old 12-21-2007, 12:30 AM
  #580  
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It sounds to me from Scott's post above that a good part of the scope creep (and associated cost increase and delays) was initiated by the stickman himself. I realize scott can't exactly come out and say that but it would make sense for this to be the case. Without trying to start another 10-page brawl, it would be great if stick could comment on this. If nothing else, we should get some pics of the progress tomorrow...
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Old 12-21-2007, 01:08 AM
  #581  
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Escalating expectations and diminishing budget.
Its that plain and simple.
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Old 12-21-2007, 07:38 AM
  #582  
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my guess is the car will be for sale after the motor gets put it.

i know some people have been hard on scott for not posting. But i believe its better to not post in a thread that is as drama filled as this one is, he is probably reading the thread and is keeping stick updated. But my asumption was there had to be a second side to this story, and i knew this isnt a project you can budget unless you have a unlimited source of income.The custom fab work takes time which = $$$$.

This isnt anything like the other 20b swaps that have been done.

This is the way stick wanted it, and it costs more money to do it.
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Old 12-21-2007, 08:10 AM
  #583  
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Originally Posted by VarneyMazda
my guess is the car will be for sale after the motor gets put it.

i know some people have been hard on scott for not posting. But i believe its better to not post in a thread that is as drama filled as this one is, he is probably reading the thread and is keeping stick updated. But my asumption was there had to be a second side to this story, and i knew this isnt a project you can budget unless you have a unlimited source of income.The custom fab work takes time which = $$$$.

This isnt anything like the other 20b swaps that have been done.

This is the way stick wanted it, and it costs more money to do it.

yep its not like any other 20B swap. Because we did ours in about a month and have enjoyed it since and he still waiting for it after a year.
I guess Mine , Rgonza's and manuels are pieces of **** then. \

Its so easy to say stupid comments and point fingers when its somebody else work you are talking about.
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Old 12-21-2007, 08:15 AM
  #584  
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hold up dont get so damn defensive. Thats not what i was getting at, his 20b swap sits alot further back into the firewall than yours, he used an fd tranny and the where the motor was mounted the shifter would have been in back seat. So that need to be customized too.

Its not about who is better or not, its just matter of he wanted something is different than what u guys have done. And unfortunately it costs more money.

Last edited by VarneyMazda; 12-21-2007 at 09:05 AM.
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Old 12-21-2007, 09:00 AM
  #585  
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Originally Posted by Charles R. Hill
What rather surprises me is the level of emotional attachment and the choosing of sides some of us have taken when we are not even the principals in the story.
Well written.
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Old 12-21-2007, 02:03 PM
  #586  
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short response:
not finished. i'll get updated every week with the progress. i'll post the progress here every friday w/ or w/o photo.

for last month and a half, they've been having tough time with the fuel rails, but we all hope the issue will be resolved soon.

long response to follow.

Last edited by stickmantijuana; 12-21-2007 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 12-21-2007, 02:20 PM
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a long response...

a long response...

First of all, I must say CRH brings up an important issue. It's the sad fact that we're pre-divided into two groups even before any arguments arise: the die-hard mazsport fans vs. the rest. I say that here because I see it everywhere on this forum. Now, all I ask for the loyal fans is to pick up your own brain from where you left it last time and to be yourselves. If you insist saying something (both via pm or post) on behalf of the entire group, please be my guest in your own local meet.

For those still reading, I’m not here to bash on Scott. What I am here to convey, however, is list facts and obvious problems I see with Mazsport: the good and the bad.

As for this project, here are the facts to get out of the way:
1. This started as a complex project with tons of ideas—for those who still remember my very first original thread, the project was about 10second car that’s street drivable, reliable, and competent on the tracks. Some ideas got tossed; some remained, and some were improved upon.
2. I enjoy driving fast cars, but I don’t have a clue about how difficult or expensive it is to build them.
3. I was originally given a fixed budget window and a time window for the project, which were quickly surpassed even before the engine got mounted.
4. I did agree to pushing the engine back without knowing what I was getting myself into. I never agreed to or got informed about anything else that would bring any more difficulty to this project (according to my limited knowledge about cars).
5. Scott put in the best money can buy into this project. It’s just the way he does things. He could’ve put some cheap-o-components and tried to make profit that way, but he did not, and for that, I’m very grateful and find myself between two hard places in trying to defend him and to burn him alive for taking this long.

About Scott, after working with him for a few years (from my int-x days), I think I’m qualified to say something about him. I personally think he should be working on million dollar restoration projects on some race cars from the previous eras. There’s one thing that I can say with utmost confidence about Scott; it’s the fact that he does not fool around with the component quality, is extremely skilled at what he does, and stands behind his product once it’s finished and is delivered to the customers. That combination alone is a tough one to beat if you’re looking for the best end product. What he doesn’t excel at, however, is managing customer relationship while the car’s in the shop.

If I had a racecar I’m preparing for a life-death race, there’s no question I’d hire Scott, give him everything I have, and chain him to a car until it’s done. But most of us do not track cars for living; most of us turbocharge our cars for the sheer experience. What Scott fails to perceive has been the fact that the experience isn’t only about driving, it’s also about the process between charging the credit card and receiving the promised product. If I must struggle through months of ignorance, broken promises, and countless Friday nights waiting pointlessly for his updates that never came, I just wouldn’t care for it, even if I were given an rx8 that can match F1 speeds in the end. No hobby is worth stressing my life over.

I guess my point is Scott’s strength is also his weakness—his need/obsession to dial the car in the way he wants it. It’s a good enough of a reason for the tremendous waits for many, but personally, it hasn’t been for me. As a medical professional, if I chopped up every desmoid cancer patients in half just because I enjoy saving lives, what good would I be? It’s about improving the quality of life, not about fulfilling my needs to lengthen lifespan at whatever the cost.

Anyway, to put this to rest, I was given two options:
1. tow it somewhere
2. wait more until he’s done

I chose the latter. This time, deadline wasn’t given, and I was promised weekly updates which I’ll post here every Friday. I’m as pissed off as I could be. I gave everything I had to this project, which includes my bank accounts, stocks, my vacation times, and my patience. It’s really consuming my life in ways that are becoming detrimental for my future plans and goals.

Many would say it was my fault that I wasn’t completely aware what I was getting myself into, but I was never sincerely communicated about the magnitude of this project either. I’m excited as hell that I’m getting the best possible stuff, engineering, and expertise the universe can offer for my car, but I’m afraid all this hardship and frustration of waiting quite frankly just won’t be worth any amount of fun driving such car can offer. But what can I do at this point? I just hope it’s finished soon.
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Old 12-21-2007, 02:35 PM
  #588  
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Dude, this sucks.
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Old 12-21-2007, 02:36 PM
  #589  
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Originally Posted by stickmantijuana
a long response...

First of all, I must say CRH brings up an important issue. It's the sad fact that we're pre-divided into two groups even before any arguments arise: the die-hard mazsport fans vs. the rest. I say that here because I see it everywhere on this forum. Now, all I ask for the loyal fans is to pick up your own brain from where you left it last time and to be yourselves. If you insist saying something (both via pm or post) on behalf of the entire group, please be my guest in your own local meet.

For those still reading, I’m not here to bash on Scott. What I am here to convey, however, is list facts and obvious problems I see with Mazsport: the good and the bad.

As for this project, here are the facts to get out of the way:
1. This started as a complex project with tons of ideas—for those who still remember my very first original thread, the project was about 10second car that’s street drivable, reliable, and competent on the tracks. Some ideas got tossed; some remained, and some were improved upon.
2. I enjoy driving fast cars, but I don’t have a clue about how difficult or expensive it is to build them.
3. I was originally given a fixed budget window and a time window for the project, which were quickly surpassed even before the engine got mounted.
4. I did agree to pushing the engine back without knowing what I was getting myself into. I never agreed to or got informed about anything else that would bring any more difficulty to this project (according to my limited knowledge about cars).
5. Scott put in the best money can buy into this project. It’s just the way he does things. He could’ve put some cheap-o-components and tried to make profit that way, but he did not, and for that, I’m very grateful and find myself between two hard places in trying to defend him and to burn him alive for taking this long.

About Scott, after working with him for a few years (from my int-x days), I think I’m qualified to say something about him. I personally think he should be working on million dollar restoration projects on some race cars from the previous eras. There’s one thing that I can say with utmost confidence about Scott; it’s the fact that he does not fool around with the component quality, is extremely skilled at what he does, and stands behind his product once it’s finished and is delivered to the customers. That combination alone is a tough one to beat if you’re looking for the best end product. What he doesn’t excel at, however, is managing customer relationship while the car’s in the shop.

If I had a racecar I’m preparing for a life-death race, there’s no question I’d hire Scott, give him everything I have, and chain him to a car until it’s done. But most of us do not track cars for living; most of us turbocharge our cars for the sheer experience. What Scott fails to perceive has been the fact that the experience isn’t only about driving, it’s also about the process between charging the credit card and receiving the promised product. If I must struggle through months of ignorance, broken promises, and countless Friday nights waiting pointlessly for his updates that never came, I just wouldn’t care for it, even if I were given an rx8 that can match F1 speeds in the end. No hobby is worth stressing my life over.

I guess my point is Scott’s strength is also his weakness—his need/obsession to dial the car in the way he wants it. It’s a good enough of a reason for the tremendous waits for many, but personally, it hasn’t been for me. As a medical professional, if I chopped up every desmoid cancer patients in half just because I enjoy saving lives, what good would I be? It’s about improving the quality of life, not about fulfilling my needs to lengthen lifespan at whatever the cost.

Anyway, to put this to rest, I was given two options:
1. tow it somewhere
2. wait more until he’s done

I chose the latter. This time, deadline wasn’t given, and I was promised weekly updates which I’ll post here every Friday. I’m as pissed off as I could be. I gave everything I had to this project, which includes my bank accounts, stocks, my vacation times, and my patience. It’s really consuming my life in ways that are becoming detrimental for my future plans and goals.

Many would say it was my fault that I wasn’t completely aware what I was getting myself into, but I was never sincerely communicated about the magnitude of this project either. I’m excited as hell that I’m getting the best possible stuff, engineering, and expertise the universe can offer for my car, but I’m afraid all this hardship and frustration of waiting quite frankly just won’t be worth any amount of fun driving such car can offer. But what can I do at this point? I just hope it’s finished soon.

Easy send your car to the Puerto Ricans and you get it back with 700++ RWHP in In just 4 weeks with great reabilyty in the streets.
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Old 12-21-2007, 02:36 PM
  #590  
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This would be an excellent point at which to close this thread. (Something of which I am usually not a big fan.)
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Old 12-21-2007, 02:55 PM
  #591  
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Originally Posted by stickmantijuana
a long response...

First of all, I must say CRH brings up an important issue. It's the sad fact that we're pre-divided into two groups even before any arguments arise: the die-hard mazsport fans vs. the rest. I say that here because I see it everywhere on this forum. Now, all I ask for the loyal fans is to pick up your own brain from where you left it last time and to be yourselves. If you insist saying something (both via pm or post) on behalf of the entire group, please be my guest in your own local meet.

For those still reading, I’m not here to bash on Scott. What I am here to convey, however, is list facts and obvious problems I see with Mazsport: the good and the bad.

As for this project, here are the facts to get out of the way:
1. This started as a complex project with tons of ideas—for those who still remember my very first original thread, the project was about 10second car that’s street drivable, reliable, and competent on the tracks. Some ideas got tossed; some remained, and some were improved upon.
2. I enjoy driving fast cars, but I don’t have a clue about how difficult or expensive it is to build them.
3. I was originally given a fixed budget window and a time window for the project, which were quickly surpassed even before the engine got mounted.
4. I did agree to pushing the engine back without knowing what I was getting myself into. I never agreed to or got informed about anything else that would bring any more difficulty to this project (according to my limited knowledge about cars).
5. Scott put in the best money can buy into this project. It’s just the way he does things. He could’ve put some cheap-o-components and tried to make profit that way, but he did not, and for that, I’m very grateful and find myself between two hard places in trying to defend him and to burn him alive for taking this long.

About Scott, after working with him for a few years (from my int-x days), I think I’m qualified to say something about him. I personally think he should be working on million dollar restoration projects on some race cars from the previous eras. There’s one thing that I can say with utmost confidence about Scott; it’s the fact that he does not fool around with the component quality, is extremely skilled at what he does, and stands behind his product once it’s finished and is delivered to the customers. That combination alone is a tough one to beat if you’re looking for the best end product. What he doesn’t excel at, however, is managing customer relationship while the car’s in the shop.

If I had a racecar I’m preparing for a life-death race, there’s no question I’d hire Scott, give him everything I have, and chain him to a car until it’s done. But most of us do not track cars for living; most of us turbocharge our cars for the sheer experience. What Scott fails to perceive has been the fact that the experience isn’t only about driving, it’s also about the process between charging the credit card and receiving the promised product. If I must struggle through months of ignorance, broken promises, and countless Friday nights waiting pointlessly for his updates that never came, I just wouldn’t care for it, even if I were given an rx8 that can match F1 speeds in the end. No hobby is worth stressing my life over.

I guess my point is Scott’s strength is also his weakness—his need/obsession to dial the car in the way he wants it. It’s a good enough of a reason for the tremendous waits for many, but personally, it hasn’t been for me. As a medical professional, if I chopped up every desmoid cancer patients in half just because I enjoy saving lives, what good would I be? It’s about improving the quality of life, not about fulfilling my needs to lengthen lifespan at whatever the cost.

Anyway, to put this to rest, I was given two options:
1. tow it somewhere
2. wait more until he’s done

I chose the latter. This time, deadline wasn’t given, and I was promised weekly updates which I’ll post here every Friday. I’m as pissed off as I could be. I gave everything I had to this project, which includes my bank accounts, stocks, my vacation times, and my patience. It’s really consuming my life in ways that are becoming detrimental for my future plans and goals.

Many would say it was my fault that I wasn’t completely aware what I was getting myself into, but I was never sincerely communicated about the magnitude of this project either. I’m excited as hell that I’m getting the best possible stuff, engineering, and expertise the universe can offer for my car, but I’m afraid all this hardship and frustration of waiting quite frankly just won’t be worth any amount of fun driving such car can offer. But what can I do at this point? I just hope it’s finished soon.

We all do my friend. I still think it took way to much time regardless of any excuse... But you are doing the right thing. I'm sure Scott will go thru.

Last edited by angeljoelv; 12-21-2007 at 03:48 PM.
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Old 12-21-2007, 04:26 PM
  #592  
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Lessons learned all around, especially for me.
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Old 12-21-2007, 04:32 PM
  #593  
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Stick: where do you live?

If I ever go 20b, "mi caro se va a mis hermanos in Puerto Rico"
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Old 12-21-2007, 05:49 PM
  #594  
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several people have asked and i think it s about time too. so this thread is closed.

stick when you're ready with an update start a new one. thanks all
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