Brettus

iTrader: (2)

stay tuned - I got something for ya

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

anyhow, i quit man. this is no longer fun or interesting. no one is learning anything here and nothing worthwhile is happening. we could keep this up for a year and it'll still be me trying to figure out how to present to you whats in my head, and you saying nothing substantial to debate it but simply debating it.

combustion chamber pressure is the absolute basis of HOW an interal combustion motor works. i dont care anymore if you get it or not, or can debate it or not

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

well unless it disproves physics and shows that an identical mass of air and fuel can create different amount of combustion pressure/forces based on how the air got there.... then im not gonna bother with it.

and it better be a lot better than this nonsense..

you really believe that? that the aspiration type itself has any direct correlation to detonation?

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Ok here it is . What I did here is take a 350hp turbocharged renesis engine and double its output by adding two rotors and compare it to and RB26 .






Below is the dyno for the RB26



You getting any of this yet , or do I need to add the torque curve in there as well ?

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

haha wow you put all that effort into something this silly? we are all aware, as i had just said like 4 posts ago, the differences in hp/tq curves.

your statement was that those 2 piece seals didnt matter to this discussion because it was an NA motor. and now your backing that by showing how an NA curve is different.

wake up and realize that motor is from a ******* race car brett... you REALLY think it doesnt spend its life at and near maximum rpm and power? in the area where your fancy little graph there intersects?

god damn. i ******* quit man, this has gotten stupid. i'm sorry, i just simply dont know how to talk to ya anymore

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

You asked me to put more effort into trying to explain so I thought pics might be the only way to get through to your thick skull .



Making WAY less tourque than the FI car . You do know what torque is don't you Paul ? Torque is what breaks stuff - not hp .

More torque is created because cylinder pressures at lower rpm are higher than the NA engine .


Which means it is more prone to detonation and harder on apex seals - GET IT ?

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

like i said, i quit. i've been a dick already, and i see no way to continue this with you without really being cruel

(Torque x Engine speed) / 5,252 = Horsepower

hmm, HP is the same.... rpm is the same.... i must be missing the kool aid. ya, thats what would explain the stupidity behind this logic being presented

if you dont get that, and how it applies to what youve been saying. well, im sure you know what i think of that....

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

The same ? The same as what ? WTF is your argument here ?


It's like arguing with a preschooler ....

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

last chance to say ANYthing intelligent before i add you to the ignore list

(Torque x Engine speed) / 5,252 = Horsepower

do you argue this? if yes, then please provide the math and physics that disproves centuries of known scientific facts...

now look at your pretty little picture, specifically the area we were discussing, the max rpm and hp region where they intersect.

now plug in the power and rpm from each into that equation. do YOU get it

what happens when you have the same HP and RPM?

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Let me try this from another tack forgetting FI vs NA for the moment . Just comparing two engines of the same design .


When is detonation most likely to occur ? At the hp peak or the torque peak ?

At the torque peak - right ?

So .......... two engines making the same power but one makes way more torque that the other .
Would it be sensible to assume that the one making more torque would be more prone to detonation that the other ?

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

yes I get that . Now do YOU get what I said above ?

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

see previous post, and figure out why your basing your argument on the physically impossible. until you address that, i will not even acknowledge any other nonsense you have to say

you completely overlook facts and continue to try and make your argument in news ways.

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

you contradict yourself here.... you really expect me to take you seriously now?

you say you concede to and understand the relationship between HP, TQ, and RPM.

yet less than 5 minutes later, you try to make a point that completely contradicts this.

at this point, hypothetically - you could prove me wrong, have me concede to that, and i'd still laugh at you and your ability to understand any of this

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

sorry -but you are too thick for me to continue arguing with you .......... kthxbye

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

feeling's mutual.

you know i've always liked you and enjoyed arguing with you in the past, but its become senseless. your going on the iggy list to ensure prevention of future bs like this(cause otherwise i'd still jump right in). if ya ever need anything other than someone to hack it out with, yahoo mail is same as my user name

was fun while it was still fun...

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

You too argue like a couple of old ladies

It's funny...you can just not hit the "reply" button

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

i wish i had that kind of self control lol
but i am lazy enough not to bother changing settings, so this'll save the rest of you pages more silliness

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

If you wanted to find a rotary turbo race engine to match the NA 26b on the track how big would it need to be ?
Probably a 2 rotor at high boost could do it - right ? That's what turbocharging does - it enables the use of a smaller engine to achieve the same result .
So - which of those two engines has the most stressed apex seals ?

You could lessen the stress by going for a 3 rotor and using less boost but the apex seals of that engine would still be more stressed than the 4 rotor NA .

Turbo the 4 rotor and you get a much faster car with an engine that is more stressed .

So no matter what you do my argument still holds - a turbo race engine puts more stress on the apexs
due to higher combustion chamber pressures.

The turbo 4rotor Renesis was a bad example now that I think about it .Because as you correctly pointed out - the point the two lines intersect is where the combustion chamber pressures , power and torque are equal for both engines and all the turbo is doing (at that point) is overcoming all the inefficiencies of the renesis engine to achieve the same result.

Also:
Through all our arguments I forgot to mention the other issue with FI which is higher intake air temps . Another important factor in the whole detonation argument .

JETS3T8

Progress photos to relieve some tension...

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

Dang, how big are those plugs wires?

JETS3T8

10mm

ssspeedfreak

iTrader: (1)

Did you do any Cermet or any other Ceramic coatings internally? Any coatings to the rotors?

JETS3T8

Funny you should ask. I had initially planned to and was talking to Adam from REC to do the coatings, in the end I decided I couldn't wait any longer to get the car running. But when it's time to tear the motor apart I'll know for sure whether or not I should go for the coatings.

09Factor

I can haz many question.

1. Will it be @ SSXIII?
2. Do it run yet?
3. If it run, how can coolent temps be?
(sorry I'm in a wieerdness mode 2day)

It's nice to see your setup in your car.
Finally.

JETS3T8

If I can get all the gauges/electronics, exhaust and cold side plumbing finished, then yes.
(I'm optimistic that I can get it done...)

It would if I had my fuel cell/pump, it's a special order that takes 3 weeks, it should have shipped yesterday.

TBD.


Thx Dave, yours too.