interest in how to cool your engine thread?
08-14-2010, 03:04 PM
#102
We're being too dispersive and vague again imho.
We should force us to follow some method in order to make this thread useful.
What is the proper operating temperature of this engine? (Water\Oil)
What may be considered overheating? (Water\Oil)
What is the extreme heat before failure can be expected? (Housing warp, risk of detonation for FI guys, cooking the gaskets etc).
Given a proper target temperature we can start discussing what works in our individual set up and what doesn't.
I know that my car just doesn't reach operating temperature when highway cruising in winter with these mods:
MM AccessPORT
Open front grille,
empty engine bay (Aem intake with no lower tray, small battery in a custom box),
Cut cooling vents in the wheel wells and slightly tilted hood (2cms on the right side only).
Mazmart's water pump\pressure regulator
I run a 60\40 water\coolant mixture, use 10w40 synthetic oil and a 7bar oil system pressure.
The temperatures are around 75° for both the water and the oil when highway cruising. 85° while traffic driving in winter (0-20°C)
During summer everything sits around 85° and stays there (20\40°c). At the track i have just once seen temperatures above 95°C during the third 20min session on a 38°C day (Tight test track, only 2km long)
The car is still NA and sports a shorter final gear, so higher average rpms.
It would also be interesting to point out when the car's effectively warm for the guys that don't have the means to keep track of the effective temperatures. This time frame changes vastly from winter to summer!
Anybody else willing to follow this way to show what works when and where?
We should force us to follow some method in order to make this thread useful.
What is the proper operating temperature of this engine? (Water\Oil)
What may be considered overheating? (Water\Oil)
What is the extreme heat before failure can be expected? (Housing warp, risk of detonation for FI guys, cooking the gaskets etc).
Given a proper target temperature we can start discussing what works in our individual set up and what doesn't.
I know that my car just doesn't reach operating temperature when highway cruising in winter with these mods:
MM AccessPORT
Open front grille,
empty engine bay (Aem intake with no lower tray, small battery in a custom box),
Cut cooling vents in the wheel wells and slightly tilted hood (2cms on the right side only).
Mazmart's water pump\pressure regulator
I run a 60\40 water\coolant mixture, use 10w40 synthetic oil and a 7bar oil system pressure.
The temperatures are around 75° for both the water and the oil when highway cruising. 85° while traffic driving in winter (0-20°C)
During summer everything sits around 85° and stays there (20\40°c). At the track i have just once seen temperatures above 95°C during the third 20min session on a 38°C day (Tight test track, only 2km long)
The car is still NA and sports a shorter final gear, so higher average rpms.
It would also be interesting to point out when the car's effectively warm for the guys that don't have the means to keep track of the effective temperatures. This time frame changes vastly from winter to summer!
Anybody else willing to follow this way to show what works when and where?
08-14-2010, 03:10 PM
#103
Yes...the oil coolers can be improved..and the thermostat is definitely an area of improvement. I have an Earls Billet one that allows my oil temp to warm up faster..and provides much better cooling than the stock system
I'm on the fence about the single cooler..unless it's a Setrab or similar and big ( just cant seem to pop for the damn thing though (..the cooler I want is close to 1K 
) Seems to work better than the stock system though from the guy that uses it
I haven't tried the additional radiator thing because in my mind a bigger..better RAD makes more sense to me.....and was worth the PIA factor getting it in and working
If you spent the cost of the other rads..the other mods...and you likely would end up at the same general price point....so cost isn't really an issue either.
It's like everything else...there is more than one way to do anything..and often the results are the same
I'm on the fence about the single cooler..unless it's a Setrab or similar and big
( just cant seem to pop for the damn thing though (..the cooler I want is close to 1K ) Seems to work better than the stock system though from the guy that uses it I haven't tried the additional radiator thing because in my mind a bigger..better RAD makes more sense to me.....and was worth the PIA factor getting it in and working
If you spent the cost of the other rads..the other mods...and you likely would end up at the same general price point....so cost isn't really an issue either.
It's like everything else...there is more than one way to do anything..and often the results are the same
$1K for an oil cooler, wow. I think even the smallest single race oil cooler like the fluidyne therm-hx series would be much better then the dual stock unit and probably overkill even for the most extreme conditions you could put the rx8 through. http://www.fluidyne.com/pl_theoc.htm...17,%20DB-30417
The smallest one offered is 14 3/4" x 6 1/4" x 2 3/4" and holds 1.15 qts of oil, which is more oil then the stock dual system including the lines. It can be purchased for just over $200.
I think I will go with the fluidyne 50mm Plate Fin Cooler DB-30120 11X8X2 which holds .5 QTS of oil. http://www.fluidyne.com/pl_hpaccessories.html. I can get one of these for about $160. I would be shocked if this wasn't an upgrade to the stock unit. And as mentioned, the stock coolers and lines are restrictive. So a single upgraded cooler and upgraded lines would improve pressure and flow over stock.
08-14-2010, 03:15 PM
#104
^^^ So the Fluidyne single oil cooler you are getting is going to be roughly the same size as stock oem oil coolers but cool better than both of them? Am I reading this correctly? Which stock oil cooler will you be replacing? Driver side correct?
08-14-2010, 03:29 PM
#106
08-14-2010, 04:42 PM
#107
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Highway8, check ebay for Fluidyne coolers and be creative in your search methods. My cooler (28" fluidyne) is a $600.00 cooler and I paid a little over $100.00 and it was in excellent shape.
08-14-2010, 04:53 PM
#108
Last edited by Highway8; 08-14-2010 at 04:55 PM.
08-14-2010, 05:00 PM
#110
The stock coolers are not that effecient and I dont think they have an 11X8X2 core. I have not measured them but I will before I buy my cooler. I will be removing both coolers and all the sock lines and install one cooler into the drivers side with new 10AN braided line and a real oil cooler thermostat. I will go with a cooler that is at least a 50% greater overall core size from one of the stock units. Plus size isnt everything, or at least thats what I hear.
08-14-2010, 05:01 PM
#111
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08-14-2010, 05:04 PM
#112
Thanks for the heads up on Setrab, I will Google them.
08-14-2010, 05:09 PM
#114
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
I always spend a lot of time shopping around looking for the right product at the right price, so it will be a while before I buy. Plus I am still in the initial planning phases, I want to see how the car does on my first FI track day before I change anything.
Thanks for the heads up on Setrab, I will Google them.
Thanks for the heads up on Setrab, I will Google them.
08-14-2010, 05:45 PM
#116
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
08-14-2010, 06:00 PM
#118
The block fitting from that list would be a 5/8 JIC X 18-1.5 thread
So basically a -10AN X 18mm. Angles on the fitting are a bit off...but you can use all JIC fittings instead of -AN stuff...they are a lot cheaper (steel) instead of alum
Or you can use -10AN X18-1.5 Alum -AN fittings you can buy at Summit of Jegs or someplace like that
So basically a -10AN X 18mm. Angles on the fitting are a bit off...but you can use all JIC fittings instead of -AN stuff...they are a lot cheaper (steel) instead of alum
Or you can use -10AN X18-1.5 Alum -AN fittings you can buy at Summit of Jegs or someplace like that
08-14-2010, 06:19 PM
#120
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iTrader: (46)
The block fitting from that list would be a 5/8 JIC X 18-1.5 thread
So basically a -10AN X 18mm. Angles on the fitting are a bit off...but you can use all JIC fittings instead of -AN stuff...they are a lot cheaper (steel) instead of alum
Or you can use -10AN X18-1.5 Alum -AN fittings you can buy at Summit of Jegs or someplace like that
So basically a -10AN X 18mm. Angles on the fitting are a bit off...but you can use all JIC fittings instead of -AN stuff...they are a lot cheaper (steel) instead of alum
Or you can use -10AN X18-1.5 Alum -AN fittings you can buy at Summit of Jegs or someplace like that
.
08-15-2010, 01:33 PM
#121
bse asked some good questions.
I have been told by various race teams that side plate problems start showing with sustained coolant temps over 225F. The engine will not immediate fail but the life expectancy off Good compression will be greatly reduced. By sustained they meant for the entire race. Sprint races 20-30 minutes long. I have been told the same by Mazmart, Pettit and Mazcare.
General rule of thumb is to keep it under 220F. That is the number I generally use for the sake of simplicity.
220F---dont go over that for ant period of time. That was my goal.
I have seen engines go for short periods of times (not mine) to 235-240F. If it happened once and the driver backed off--it seemed to be ok for some and for some coolant seals went.
I have never heard of a too hot oil problem. I do know corvertte owners routinely get to 250 to 260F. A good quality oil will take it to 300F, the rubber/silicone engines seals may not.
The only thing that i can think off that a certain oil temp pattern may show is problem with the e pellet. But i have never seen that--maybe someone else has?
Minimum coolant temp for placing a heavy load on the engine is 160-180F.
What some dont realize if they dont have gauges is that when the cars temp gauge 1st gets to the normal range---its not even at 160 yet. And the oil is barely at 140. I preach this at track days when i see people not properly warming their cars (not just the engine).
OD
I have been told by various race teams that side plate problems start showing with sustained coolant temps over 225F. The engine will not immediate fail but the life expectancy off Good compression will be greatly reduced. By sustained they meant for the entire race. Sprint races 20-30 minutes long. I have been told the same by Mazmart, Pettit and Mazcare.
General rule of thumb is to keep it under 220F. That is the number I generally use for the sake of simplicity.
220F---dont go over that for ant period of time. That was my goal.
I have seen engines go for short periods of times (not mine) to 235-240F. If it happened once and the driver backed off--it seemed to be ok for some and for some coolant seals went.
I have never heard of a too hot oil problem. I do know corvertte owners routinely get to 250 to 260F. A good quality oil will take it to 300F, the rubber/silicone engines seals may not.
The only thing that i can think off that a certain oil temp pattern may show is problem with the e pellet. But i have never seen that--maybe someone else has?
Minimum coolant temp for placing a heavy load on the engine is 160-180F.
What some dont realize if they dont have gauges is that when the cars temp gauge 1st gets to the normal range---its not even at 160 yet. And the oil is barely at 140. I preach this at track days when i see people not properly warming their cars (not just the engine).
OD
08-17-2010, 09:05 PM
#123
This oil cooler is rated at 70K BTU at 60MPH. The 28" is rated at 10K if I remember correctly. If my math and measurements of the stock cooler are accurate, the stock cooler is 154 QU inches and the fluidyne is 263. That 60% larger and a much more effecient unit plus higher/better flow should be more then enough for track days.
08-17-2010, 11:02 PM
#124
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I have never heard of a too hot oil problem. I do know corvertte owners routinely get to 250 to 260F. A good quality oil will take it to 300F, the rubber/silicone engines seals may not.
The only thing that i can think off that a certain oil temp pattern may show is problem with the e pellet. But i have never seen that--maybe someone else has?
OD
For each 15*F of oil temperature above 160*f, your oil life gets cut in half. 185* has half the usable life as 160*F. 200*F has half the usable life as 185*F and a quarter the life of 160*f oil and so forth and so on. The hard part is in saving what that life span actually is. Different oils breakdown faster than others. You can see that higher oil temps really start to kill your oil faster and faster.
08-18-2010, 10:19 AM
#125
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iTrader: (46)
I found and bought a used fluidyne race oil cooler 14.75X6.5X2.75 (holds over 1 qt of oil) on ebay for $165 deliverd. It retails for $300. It also comes with a couple 12AN lines. I hope to use them both to connect to my oil thermostat, but if they are not the right length I will only use one of them (which still saves me $40+ on fittings and hose).
This oil cooler is rated at 70K BTU at 60MPH. The 28" is rated at 10K if I remember correctly. If my math and measurements of the stock cooler are accurate, the stock cooler is 154 QU inches and the fluidyne is 263. That 60% larger and a much more effecient unit plus higher/better flow should be more then enough for track days.
This oil cooler is rated at 70K BTU at 60MPH. The 28" is rated at 10K if I remember correctly. If my math and measurements of the stock cooler are accurate, the stock cooler is 154 QU inches and the fluidyne is 263. That 60% larger and a much more effecient unit plus higher/better flow should be more then enough for track days.