Reactionary

Recently, it occurred to me that I wasn't sure anymore about all the hype over Racing Beat products. I don't know much about engineering things and I've never modded a car that I owned, but I started asking myself what exactly has Racing Beat developed over the years? Exhausts for the Miata? Where are all the really big engineering projects over the years? Where are the forced induction packages? For the RX8, they offer a mild spring and shock upgrade. A flywheel that appears to be relatively conservative. An exhaust by the cofounder, some Japanese exhaust "expert," yet the sound seems not quite as rich as the Borla or the B&B. Yeah sure, a ton of you here have jumped on the bandwagon with regard to the Racing Beat exhaust, but no one has provided strong evidence that it is a superior design or sound. I know there's not that much room to distance oneself on the exhaust, sure, but Racing Beat's exhaust still appears to be a conservative design that may be the only one out there that weighs as much as or a little more than the stock exhaust! There's an intake project that seems promising. But if an intake is the baddest thing your company has, that's not too impressive, is it? They can't even get the ECU project done. It just seems Racing Beat doesn't have very many products and never did, not just in regard to the RX8 but also the Miata.

Clearly, Racing Beat is about maximizing profits through mild products that most consumers are in demand for and can afford. Affordability necessitates cuts in costs from all over. Racing Beat has a reputation for taking their time. It is possible that a bandwagon exists that assumes taking their time means more R & D and superior products in the end. And it is possible that Racing Beat may be taking advantage of such a bandwagon reputation that may not be accurate. Racing Beat has more money for more equipment. But where are the really impressive engineering accomplishments resulting from this equipment? I haven't seen it and I find this somewhat troubling and amusing.

Racing Beat's success, survivability, and reputation may actually be more like that of a politician's: successfully making connections with Mazda and other important parties.

I know Rotary God loves Racing Beat. Ok great, and I'll bet a lot of the people here trust Racing Beat because Rotary God trusts them. But how good is Racing Beat really compared to the other rotary tuner companies out there, including the Japanese companies. One guy in here (I forgot who) has mentioned Paul Yaw, the talk of which faded like the ghost of an Olympic sprinter. Certainly, Yaw doesn't command the popular attention of Racing Beat, but I still wonder how Yaw compares to Racing Beat. And how do all those Japanese companies compare to Racing Beat? Minus all the hype, who really is superior? Who has the superior capabilities?

Magic8

You realize this isn't a zero-sum game. There can be multiple shops that are superior. Actually as a consumer you want multiple shops that can deliver quality parts.

Engineering = compromises. In general as performance increase, cost increase and reliability decrease. The engineers that are worth a dime are the one that can balance all the requirements and still come out with a good product. In my opinion Racing Beat has demonstrated that ability quite well. Besides the are fulfilling a niche quite well. Personally I am not about *****-out performance. I want to improve my car but not to the point of destroying reliability.

Another point, you ever thought that maybe Mazda already did a pretty good job designing the RX-8? The "conservatism" exhibited by RB is a result of Mazda aggressiveness with their design.

SilverBullitt

Racing Beat Rules! :d

Broke_Apex_Seal

I agree. Racing Beat is BEAT. There exhaust are very nice but very heavy actually 4-5 lbs over stock I think. They have done some stuff with 3 rotors which is cool but not a turbo kit or anything. all there products are Rikki products IE: Honda civic type **** if you ask me.

slavearm

Well,

I don't know about everything they do being mild. I woudl challenge you to find a bigger sway bar for the 8....

Anyways, they are mild not wild. They have a reputation for reliability not huge numbers. If you want wild, you probably know where to look. Think HKS etc... Anyways, RB is just a conservative company, and people that love their cars might like the idea that their stuff is not going to be reducing the lifestan of their car (or in suspentions' case their kidneys).

You know exactly what you get from racing beat. No hype. Hype is saying you are going to get 10hp from an exhaust, another 8 from headers, 20 if you go for a straight pipe, 8hp from pullies (hahaha this one is my favorite). Now that crap is hype. RB is conservative, but by the same token, they are no BS. They tell you exactly what you can excpect to get. Crap they even invite you to thier facility and let you watch their engine dyno to prove they aren't full of sh*t.

Anyways, RB is loved because they are a no BS company. Not because they make the most EXTREME parts, or the highest hp parts, or the stiffest suspention. Truth in advertising, and backing up their parts with realistic expectations... that's why RB kicks @ss.

Oops I almost forgot, since they do a crap load of RnD for Mazda, they have probably blown up more engines testing the failure points on the 13B-MSP than anyone else. That is credibility I doubt anyone else can claim.

Slavearm

Red Devil

For a conservative, road going car I think Racing Beat is very good. If you're after more radical modifications, than I would say places like Rotary Performance and Pettit are much better applications. In my case, I still waffle about how much I want to put into the car, so I haven't decided whether I'll turn to Racing Beat or not.

Rotarygod's opinion may be a swaying factor for some members that are new to the rotary community. And I think that his information is constructively helpful. But many of us have an established history with rotaries and have formed such opinions about Racing Beat through experience, not word of mouth.

DreRX8

Racing Beat is for the more 'mature/conservative' for those that don't want to pull up to the business meeting shooting flames from an open rotary exhaust. Their demographic is for those that want a nice blend of engineered performance/aesthetics. Their are other tuners that cater to the extremist out there. I personally don't want an exhaust system that sets off car alarms.

RX8-TX

An interesting topic to start my morning. What could I add? I've never purchased anything from Racing Beat, however, I've asked questions several times and were answered by Jim Langer...very responsive fella'

I've also followed the development of certain items online (sure, not much that can be done there) and hold a cerain interest, for example, in their REV8 cat-back. Why? exactly for the points made on the first post: it is a conservative replacement for the OEM unit.

From the sound & video clips I was able to gather, I concluded that it is pretty much what I would look for in a OEM replacement. It is not obnoxiously loud, it is not much heavier than stock (according to them) and on pictures (at least) seems to be a quality piece. I've had the chance to see other Racing Beat cat-backs on Miatas & RX-7s and they gave me the same impression.

On the fact that they may not develop tons of "Racing Beat" branded equipment: why reinvent the wheel? If there are companies out there that make good replacement parts, that are durable, reliable and effective, what is the point in manufacturing one more? Instead, I take the fact that RB carries them as an edorsement of the item's quality.

A business like RB has to make a profit to subsist. They do so by carrying and selling a number of items manufactured by them and others. I wonder if they have any involvement in motorsports racing development, and R&D for OEMs?

On top of that, at least on paper (or html), their standards are made public. I haven't seen them or heard of them putting other manufacturer's down for their own convenience. Instead, they managed to have a pretty helpful online site, and seem to gather a crowd anytime SevenStock takes place in CA. Why is that? I'd like to think it is because there are very interesting things to take a look at, and the folks working there know what they are doing.

Wow, but take a look at all I wrote...and that without even ever buying from them.

dmp

How many shops live and die by what they 'promise' they are going to make? There are a couple turbo places on this forum who have been whooping RX8 owners into a frenzy over their 'planned gains' for their turbo systems.

If RacingBeat made a turbo system for the RX8, they'd start out saying: "We're developing a turbo system, we'll tune it to get as much power as we feel is safe."

Compare that to the shops you see post in forums, such as these who suggest: "We're tuning this bad boy for THREE HUNDRED FIFTY HP at the CRANK!!!"



See the difference? Racing Beat is honest and up-front about what their products do. That can't be said for the majority of shops I know.


AND....I can't find a SINGLE Miata that sounds better than mine, with a full Racing Beat system.

:D

robertdot

Product Testing is another major reason RB stands out in my mind (in addition to their honesty): http://www.racingbeat.com/testprocedures.htm I don't know if this even mentions their engine dyno that they are using on the '8.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Major Engineering Projects" but if you scroll to the bottom of this page, you'll see quite a few major engineering projects on RX's: http://www.racingbeat.com/profile/Profile.htm

Again, I don't know what you mean by hype. There is no hype at RB. They don't hype up their claims. They don't get partially naked women hanging all over their cars to sell their products. They don't bow down to the ricer movement. They are a classy operation that makes real claims and quality products. Like most people have said, they are geared more towards a mature audience.

Not to mention, as a CA vendor, they feel the need to stay emissions friendly... CA emissions laws are VERY strict, and they want to meet those standards with their for-street-use mods. It's alot easier to get big gains when you don't care about emissions. For instance, I wouldn't expect to pass a smog test w/ a Greddy turbo from what I've heard, and I don't expect Greddy to make an emissions legal turbo until demand for one is much higher. But if RB ever has a FI kit for street use, every kit off the line will more than likely pass testing.

What you probably are experiencing is not hype, but excitement from forum users about a company who doesn't bullshit the public with false claims and gimmicks.

Magic8

Yes they have involvement in motorsports, at least as indicated on their site. Check out their RX-7 stuff. They were also invovled in the development of the Mazdaspeed Protege. RB inolvement in Mazdaspeed Protege

Not many aftermarket companies can do that.


$600 is already in the bank ready for the RB suspension kit. Spring can't come soon enough for me.

Gord96BRG

It's also probably the only one out there that will last as long as the stock exhaust! Quality construction for a durable product will result in a heavier product - thicker wall tubing, heavier mufflers, stronger brackets, etc.

As others have pointed out - Racing Beat actually engineers their products, they don't just copy a design from someone else for some other car and make it fit, that's it. I'm very impressed with the pieces I've seen from Racing Beat for both the Miata and RX-8 - generally top quality workmanship and materials, and no BS claims.

Regards,
Gordon

zoom44

First off i trust Racing Beat. why? because ive seen their facility and talked to Jim Langer and Jim Mederer. They are very straight forward about what they do and why. You have a lot of questions and i would suggest that you actually write to Jim Langer and ask them. They will be very happy to.
You say there has been nothing done with the ecu project. thats absolutely wrong. They spent months finding out everything this ecu does and now have the ability to WRITE MAPS TO THE ECU. what other company can do that now? Why arent they selling this ability yet? because they are using this ability to tune for their FI project- another thing you say they dont have. They dont RUSH anything. when they have the FI with tuning done to their standards THEN it will be out for sale. their standards are high. id rather have something built to their standards and it take awhile to come out rather then something from a company who just wants to be first to market(think Typhoon intake).

What have they done in the past? The afore mentioned Mazdaspeed Protoge for one. Tons of good products for RX-7s and Miatas over the years. How about those suspension pieces for the 8? they are damn fine work and just exactly what many people want for their 8 without going overboard. How about land speed records? those impress you?https://www.racingbeat.com/PDF/RBHistory.pdf

ill have more later i need to get to work

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

That's me third from the left standing with the black strap on my shoulder at the Sevenstock7 event. These guys are truely the most trusted name in Rotary tuners. I spent several months analyzing catback's for my 8, and settled with RB. Check out the welds on this setup - sheer joy to look at. I work in a manufacturing facility that has numerous welders, they all commented on the quality of the system. My buck was well spent.

XeRo

isn't Mederer the one that broke 200mph in his RX-7 and actually flipped it in the desert due to insufficient downforce on the front end...that was a wild video...

bureau13

I was going to jump all over the "too much hype" comment, but everyone pretty much beat me to it. If there's any hype, its coming from their loyal customer base, and you don't get such a base putting out crap. You certainly can't accuse THEM of hype...that would be more appropriate to the companies making obviously outrageous horsepower claims from rushed-to-market products.

The other thing I found amusing about the original post...you want someone to "prove" that the RB exhaust sounds better? HTF can anyone do that? Sound is completely subjective, if you like the RB sound buy the exhaust. If you don't, don't! I did, and I did. It really is that simple.

czr

iTrader: (3)

Got a good visual on that one. lol.




Great points!

Mikelikes2drive

yes that was mederer with the rx7. They have done awesome things with the rx7 and theyre still releasing things for it. They have only yet started for the rx8. There is a reason why companies like koni, and Mazdaspeed go to Racingbeat to test out their products. They are well respected throughout the rotary community

Spin9k

I have to say many of the original poster's thoughts have crossed my mind...more than once. I like Racing Beat, don't own their product, maybe it's their name, maybe it's their (appearance of) value for money of what they do offer. They also do offer a kind of warm and fuzzy feeling being around and contributing for so long in the Mazda community.

Still, after visiting their site for over 2+ yrs now watching their 'development' of RX-8 products, I don't think it is unreasonable to ask and review just what is it that they (or anyone else for that matter) have engineered for our car to enhance it from baseline stock.

The fact that really, "not much" is out there in the market (until recently FI) beyond generic type products. that is; springs, coilovers, sway bars, some instakes and exhausts is both troubling and satisfing. Troubling in that it is frustrating not to have truly unique ways to enhance our car over stock, satisfing in that Mazda did such a good job, most are having a hard time figuring out how to "out do" their original engineering.

I guess I would say that I have just about given up on RB coming up with any surprises... but then they bring out lightened rotors, I mean is there a big market for that? It certainly is an odd, if not unique product rollout. Is something to complement it coming next? Where is the continuity... where are their adjustable shocks, or coilovers, or ECU upgrade? I just don't see it that there is any plan, rhime or reason.. at least yet that I see. Sigh...

cgrx

nice stage

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

So I guess I should just give up on the titanium PPF because I don't have a huge catalog or history at this time? I chose the PPF because I didn't see anyone else making them out of Ti and I have a connection in the exotic metals biz. Do ya think RB did the rotors because nobody else has them?

CRH

BTW, the first prototype of the PPF has been test fit on the car. It fits perfectly and requires only one hand to align it and fasten the nuts in place.

cretinx

Racing Beat makes products that won't ruin or upset your car. They're mild for a reason. They make great products for a daily-driven weekend track-warrior.

TheDosDog

I have quite a few RB products on my 8 and and have had others on previous vehicles. Thier quality seems to surpass OEM in all areas. Racing Beat is not a "tuner" shop. They are the fiirst to tell you that if you are looking for that type performance shop they are not it. However if you are in the market for well engineered thoroughly tested products that provide modest performance gains that will maintain reliability they are hard to beat.

Ajax

Just 1: Astra Racing. They won't be selling the technology to do it though.

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

Thoroughly tested and engineered. The center of balance was the toughest part