RX8 hand held Flash tuner?
12-31-2005, 06:27 PM
#26
Bummed, but bring on OU!
Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
Actually, no it doesn't. It has timings for how long a particular load has been held.
They are the same MAPs with a 4th axis for time.
They are the same MAPs with a 4th axis for time.
hmm, when the hell did that change? I distinctly remember reading on this forum about different maps for different gears. Ganted it was a while ago.
Edit: like this: https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...=ecu+maps+gear
Last edited by therm8; 12-31-2005 at 06:30 PM.
12-31-2005, 08:14 PM
#27
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like mention before, as long as you can have complete control of the maps and be able to change injector size, along with great prcing, it will be great. I would like to have this for F/I. I hope he is reading this thread and not filling us with hope but I haven't seen him repond yet to any of our question.
12-31-2005, 08:47 PM
#28
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Hmm. variable MAF voltage? Maybe the MAF and ECu are doing something that you don't expect it to. What I am eluding to is that Ford has theirs work as MAF/MAP... both functions are built-in to their system and the values are cross-checked. Each system... particularly the knock system (not just sensor, it has it's own processor!) will send debugging signals back and forth to ensure that the system is working 100% correctly.
In terms of maps... multiple maps seems less likely thinking about what Jeff said and what Kenne Bell said Ford did. The system is tuned for Premium in the Mustang GT, but sold as a regular unleaded car. Handling the timing adjustments needed is done "on-the-fly" by the ECU using the advanced knock sensing, MAF/MAP and other systems. It is reasonable to think that Mazda tried out some of these same systems/features in the RX-8 and Mazda6 which Ford then later applied to the Mustang.
In terms of maps... multiple maps seems less likely thinking about what Jeff said and what Kenne Bell said Ford did. The system is tuned for Premium in the Mustang GT, but sold as a regular unleaded car. Handling the timing adjustments needed is done "on-the-fly" by the ECU using the advanced knock sensing, MAF/MAP and other systems. It is reasonable to think that Mazda tried out some of these same systems/features in the RX-8 and Mazda6 which Ford then later applied to the Mustang.
01-01-2006, 01:52 AM
#29
Originally Posted by therm8
hmm, when the hell did that change? I distinctly remember reading on this forum about different maps for different gears. Ganted it was a while ago.
Edit: like this: https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...=ecu+maps+gear
Edit: like this: https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...=ecu+maps+gear
He also had an idea about a "cruise-control" state that I couldn't reproduce either.
The RX-8 PCM has no way to know what gear you are in directly - it would have to deduce it from vehicle speed vs. RPM, so why bother?
If you know vehicle speed and RPM, just do whatever fuddling around you want from there without adding an additional translation.
What actually happens is there is one set of fuel and timing maps for normal operation (warmed up and beyond 5 to 7 drive cycles) that are tweaked by the LTFT & STFT and knock profile. Then, the added condition of continuous cruise (mild load and more than 5 seconds above 3700 RPM), the A/F target in closed-loop goes to 12:1 or so. This is the CAT-save strategy. The actual A/F target changes aparently based on TEMP, BARO and AIRTEMP inputs and varies between 11:1 and 13.5:1. Once you get above 50% load and/or 5200 RPM or so, it goes into open-loop and other things start to happen.
01-01-2006, 06:14 AM
#30
Air + Fuel + Spark = Boom
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If you really can come up with a reflasher where i would have control of fuel map, ignition timing, and some other items.. I would be glad to pay in the 1000's for it....!
01-01-2006, 08:03 AM
#32
Bummed, but bring on OU!
Originally Posted by MazdaManiac
Its always been that way. The gear-controlled mapping was an idea that Maurice (CanZoomer) put foward that I never particularly felt comfortable with.
He also had an idea about a "cruise-control" state that I couldn't reproduce either.
The RX-8 PCM has no way to know what gear you are in directly - it would have to deduce it from vehicle speed vs. RPM, so why bother?
If you know vehicle speed and RPM, just do whatever fuddling around you want from there without adding an additional translation.
What actually happens is there is one set of fuel and timing maps for normal operation (warmed up and beyond 5 to 7 drive cycles) that are tweaked by the LTFT & STFT and knock profile. Then, the added condition of continuous cruise (mild load and more than 5 seconds above 3700 RPM), the A/F target in closed-loop goes to 12:1 or so. This is the CAT-save strategy. The actual A/F target changes aparently based on TEMP, BARO and AIRTEMP inputs and varies between 11:1 and 13.5:1. Once you get above 50% load and/or 5200 RPM or so, it goes into open-loop and other things start to happen.
He also had an idea about a "cruise-control" state that I couldn't reproduce either.
The RX-8 PCM has no way to know what gear you are in directly - it would have to deduce it from vehicle speed vs. RPM, so why bother?
If you know vehicle speed and RPM, just do whatever fuddling around you want from there without adding an additional translation.
What actually happens is there is one set of fuel and timing maps for normal operation (warmed up and beyond 5 to 7 drive cycles) that are tweaked by the LTFT & STFT and knock profile. Then, the added condition of continuous cruise (mild load and more than 5 seconds above 3700 RPM), the A/F target in closed-loop goes to 12:1 or so. This is the CAT-save strategy. The actual A/F target changes aparently based on TEMP, BARO and AIRTEMP inputs and varies between 11:1 and 13.5:1. Once you get above 50% load and/or 5200 RPM or so, it goes into open-loop and other things start to happen.
Here's more:
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...=ecu+maps+gear
I'm not completely doubting what you're saying. But RB also talked of this gear based mapping, with their test bench. In that thread ^ the throttle position required for certain load conditions is gear based, as determined from a Scanalyzer. Just because the gear is determined from speed and rpm, doesn't mean the ecu doesn't use it. I'm just thinking there's more going on.
01-01-2006, 09:02 AM
#33
Momentum Keeps Me Going
Going back to the original poster's question about interest in a ECU remap tool - here's another vote 'heul yea' please do it 
and have it ready in Feb. That'll give some down-time tuning period before track season re-starts.
IMHO What you're offering to us rotary junkies is akin to announcing to the medical community you will have the cure for the common cold available shortly!
To be able to have visibility into & systemic tuning relief for the ECU rather than trying to spoof or lobotomize the ECU signal paths would turn this midnight soup tuning fog into a mere morning haze discovery process. Not simple or easy, but potentially doable with the community effort.
So please do it and not a moment to soon
At least from me, your money is waiting on the table.
and have it ready in Feb. That'll give some down-time tuning period before track season re-starts.IMHO What you're offering to us rotary junkies is akin to announcing to the medical community you will have the cure for the common cold available shortly!
To be able to have visibility into & systemic tuning relief for the ECU rather than trying to spoof or lobotomize the ECU signal paths would turn this midnight soup tuning fog into a mere morning haze discovery process. Not simple or easy, but potentially doable with the community effort.
So please do it and not a moment to soon
At least from me, your money is waiting on the table.
01-01-2006, 10:43 AM
#34
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Wow, there is some interest. Sorry for taking so long to respond to some of the questions and concerns. I was only in the office a short time yesterday, then I was off getting ready to celebrate the new year.
One thing I can tell you right now is that we have already been successful flashing the RX8, Mazda 3 & Mazda 6 computers. It's really not a matter of whether we can do it. It's a matter of whether there's enough interest to justify spending the needed time to get seriously deeper into all the different areas of tuning. We will do this project no matter what. The purpose of this post was to help us determine whether we'll complete it within the next month or so or finish it later on in the year. What I mean by this is that we have many projects that we are currently finishing and working on and the RX8 is just one we recently stumbled across and found that it's pretty simple and can be completed realatively quickly. If the interest is great enough, we will need test vehicles during the month of January. Any Central Florida locals?
One of my main questions would be...If you were designing our software, what areas of adjustments would you like to have control of (fuel, timing, limiters etc...)? Your input here would be extremely helpful?
As far as other products that we have developed already, anyone and everyone is more than welcome to stop by our facilities and see exactly what we're up to, what we have and what we're going to be releasing.
One thing I can tell you right now is that we have already been successful flashing the RX8, Mazda 3 & Mazda 6 computers. It's really not a matter of whether we can do it. It's a matter of whether there's enough interest to justify spending the needed time to get seriously deeper into all the different areas of tuning. We will do this project no matter what. The purpose of this post was to help us determine whether we'll complete it within the next month or so or finish it later on in the year. What I mean by this is that we have many projects that we are currently finishing and working on and the RX8 is just one we recently stumbled across and found that it's pretty simple and can be completed realatively quickly. If the interest is great enough, we will need test vehicles during the month of January. Any Central Florida locals?
One of my main questions would be...If you were designing our software, what areas of adjustments would you like to have control of (fuel, timing, limiters etc...)? Your input here would be extremely helpful?
As far as other products that we have developed already, anyone and everyone is more than welcome to stop by our facilities and see exactly what we're up to, what we have and what we're going to be releasing.
01-01-2006, 11:07 AM
#35
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fastsvtss, I hope you realize after reading all these responses that there is a need , and not later BUT NOW....
One of my request I would have for your controller besides the obvious, Fuel ,Timing, is
being able to control the auxilary ports to open under BOOST, I'am sure you will see other
request from other forum members, so do what you can and as soon as you can...
We heard it all before, I hope this is true... You will have a very popular product if this can be accomplished by the date you say you can do this... Good Luck .
One of my request I would have for your controller besides the obvious, Fuel ,Timing, is
being able to control the auxilary ports to open under BOOST, I'am sure you will see other
request from other forum members, so do what you can and as soon as you can...
We heard it all before, I hope this is true... You will have a very popular product if this can be accomplished by the date you say you can do this... Good Luck .
01-01-2006, 11:21 AM
#36
Bummed, but bring on OU!
Originally Posted by fastsvtss
One of my main questions would be...If you were designing our software, what areas of adjustments would you like to have control of (fuel, timing, limiters etc...)? Your input here would be extremely helpful?
Last edited by therm8; 01-01-2006 at 11:25 AM.
01-01-2006, 11:22 AM
#37
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What do people want control of? Obvious stuff... timing, fuel... open loop and closed loop, SDAIS opening/closing. Maybe electronic throttle body too. Are there any "secret" unknown settings/features? Depending on function these could be something too...
01-01-2006, 11:29 AM
#38
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Count me in also.
I have an AT and it's always bothered me that we're limited to a
lower red line then the MT guys.
Yes, I know Mazda is concerned about the AT exploding/imploding if I Rev the engine
higher then spec's...
But hey, I'm a big boy and if I want to chance damaging my tranny, it's my choice.
Good Luck!
I have an AT and it's always bothered me that we're limited to a
lower red line then the MT guys.
Yes, I know Mazda is concerned about the AT exploding/imploding if I Rev the engine
higher then spec's...
But hey, I'm a big boy and if I want to chance damaging my tranny, it's my choice.
Good Luck!
01-01-2006, 11:37 AM
#39
Bummed, but bring on OU!
Originally Posted by EyeBall Fixer...(o)(x)
Count me in also.
I have an AT and it's always bothered me that we're limited to a
lower red line then the MT guys.
Yes, I know Mazda is concerned about the AT exploding/imploding if I Rev the engine
higher then spec's...
But hey, I'm a big boy and if I want to chance damaging my tranny, it's my choice.
Good Luck!
I have an AT and it's always bothered me that we're limited to a
lower red line then the MT guys.
Yes, I know Mazda is concerned about the AT exploding/imploding if I Rev the engine
higher then spec's...
But hey, I'm a big boy and if I want to chance damaging my tranny, it's my choice.
Good Luck!
I just want a little more room so I don't bang the limiter so much in 1st. Quicker shifts would help with this too. If I ever get a supercharger (*cough, what's the holdup
), 8000rpm shouldn't be that hard on the trans/tc (with a cooler of course), and extend the powerband a bit. The 2-3 shift is sloppy sometimes as well, near redline. A little more hydraulic pressure would go a long way for better shifts. I'm not even sure a flasher could do this for the transmission (the tcu should be flashable also though).
01-01-2006, 12:42 PM
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Yeah, we are able to view the current OEM MAPS. We have already discovered what changes have been done between the K-to-L-to-M flash strategies from the factory.
Olddragger, you mentioned "FI is another subject." What are you referring to?
Nemesis8, "TPMS."?
Please spell out the acronyms, since the Mazda world is somewhat new to me. Personally, my last 19 years experience have been in the domestic community.
Olddragger, you mentioned "FI is another subject." What are you referring to?
Nemesis8, "TPMS."?
Please spell out the acronyms, since the Mazda world is somewhat new to me. Personally, my last 19 years experience have been in the domestic community.
01-01-2006, 12:46 PM
#47
TPMS is the Tire Pressure Monitoring Sensors in the OEM wheels. Once you put on aftermarket rims without the sensors, a dash light comes on. It's not a big deal, just an annoyance.
Oldragger is referring to Forced Induction
Oldragger is referring to Forced Induction
Last edited by Nemesis8; 01-01-2006 at 01:02 PM.
01-01-2006, 03:18 PM
#50
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I would like to have one for the shop as soon as you are ready to deliver. Count me in and thanks for the research and development.
Charlie Shatzen
Mazcare Inc
Marietta, ga.
www.mazcare.com
Charlie Shatzen
Mazcare Inc
Marietta, ga.
www.mazcare.com