If I came across as harsh, that was unintentional. Detailed, highly technical posts are completely appropriate in highly technical threads.

This is true. This is a turbo rotary with 10:1 compression. You need to start thinking about your timing maps now. When I first got into tuning I found as many timing maps for all sorts of different cars with different levels of modifications, and studied them very carefully to see what was done and why.

Here's an interesting thread to check out if you want to read more about timing curves: http://forums.evolutionm.net/ecuflas...ing-curve.html

now granted that's on Evo's, but it gives the basic idea.

 

I've been accumulating timing maps from all different kinds of applications and cross-referencing them to create a sort of compendium and self-check.

It was quite startling to see how different they could be for essentially the same application.
That is why I started to look at the actual math, rather than depend on other people's experience because, I'm afraid, timing has been sort of pushed to the side by many once it is "safe" (which it often isn't, despite what the tuner/owner might think).

 

I have the math; that actual flame propagation physics are startlingly painful.

I am not complaining about the feedback - but I keep thinking we are overlooking the fact that I am still breaking the motor in - I haven't even GONE past 4000 RPMS yet, so it will be addressed in kind based on the process I have laid out. Injectors, MAF and VE tables based on cruising data, followed by trending the WOT areas and then WOT tuning, followed by idle tuning. Starting with getting the MAF right so the load calculations are good and then moving into advancing the timing and adjusting the VE map. The last time I dyno tuned timing I ended up running only about 8* of advance past 14 PSI on a MAP 13B - so I may just end up pulling almost all the timing and running a few base logs with the EGT's. But hopefully the math will give me a better baseline to start with.

That being said; If the math ends up making my map look unusable (since all the physics are for piston motors) - then I'll probably have to fall back onto the old school aprroach and grab some timing maps from the GT35 13B I dyno tuned; make adjustments for compression and load dyno tune my car once broken in.

 

When I had that engine in my car, it always seemed like it wanted to be 'fed' more down low than my first, non-ported engine.

If you have a way to pop open the secondary ports at, say, 3000 rpm, you might find some extra torque down there.

 

Definitely interested to see how this turns out, and to learn from you guys here.

 

probably a stupid question--but how does the IAT sensor fit in? Or is it even a factor?
Are you tuning for water meth injection or is it just for insurance?
Is their a "warm up" component? You know---cold start thing?
Are you changing the ssv and apv timing?
Newbie to most aspects of tuning that doesnt require a screwdriver
OD

 

The IAT is a modifier value. It adds/subtracts from the load calculation. Same goes for the CTS.
How you address it depends on where it is located.
In the OEM configuration, it is in the MAF assembly.
Some of the FI applications have a replacement installed somewhere after the turbo.
If the replacement sensor is fast enough, you an do quite a bit more with it than what is present in the OE calibration.

Kane may have a different take on it, but I just use it as insurance. No calibration adjustments at all.
Well, not exactly. I calibrate as if the ambient air temp is always about 70°F and let the W/M take care of the difference.

There is a timed open-loop that is modified by the CTS and a "minimum" target A/F for that period.
There are also idle values that are adjusted by the CTS.

Once again, Kane may have a different take on it, but I leave the SSV alone and keep the APV closed until the HP peak. I keep the VDI closed completely.

 

I don't know if Kane does this or not but I'm curious if you get any tone change with the VDI closed. Granted I think your redline is set lower (mine is 9500 being NA) but anything above 7500 rpms my engine tone totally changes from the intake. I get a VERY loud noise from the motor. I had the VDI opening much later as an experiment and nearly shat myself when I heard the awful sounds.

Any experience with a turbo car in this regard?

 

All my Intake tuning is stock ATM... but my plan is to look at the MAF values and play with them at some point - I've done a VTEC motor that way and in the end it didn't really seem worth the hassle for an FI motor (I got him 10 WHP playing with it... but it took a full day and I could have gotten better gains with a bit more boost).

 

thanks folks--appreciate the info.
Do yall seal the vdi within the intake or leave it alone?

OD

 

Leave it alone. There is no reason to seal it.

 

ok thanks again --cant wait to see this bad boy turn on. Hard to be patient I bet.
OD

 

Yeah there's no real need for VDI on a turbo setup. If you look at a lot of cars that come with factory non turbo and turbo engines, their VDI equivalent is never used on the turbo motors. The Skyline and 3000GT both had their own versions of VDI but only on non turbo engines.

 

bump

 

MM convinced me to not open the aux. ports at all . Waits for flames ...............

 

From the tuner wanna-be's or from your exhaust?

 

I can say I'm very happy with running it that way - think I'll get a 4 port for my next engine ............

 

Us tuner wanna-be's want to know what the reason is to leave the aux ports closed... ? MM

 

/\
To summarise :

more boost (a higher Pr) is required to make the same mass air flow which means the turbo is operating more efficiently (IE cooler) to produce the same whp .
+ No lean spike makes for easier tuning

Does depend on flow characteristics of your turbo as to whether this holds true but pretty much every turbo i've seen used on the Renesis would benefit in this way because they all seem to be designed to operate at higher pressures than what is ideal for the Renesis.

 

This is interesting news.... I may play with it later on.

As for me - I JUST broke 500 miles so now we can start tuning WOT and boost.... it is pig rich right now. I updated my timing for safety and I'll post my final MAF's after I decide to go to Fuel VE% for the rest.

More info to follow.

 

How rich is "pig-rich"?

 

10.2 at 5 psi.

 

You might be surprised at how not pig-rich that is.

 

The bigger problem is I can feel it....it stumbles ever so slightly and I know that I'm pegging both my gauges so to go past 5 PSI is pointless.

I want 11.2; I'll take 10.8 - as long as I'm not stumbling.... but 10.2 (which may very well be 8.2 as that is really close to my gauge limits)... is too rich.

 

you guys and your "pig rich" talk...im soo lost