Possible issues from well known vendor's fuel pump upgrade. Mazsport
08-11-2008, 06:00 PM
#26
Doppelgänger
Thread Starter
Sounds like the sock is clogged with something again Jason, as we had discussed before when you were contemplating premixing again, bring me the car to inspect whats going on and I will take care of it at no cost to you. Last time it was an oily gunk of premix and since it's on the premix again, it may be the same thing. We have been taking photo's of the socks for awhile now to compile a bad premix list and this (if it's bad) will be more data collected. BTW, if we do the work and the pump is bad, I warranty it for you even though it's been over a year.
08-11-2008, 06:50 PM
#30
Registered User
Unless you are premixing with sugar, its not gunna clog anything. Check for bad connections, I had one do the exact thing with a bad wire. It did it worse with 1/4 tank of gas also...oddly enough. Make sure wire isnt pinched.
If anyone has seen a filter clogged by premixing I would love to see it, and see what oil did it more than anything. I run 4oz. per gallon through the same type filter (since 1987), and have run hundreds and hundred of gallons through it, never once clogged. You guys are barely running enough oil to even call it premixing from what I have seen....cant see that being an issue.
If anyone has seen a filter clogged by premixing I would love to see it, and see what oil did it more than anything. I run 4oz. per gallon through the same type filter (since 1987), and have run hundreds and hundred of gallons through it, never once clogged. You guys are barely running enough oil to even call it premixing from what I have seen....cant see that being an issue.
Last edited by Outkast187; 08-11-2008 at 06:55 PM.
08-11-2008, 07:04 PM
#31
IMO part of the problem is pump voltage through the crappy wire the OEM harness comes with. I don't see the upgraded pump running well at below 10V like the OEM pump does in low output mode.
I just rewired my fuel pump with 10ga straight to the battery. Made a huge difference. I should have logged the pump voltage before I did it to " prove" my theory...but it made a difference in pump output.
I think the other problem is the OEM siphon to drain the passenger side tank. I solved that problem as well with an OEM pump on the passenger side plumbed into the fuel pressure regulator return to fill the "cup" in the main pump.
I'm going to try it that way and see how it works before possibly plumbing it differently.
I just rewired my fuel pump with 10ga straight to the battery. Made a huge difference. I should have logged the pump voltage before I did it to " prove" my theory...but it made a difference in pump output.
I think the other problem is the OEM siphon to drain the passenger side tank. I solved that problem as well with an OEM pump on the passenger side plumbed into the fuel pressure regulator return to fill the "cup" in the main pump.
I'm going to try it that way and see how it works before possibly plumbing it differently.
08-11-2008, 07:19 PM
#34
Should be
I don't know how many connectors and how long the wiring harness is...but I bet you have at least 12 feet of wire in that harness....
I was having pressure drop outs before I rewired it that stopped immediately after...that's all the data that I have..
08-11-2008, 07:30 PM
#35
I have been having a love/ hate relationship with the fuel system in this car from long before I went FI ..... mostly hate. My first OEM pump lasted about 6 months, and about 5 track days.....I then replaced the OEM pump with another and it worked for a few months and then started crapping out in left handed corners when really pushing high g's. At that time I checked the pump and the pressure output seemed OK..but the thing just couldn't keep up in the corners.
Then I wired another OEM pump into the passenger side..and this stopped the problem NA for the next couple of years.
When I went FI...I put in the pump upgrade...and removed the passenger pump because i thought that the higher output pump would solve the problem.
I was wrong....back to the left hand turn crapping out stuff again under G loads over .8 or so
Hence the return to the 2 pump system that I hope will work. Otherwise I'm getting to the point that I'm going to put a fuel cell in the trunk, or an accumulator tank in and solve the problem for good
Then I wired another OEM pump into the passenger side..and this stopped the problem NA for the next couple of years.
When I went FI...I put in the pump upgrade...and removed the passenger pump because i thought that the higher output pump would solve the problem.
I was wrong....back to the left hand turn crapping out stuff again under G loads over .8 or so
Hence the return to the 2 pump system that I hope will work. Otherwise I'm getting to the point that I'm going to put a fuel cell in the trunk, or an accumulator tank in and solve the problem for good
08-11-2008, 07:33 PM
#36
Destroying Threads
no, do I have to? I just routed the copper wire from the manifold to the FPR......
I have fuel pressure gauge from way back when (electronic one, autometer sportcomp2) before when I was NA, it would be at 59 PSI stock, all the time, never fluxing
now when I start the car, it's at 40ish and I can hear the pump at a low whine, then about 2-3 minutes it goes to high whine and goes to 59 PSI, then when I go in boost, it goes down and down and down till it hits 50.......then it goes up again (usually cus i ran out of rpms)
I have fuel pressure gauge from way back when (electronic one, autometer sportcomp2) before when I was NA, it would be at 59 PSI stock, all the time, never fluxing
now when I start the car, it's at 40ish and I can hear the pump at a low whine, then about 2-3 minutes it goes to high whine and goes to 59 PSI, then when I go in boost, it goes down and down and down till it hits 50.......then it goes up again (usually cus i ran out of rpms)
08-11-2008, 07:58 PM
#37
now when I start the car, it's at 40ish and I can hear the pump at a low whine, then about 2-3 minutes it goes to high whine and goes to 59 PSI, then when I go in boost, it goes down and down and down till it hits 50.......then it goes up again (usually cus i ran out of rpms)
08-11-2008, 08:04 PM
#39
Doppelgänger
Thread Starter
Scott, did you miss what I posted above? I get the feeling you're posting here to placate the public and make it appear like you're interested in helping me. However you're not responding to my question, and you have been ignoring my emails for the last month, so I feel like you don't really give a crap. Maybe I'm mistaken, so let me know if I'm off base. Even a simple email saying "I'm not interested" would be appreciated.
08-11-2008, 09:18 PM
#40
Metatron
iTrader: (1)
Mysql, your problem sounds just like mine (there are several fuel problems mentioned here, the "left-hander-on-the-track" is a seperate one, as is the "fuel pressure variation")
Happened a couple of years ago, would get worse near the botton 1/3rd of a tank, would sputter and just lose power - slower nd slower - won't hold seventy, then won't go fifty, the thirty or stall. Very frustrating.
No codes, and would only do it after a good run, so almost immposible to show the tech.
Eventually took the tech for a run and got it to start burping and sputtering - he has his laptop plugged into the OBD, and constantly reassures me there are no codes, nothing wrong, engine is happy, ECU is cheerful - until finally we are stalled in the fast lane of the highway. One more time he mentions that there is nothing wrong with the engine, so I ask would he mind helping to push the car off the road?
Mazda bought me a new fuel pump which fixed the problem completely - for six months, then it all starts again!
I knew it was a pump problem, but not exactly what, and I couldn't get that big friggin ring off the pump to check it out - I tried to make a tool to twist it off, with limited success. I got a pry-bar and mallet and started banging away at the ring (Oredered a new ring from the dealer first!)
I'll start a DIY thread on how to clean the filter sock It was plugged solid with tiny threads of slimy green snot. I pre-mix really heavy, so was interested in how gummy the tank and pump would be - actually clean as a whistle - the tank is white inside! Who knew?
There was absolutely NO gunk in the tank bottom. Pump housing is white plastic - again pristine as the first snow.
The housing's designed with a one way valve and baffles around the pump inlet, so anything that gets in stays in, and the anything that can plug the sock stays right there ready to stick on again and choke the fuel off. The sock was a dark green colour, with the stringy fibrous slime on it. I have to say that it looked 'organic'. It wasn't rust, scale, gum, oil or flakes - it looked like a fine seaweed.
Actual dis-assembly of the pump was easy, little clips and springs all over, but simple to do. I'll definitely be making this a maintenance item from now on.
S
Happened a couple of years ago, would get worse near the botton 1/3rd of a tank, would sputter and just lose power - slower nd slower - won't hold seventy, then won't go fifty, the thirty or stall. Very frustrating.
No codes, and would only do it after a good run, so almost immposible to show the tech.
Eventually took the tech for a run and got it to start burping and sputtering - he has his laptop plugged into the OBD, and constantly reassures me there are no codes, nothing wrong, engine is happy, ECU is cheerful - until finally we are stalled in the fast lane of the highway. One more time he mentions that there is nothing wrong with the engine, so I ask would he mind helping to push the car off the road?
Mazda bought me a new fuel pump which fixed the problem completely - for six months, then it all starts again!
I knew it was a pump problem, but not exactly what, and I couldn't get that big friggin ring off the pump to check it out - I tried to make a tool to twist it off, with limited success. I got a pry-bar and mallet and started banging away at the ring (Oredered a new ring from the dealer first!)
I'll start a DIY thread on how to clean the filter sock It was plugged solid with tiny threads of slimy green snot. I pre-mix really heavy, so was interested in how gummy the tank and pump would be - actually clean as a whistle - the tank is white inside! Who knew?
There was absolutely NO gunk in the tank bottom. Pump housing is white plastic - again pristine as the first snow.
The housing's designed with a one way valve and baffles around the pump inlet, so anything that gets in stays in, and the anything that can plug the sock stays right there ready to stick on again and choke the fuel off. The sock was a dark green colour, with the stringy fibrous slime on it. I have to say that it looked 'organic'. It wasn't rust, scale, gum, oil or flakes - it looked like a fine seaweed.
Actual dis-assembly of the pump was easy, little clips and springs all over, but simple to do. I'll definitely be making this a maintenance item from now on.
S
08-11-2008, 09:20 PM
#41
fuel pump -- rx8
IMO part of the problem is pump voltage through the crappy wire the OEM harness comes with. I don't see the upgraded pump running well at below 10V like the OEM pump does in low output mode.
I just rewired my fuel pump with 10ga straight to the battery. Made a huge difference. I should have logged the pump voltage before I did it to " prove" my theory...but it made a difference in pump output.
I think the other problem is the OEM siphon to drain the passenger side tank. I solved that problem as well with an OEM pump on the passenger side plumbed into the fuel pressure regulator return to fill the "cup" in the main pump.
I'm going to try it that way and see how it works before possibly plumbing it differently.
I just rewired my fuel pump with 10ga straight to the battery. Made a huge difference. I should have logged the pump voltage before I did it to " prove" my theory...but it made a difference in pump output.
I think the other problem is the OEM siphon to drain the passenger side tank. I solved that problem as well with an OEM pump on the passenger side plumbed into the fuel pressure regulator return to fill the "cup" in the main pump.
I'm going to try it that way and see how it works before possibly plumbing it differently.
Another thing was a huge fuel pump was fitted, and I have not Idea with a turbo Rx8, wheather this would coarse problems.--EG-- the calculations for fuel required is the injector sizes by how many injectors X 1.25 for a safty amount
- eg -- take the my old 20b -- 3 injectors @ 550cc (prim) & 3 injectors @ 850.
So 3 X 550cc= 1650cc, & 850ccX3=2550cc add the two = 4200 X 1.25= 5250, and this will be the fuel pump litres need pre minute. eg 5.25 litres pre minute or 1.386 gollons pre minute
I kept the std FPR, I did have a after market one for abit, but it just give problems.
My 2c worth, run a hot wire to the fuel pump, (I would do it via a kill switch), it shouldn't take you long, and it'll be a cheap way of see if the pump or the cars relays/wiring is the problem?
08-11-2008, 09:30 PM
#42
fuel pump sock
Mysql, your problem sounds just like mine (there are several fuel problems mentioned here, the "left-hander-on-the-track" is a seperate one, as is the "fuel pressure variation")
Happened a couple of years ago, would get worse near the botton 1/3rd of a tank, would sputter and just lose power - slower nd slower - won't hold seventy, then won't go fifty, the thirty or stall. Very frustrating.
No codes, and would only do it after a good run, so almost immposible to show the tech.
Eventually took the tech for a run and got it to start burping and sputtering - he has his laptop plugged into the OBD, and constantly reassures me there are no codes, nothing wrong, engine is happy, ECU is cheerful - until finally we are stalled in the fast lane of the highway. One more time he mentions that there is nothing wrong with the engine, so I ask would he mind helping to push the car off the road?
Mazda bought me a new fuel pump which fixed the problem completely - for six months, then it all starts again!
I knew it was a pump problem, but not exactly what, and I couldn't get that big friggin ring off the pump to check it out - I tried to make a tool to twist it off, with limited success. I got a pry-bar and mallet and started banging away at the ring (Oredered a new ring from the dealer first!)
I'll start a DIY thread on how to clean the filter sock It was plugged solid with tiny threads of slimy green snot. I pre-mix really heavy, so was interested in how gummy the tank and pump would be - actually clean as a whistle - the tank is white inside! Who knew?
There was absolutely NO gunk in the tank bottom. Pump housing is white plastic - again pristine as the first snow.
The housing's designed with a one way valve and baffles around the pump inlet, so anything that gets in stays in, and the anything that can plug the sock stays right there ready to stick on again and choke the fuel off. The sock was a dark green colour, with the stringy fibrous slime on it. I have to say that it looked 'organic'. It wasn't rust, scale, gum, oil or flakes - it looked like a fine seaweed.
Actual dis-assembly of the pump was easy, little clips and springs all over, but simple to do. I'll definitely be making this a maintenance item from now on.
S
Happened a couple of years ago, would get worse near the botton 1/3rd of a tank, would sputter and just lose power - slower nd slower - won't hold seventy, then won't go fifty, the thirty or stall. Very frustrating.
No codes, and would only do it after a good run, so almost immposible to show the tech.
Eventually took the tech for a run and got it to start burping and sputtering - he has his laptop plugged into the OBD, and constantly reassures me there are no codes, nothing wrong, engine is happy, ECU is cheerful - until finally we are stalled in the fast lane of the highway. One more time he mentions that there is nothing wrong with the engine, so I ask would he mind helping to push the car off the road?
Mazda bought me a new fuel pump which fixed the problem completely - for six months, then it all starts again!
I knew it was a pump problem, but not exactly what, and I couldn't get that big friggin ring off the pump to check it out - I tried to make a tool to twist it off, with limited success. I got a pry-bar and mallet and started banging away at the ring (Oredered a new ring from the dealer first!)
I'll start a DIY thread on how to clean the filter sock It was plugged solid with tiny threads of slimy green snot. I pre-mix really heavy, so was interested in how gummy the tank and pump would be - actually clean as a whistle - the tank is white inside! Who knew?
There was absolutely NO gunk in the tank bottom. Pump housing is white plastic - again pristine as the first snow.
The housing's designed with a one way valve and baffles around the pump inlet, so anything that gets in stays in, and the anything that can plug the sock stays right there ready to stick on again and choke the fuel off. The sock was a dark green colour, with the stringy fibrous slime on it. I have to say that it looked 'organic'. It wasn't rust, scale, gum, oil or flakes - it looked like a fine seaweed.
Actual dis-assembly of the pump was easy, little clips and springs all over, but simple to do. I'll definitely be making this a maintenance item from now on.
S
It could be that simple?
Last edited by rx8 man; 08-11-2008 at 09:34 PM.
08-11-2008, 09:32 PM
#43
Doppelgänger
Thread Starter
You guys sure the mazsport pump is setup the same way? What are the odds the pump got clogged within 3 weeks of being installed when the OEM one was fine for over 2 years?
08-11-2008, 09:33 PM
#44
^^ i used a relay
but it's a good old reliable Bosch relay that I have used for ton's of applications with no failures ever....
I also switched the passenger side tank so it can be shut off around town.....don't want to run it dry all the time
but it's a good old reliable Bosch relay that I have used for ton's of applications with no failures ever....I also switched the passenger side tank so it can be shut off around town.....don't want to run it dry all the time
08-11-2008, 09:43 PM
#45
Metatron
iTrader: (1)
Like I said, cleaning the sock won't do dick for the "left-hander" problem - I have no info on that, but I have to go with Scott - sounds like something in our premixes is growing seaweed! StealthWeed!
I note that Scott is suggesting that the sock needs cleaning, so the Mazsport pump would be built the same, with the same vulnerability.....
S
I note that Scott is suggesting that the sock needs cleaning, so the Mazsport pump would be built the same, with the same vulnerability.....
S
08-11-2008, 09:47 PM
#46
I've had nothing growing in my socks they have all been clean as a whistle...so were the filters. I have used 3 or 4 different pre-mixes before settling on the Idimetsu . I have used Yamalube, Rotax, Redline, and a few others...as well as Lucas and MMO...never had anything wierd happen.
I still think you Southern guys get crap growing in your gas station tanks
they have all been clean as a whistle...so were the filters. I have used 3 or 4 different pre-mixes before settling on the Idimetsu . I have used Yamalube, Rotax, Redline, and a few others...as well as Lucas and MMO...never had anything wierd happen.I still think you Southern guys get crap growing in your gas station tanks
08-11-2008, 10:03 PM
#47
fuel
I've had nothing growing in my socks they have all been clean as a whistle...so were the filters. I have used 3 or 4 different pre-mixes before settling on the Idimetsu . I have used Yamalube, Rotax, Redline, and a few others...as well as Lucas and MMO...never had anything wierd happen.
I still think you Southern guys get crap growing in your gas station tanks
they have all been clean as a whistle...so were the filters. I have used 3 or 4 different pre-mixes before settling on the Idimetsu . I have used Yamalube, Rotax, Redline, and a few others...as well as Lucas and MMO...never had anything wierd happen.I still think you Southern guys get crap growing in your gas station tanks
Yip, down here the fuel is Cheapess (well no where near as dear as it is in the UK) , But its low grade, and some of the gas stations tanks would be old as the hill?
