Reactionary

Hmmm, maybe I chose the wrong name. Or maybe it was the right name. Seems like everyone states their opinions here. That's all I'm doing, and I'm trying to be careful how I state my words too, unlike some of the people. This thread is more about the way people think than an attack on Racing Beat. It's too bad that the question came up because of the existing context that involves Racing Beat, which is deep in the hearts of many people. This is reminding me of the Canzoomer piggyback ECU scene. I even put great thought into the thread title by putting it in question form but now I'm thinking I should have called it "Why is Racing Beat so respected?".

The other thread I started is about parallelogram-across-two-planes taillights and is unrelated to Racing Beat or directly going after whatever company. I can't believe you would try to make any kind of connection based on that thread, which is totally innocuous.

Other than that, I've commented on the Ford F-150 truck, which a Ford insider of all people brought up in a Honda Ridgeline thread. And if you notice, I made my points with disinterest and stayed clear of getting personal, but that didn't stop other people from getting personal. I'm not looking for trouble. I'm just trying to make solid points that require some people, including me, to rethink a little.

You are actually my favorite mod here because you're nice and laid-back at the same time. Please, don't let yourself fall into the "group think" phenomenon that precipitates riot behavior. I understand what Racing Beat means to so many people but please don't let your emotion cause you to think something exists that doesn't.

Gomez

No use brown nosing now, buddy. We know there's an agenda here....

Reactionary

Oh wow, I was kissing his ***, wasn't I? Didn't realize it until Gomez helped me rethink. Ahhh....see my point?

canaryrx8

iTrader: (3)

simple solution=buy from someone else

So i guess from this thread I can assume Carroll Shelby is all hype too? I mean honestly dude, if nothing else just take a loot at the frickin' history of the place, where was Greddy,HKs,etc.. back in '71? were they tuning rotaries? were they even born yet? If your intent was to push a bunch of forum members buttons, congrats as you surely succeeded. If you were really looking for info etc. on them all you have to do is ask them, why address the forum with all this mess? why didn't you just send them a bunch of questions? It's not like they're going to lie to you or ignore you, people who are in bidness for over 30 years didn't get there by lying to people.

murix

You sound bored. You need a job that takes up too much of your time to think about this stuff.

Reactionary

Well honestly I think the real question is why would you assume/interpret this thread and my posts in the way you have.

The Borla and GReddy exhausts have been criticized extensively without any of this kind of negative reaction. The Canzoomer thing got to the point where he doesn't even post here anymore (although he continues to in the Yahoo group, I've noticed) and nobody got too riled by that (although Canzoomer probably did).

What's with all the vested interest? At least be consistent.

murix

You write like one of those people who just talk a lot because you like the sound of your own voice.

The first two lines you posted were this : "Recently, it occurred to me that I wasn't sure anymore about all the hype over Racing Beat products. I don't know much about engineering things and I've never modded a car that I owned, but I started asking myself what exactly has Racing Beat developed over the years?"

I stopped at that point and realised anything that was going to follow was just general banter in attempts to have a long drawn out conversation on a message board which is ok because, well, it is a message board for talking.

I only hope everyone else appreciates this as well. If you really cared of course you would have done some general research and learned a bit about some basic mechanical engineering and tried working on your own car right?

It is sort of like a 5 year old asking me to explain how they were born. I could easily give a full technical explanation, but they really would not fully get it would they? It makes for good conversation though.

Carry on.

zoom44

rEALLY? SO YOU'VE TALKED TO MAURICE HAVE YOU?(oops caps). the canzoomer "thing" as you call it was nearly eliminated by the time the product came out and after he got enough units built and some tweaks done to the early units i would say completely gone. but if you read other vendors threads who promise a product and then dont deliver or keep changing their time tables it is no different than what canzoomer had to go thru early on. in the case of Racing beat the only time i can think of that they have set a date and missed it was on the intake and they told everyone why-unlike some vendors(we have a turbo and its going to make 350 hp to the wheels!!) who simply disappear. again thats another reason why people support and endorse racing beat- honesty with their clientele and reliability. doing so for over 30 years- that's hard to beat.

Tony Orlando

"What exactly has Racing Beat developed over the years?"

Multiple top speed records in Rotaries.

A full line of street, competition and racing parts for all Mazda Rotary cars, not to mention Miatas.

A reputation among those "in-the-know" as a source for true information without marketing BS.

The suspension and exhaust for the Mazdaspeed Protege.

And that's the tip of the iceberg.

Racing Beat always has and always will be my (and many others') source for Mazda performance parts, because they're the best.

Murix is right, carry on......

Reactionary

Sorry murix but I completely disagree with you. There's much substance to what I have said actually, even considering Jim Langer's very level-headed post, which I really do appreciate. I've done some research including going over the Racing Beat website time and time again over the past year.

Let me just give you one example. The fact that Racing Beat put out that record breaking car back in the 70's is exactly that. While one can and has used that fact as evidence that Racing Beat has done some pretty big and wild projects, which is evidence of their capability; it also indicates a split from the past to the present. Those projects did not progress and evolve with continuity over time. Who knows but taking into account some of the posts like Rotarygod's and Jim Langer's, perhaps the early days of the 70's and 80's excitement, adrenaline, and testosterone gave way to a more sensible and solvent business growth plan in the 90's, which necessitated a transitional period followed by the recent spurt in activity as physical and mental logistics fell into place coinciding with the introduction of the RX8. It may just be that 10 years from now when things are really kicking, we'll look back and see the fuller picture and be convinced that there was never any doubt afterall about Racing Beat's superiority. But we're here today and not 10 years later, and I am merely asking some reasonable and legitimate questions.

Jim Langer alluded to such a business plan, that the Mazda aftermarket is not a huge market. Someone instructed me that Racing Beat is not exactly like Saleen and AMG; I already know that but there are still similarities. Regardless, the market for suped up Mustangs and Mercedes is much bigger and that makes sense in comparison with Racing Beat's smaller size; fewer, more modest projects; and slower growth.

Given what Rotarygod and Jim Langer explained, I'm more convinced now that Racing Beat has virtually the ultimate in capabilities but has to do them within a more conservative business plan.

Gomez

Righto, lets start with the first sentence above. In light of your statement that you've never modded a car, why do you care what people think about Racing Beat? You have no experience with their products and you don't seem to be the type of person who's in the market for any of their gear. Why would you try to make people rethink their opinion on Racing Beat unless you had a barrow to push? You said you want people to rethink a little.....

With regards to your second statement above, if you understand what Racing Beat means to so many people, why do you question it?

And why did you go over Racing Beat's website time and time again during the past year??? Can't you see why we are questioning you and your motives?

Gomez.

Reactionary

Again, why the emotion? Why the vested interest?

I would have to disagree with you when you say Racing Beat has a full line for rotary cars and the miata. They don't seem to. A few others mentioned this also.

In an earlier post, I listed items for the RX8 one by one, and here I would ask you to do the same. Some member in this forum as well as Paul Yaw on his website said springs should be done with matching shocks. Even though Racing Beat will offer a more aggressive setup in the future with Koni shocks (even right here one could ask why the delay when many companies have come out with their setups and/or coilovers), they also currently offer springs without shocks. I asked in the earlier post if that was advisable or a compromise.

I also essentially asked why is the Racing Beat exhaust about the only one that weighs more than the stock exhaust. One person mentioned super high quality welds, which is definitely important. Here I ask, do the other brand exhausts not have super high quality welds? I'll also ask here whether a trade-off is totally understandable or a somewhat questionable business decision (independent of performance/quality decisions) that totally justifies my asking about it now. Others showed surprise about the weight and wondered what it means in other threads. A business that makes such a trade-off would/should anticipate these questions (and answer them right up front), which are reasonable, or avoid these questions altogether by doing you know what.

Finally, I brought up the design of the flywheel. I don't know anything about flywheels, so I merely cited other people in this forum who have indicated that the Racing Beat flywheel may be the most questionable in design out of the handful of flywheels currently in the market.

Back to what murix had said (jokinglyl, I know), do I need to install my own mods in order to research them the best I can and ask questions? So am I not allowed to research up on and ask questions about heart surgery, leukemia treatments, getting my pets spayed/neutered, or buying a washing machine or computer unless I can do it or build it myself?

sohcpunk

You guys need to lighten up. Racing Beat isnt the best company in the world. I think some people on this board gets offended because they always defend what they buy. I'm sure if I bought a Racing Beat product I would defend Racing Beat.

If you really think about it. Racing Beat hasn't really done anything ground breaking or special recently. Just mild modifications, springs, flywheel, exhaust. Now that seems pretty general in the world of car modications. Their springs only increase at a 20% spring rate and drop it 1/2 inch?! They make products that are so suttle that sometimes I question if it is worth purchasing. Now if you are a middle age man at his mid-life crisis buying the Rx-8 for that reason. Then I suggest you go towards the Racing Beat path.

Reactionary

Don't see the connection at all. There isn't one. Sorry Gomez, nothing against you, but that's not sound thinking. I believe others here can see it...if they dare post something that backs me up.

But really, there's not much for me to respond to here because the logic isn't there. I'm not hating on you either.

And this is independent of the fact that I am still thinking about getting the Racing Beat exhaust, springs + sway bars, and intake. And possibly more in the future as they come out.

I think the more interesting question is, given that there's fairly clearly no logical connection in your post: What is driving you to try so hard to look for something that isn't there?

AvatarQAZ

This answers the question to your thread. Is racing beat more hype? NO. Honesty naturally negates hype. While I can not give you a guarantee of 100% substance, you will at least KNOW what you are buying before you buy. And more importantly (as many people who bought exhausts expecting 20 hp gains) is the fact that they tell the consumer what exactly they are selling. Therefore, they have mitigated their <100% substance to ~100% (no one is perfect).

In my mind, they are the gold star company in terms of actually dealing with their customers on an even plane. They dont feed you any bullshit and let you know EXACTLY what they are doing. They are certainly a company that has the greater good of the consumer in mind (aside from being profitable... of course. They ARE a business).

But how are they successful? How have they stayed around so long if they are hype? How have they done what they have done without any substance?

Read above for your answers. I hope this is black and white for everyone. I absolutely loathe threads that start off as being generally inquisitive... followed by opinionated, and are then capped off by being degenerated.

Reactionary

Hey Zoom44,

Is it possible to get this thread renamed: "What are the reasons that Racing Beat is so respected?"

If you can do it, please make sure you use the phrase "What are the reasons..." and NOT "Why is Racing Beat...". Trust me, that tiny difference will be HUGE!

I think the change in thread title would put many people at ease, including poor ol' Racing Beat. I can see why the title can be alarming to any vendor.

Gomez

Man, you are one weird cat. You are asking others to question RB's products and the way they think about the company, then you say you're looking at buying nearly everything in their catalog.

Gomez.

Reactionary

Oh my God! Lordy lordy lordy. Again, there is not a logical connection in your post.

You're calling me a weird cat? Look Gomez, maybe you just need to take a time out, maybe catch up on some sleep. I don't know. Come back rested and reread the whole fricking thread!!! I'm not that weird, at least not in this thread. I'm certain you'll agree later. The fact that I'm seriously thinking about several of Racing Beat's products is not contradictory at all to the questions I've asked.

murix

Again, you come across as intelligent, as would a young boy still growing up to compare to my analogy (not saying you are a 5 year old by any means). The point I am making is your lack of experience is coming across quite loudly.

You seem to have perceptions without substance. I see this all the time. When I lived in London I used to be chastised for being American and how all Americans are war mongers. They read it in the paper. They saw it on the news. They spoke with other friends who concurred. If enough people agreed then it must be true. These are surely valid sources on how Americans work. Visiting America and seeing the people, getting the EXPERIENCE, was surely out of the question and not particular useful. I never really opened my mouth as it was good for a laugh.

Notice I have made 0 comments about Racing Beat. They can explain themselves much better than I. I am simply making a point about how your demeanour is presented.

Cheers

Reactionary

That is why my perceptions (not all of which originate from me, meaning I cite other people's perceptions many times) are in the form of questions.

You mention you didn't open your mouth then but yet you open your mouth here. Could it be because of the difference in the "numbers situation"? You mention you were outnumbered in London. Could it be that I'm outnumbered here? I definitely agree with you, especially in my situation here, that isolated consensus doesn't equate to validity. World history knows it happens as "group think" has led to the Holocaust and other atrocities.

Murix, please don't make this a "mano a mano" thing, as I strongly suspect you're making it a personal battle of wits/intelligence/wisdom rather than staying focused only on what I have said.

I would argue that a young but intelligent kid without the broad perspective on the world that only a varied, extensive book education (formal or informal) combined with real-world experience could not perceive what I have presented here in the careful, precise, and consistent language that I have presented it only to be misunderstood. Nothing language can do about that, no matter how careful you try to be. Realizing the nature of bias can although it is not guaranteed.

Gomez

THE PROBLEM IS THAT YOU ARE CONTRADICTORY. You say your "perceptions" are in the form of questions. Re-read your first post. You are critical of Racing Beat. You "question" their Japanese exhaust "expert" and generally jump on the company from a great height. That's what I'm trying to get through to you. Up until now, your posts have come across as being critical of the company for their slow R&D, their heavy exhaust, their questionable flywheel etc. Then you say you are in the market for a bunch of their stuff. That's quite confusing.

It's your early post criticism that prompted my first post asking if you had an agenda.

I accept from your recent posts that you probably don't have one. Try and understand that it is the wording of your early posts that has prompted the debate. That and the thread title.....which you have now changed.

Gomez.

Reactionary

Ok, I got you. You're right and I'm not being sarcastic. It's just that I can't write 20 consecutive questions, you know? There is also description, which is in the form of statments. For example, I describe the Japanese cofounder and exhaust man sort of as he is described on the Racing Beat website. The statement on the website is like he's the Iron Chef. And I am not criticizing the wording on their website either (although it seems no one here who has criticized me has criticized their wording). It is totally ethical to show excitement about your product. The wording is very extremely positive and that's fine. At the same time, others have reported that the Borla and B&B are deeper and richer (not just deeper), whatever that means. So my point there was really not about Racing Beat's exhaust guy but rather what is the true nature of consumers', including the people in this forum, opinions on the Racing Beat exhaust. I was trying to ask: Do people really know for sure that the exhaust has superior construction and was designed by a superior mind for exhausts who used considerations that other companies weren't capable of? And that's the truth. No backpedaling or fudging after-the-fact on what I previously wrote. No contradiction.

I should have been even more careful with my language. But again, what's with the vested interest and emotion? That's really the question.

Gomez

The only emotion I think I portrayed was frustration...! My vested interest question was posed in light of your having just joined the forum and taken what I thought was a shot at Racing Beat. We've seen fly-by-nighters before who've come in, fired a few salvos and shot through. At first glance it could appear that you were trying to discredit the company for some reason.

If you are asking what my vested interest is in regards to Racing Beat, I admit to having none. I don't own any product produced by them. I have however spent a while on their site, followed threads regarding their products, read of their long history in support of the rotary, and heard anecdotal evidence from those in Australia who have their sway bars. I'd also read Jim's posts on this forum, his professionalism and sincerity were self evident. Your post was the first I'd seen of anyone questioning their quality and commitment, and I've been here a while.

All the best,
Gomez.

rotarygod

I would have thought that after 7 pages of responses that it should be clear right now how and why everyone feels the way they do about Racing Beat whether it be good or not. Changing the question about something they do isn't going to change the way people feel about them. This thread was answered long ago and should have run out of gas at the same time.

Reactionary

Thanks Gomez for the response. I didn't see anybody question Racing Beat either and the questions existed...for me. That's the whole point here. The questions are legit. So I asked them. Just need to get the questions answered. of course you guys have no obligation to do that. The questions about significant history, sizable projects, capability, honesty, and customer service have been answered and in these categories Racing Beat clearly ranks as unusually excellent or pretty damn good compared to many other companies.

But breaking down each of Racing Beat's current offerings for the RX8 and evaluating them carefully aspect-by-aspect has not been done yet, at least not in depth. Again, of course, you folks have no obligation to do that. But those questions exist. That's all I'm saying.

Finally, let me just give a metaphor that is way more extreme than this thread. In the General Auto forum, there are countless threads on other cars, like the G35, 350z, Mustang, Eclipse, etc. They have said all kinds of things about the G35 and new Eclipse and hardly anyone takes those personally, even though the comments can be extremely severe and brutally opinionated. Most times discussion eventually gets personal, with people calling each other dummies, but it's on a personal level that doesn't consider the car's "feelings" directly. Generally, there are isolated individuals who own a particular car or work for the carmaker who sometimes aggressively defend a car. But the arguments never involve (1) bunches of people banding together in order (2) to save the honor of a particular car...except when someone attacked the RX8 of course, which is kind of like this thing with Racing Beat.

When I started this thread, I didn't mean for it to turn into the world according to garp. This thread wasn't supposed to turn Racing Beat into a feminist political manifesto. And I wasn't supposed to represent "all men."