BHR Ignition Kit Doesn't Work!!
04-26-2009, 11:25 PM
#155
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Kane, what it sounds like you're asking is not what the dwell settings should be but instead you're asking how the AP pro tuner works regarding the dwell settings. Is this correct?
04-26-2009, 11:34 PM
#156
That's exactly what we have been saying. Since we know that the Yukon coils can operate well up to the 5ms range we suggested using that value to eliminate any problems you might have.
Kane, what it sounds like you're asking is not what the dwell settings should be but instead you're asking how the AP pro tuner works regarding the dwell settings. Is this correct?
Kane, what it sounds like you're asking is not what the dwell settings should be but instead you're asking how the AP pro tuner works regarding the dwell settings. Is this correct?
If you guys say add 50%, 20%, 1000% whatever or show a screen cap - binary etc... something to tell the folks not using Jeff's tuning service how to fix the dwell issue then we are good.
04-26-2009, 11:43 PM
#157
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Nope - I am asking for the equivalent changes to the factory PCM (via Cobb, Hymee whatever) to equate to the already published 5ms duration.
If you guys say add 50%, 20%, 1000% whatever or show a screen cap - binary etc... something to tell the folks not using Jeff's tuning service how to fix the dwell issue then we are good.
If you guys say add 50%, 20%, 1000% whatever or show a screen cap - binary etc... something to tell the folks not using Jeff's tuning service how to fix the dwell issue then we are good.
I'll see if I can come up with a concrete percentage and over what RPM range.
04-27-2009, 01:32 AM
#159
04-27-2009, 07:44 AM
#161
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Dwell settings are not part of the physical ignition coil, it is a setting which is adjusted in the tune of your Rx8 and can only be changed using some form of enging management such as the accessport, EMU, interceptor-x etc.
04-27-2009, 08:03 AM
#162
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What I meant was, the dwell set up I choose for resistance 4,5,6. Or 7 on the BHR kit how far will the BHR kit resist.
I have read and received from other users that 4 is moderate. And that 7 is just
Abusing the coils.
Just thought this would be an interested subject
I have read and received from other users that 4 is moderate. And that 7 is just
Abusing the coils.
Just thought this would be an interested subject
04-27-2009, 04:44 PM
#165
...
Here's the problem for BHR; since we don't deal with Hymee and we have no way of ensuring the accuracy of EMSs which we do not use on a daily basis we can ONLY offer the proper dwell settings and NOT the end percentages. How do we know that anything other than the systems that Jeff is familiar with are accurate as to the info seen on the 3D grids or anywhere else in the software? The AP shows one thing but the Hymee may be different.
Here's the problem for BHR; since we don't deal with Hymee and we have no way of ensuring the accuracy of EMSs which we do not use on a daily basis we can ONLY offer the proper dwell settings and NOT the end percentages. How do we know that anything other than the systems that Jeff is familiar with are accurate as to the info seen on the 3D grids or anywhere else in the software? The AP shows one thing but the Hymee may be different.
actual you could just send the revised dwell table to pro-tuner users who have bought your kit and they can paste the map in.
04-27-2009, 05:53 PM
#167
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this whole fiasco could be solved with one screenshot... and the only thing "at risk" would be selling more coil kits by telling people "hey this is exactly what to do to get the best performance out of them".
why such a simple concept is failing here is beyond my comprehension
why such a simple concept is failing here is beyond my comprehension
04-27-2009, 05:54 PM
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04-27-2009, 07:15 PM
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Sorry, I'm going to disagree here. We are talking about a dwell map FOR YOUR coil package and it should not need to be a secret from the people who purchased them. We are not talking about a tuning guide or better dwell maps for OEM or other aftermarket solution. We are just talking about a way to actually get the benefit many of us bought into without having to go through a 3rd party to make them work.
"5ms" does not mean squat to anyone who is using a reflashed stock pcm nor would it mean anything to any AccessPORT Tuner probably besides Jeff.
"5ms" does not mean squat to anyone who is using a reflashed stock pcm nor would it mean anything to any AccessPORT Tuner probably besides Jeff.
04-28-2009, 12:34 AM
#171
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Just an observation.
If such info was made public before adequate testing is done, to the point where BHR is confident that it is idiot proof, and with as many angles covered/considered prior to release - we'd come back to square one as there will be idots out there (like myself) who would potentially get something wrong anyway AND blame it on the product rather than our own idiocy.
I respect the fact that they have come out with a statement claiming responsibility.
Note that I have my own customers on BHR coils who are calling/emailing me constantly for assurances that the coils are fine, wont blow their cars up, etc so I DO have a vested interest in wanting that info too.
But I'd rather give BHR the time that they need to resolve the issue properly then rush them and get a solution that may potentially give me more headaches.
To each his own I guess.
If such info was made public before adequate testing is done, to the point where BHR is confident that it is idiot proof, and with as many angles covered/considered prior to release - we'd come back to square one as there will be idots out there (like myself) who would potentially get something wrong anyway AND blame it on the product rather than our own idiocy.
I respect the fact that they have come out with a statement claiming responsibility.
Note that I have my own customers on BHR coils who are calling/emailing me constantly for assurances that the coils are fine, wont blow their cars up, etc so I DO have a vested interest in wanting that info too.
But I'd rather give BHR the time that they need to resolve the issue properly then rush them and get a solution that may potentially give me more headaches.
To each his own I guess.
04-28-2009, 02:29 AM
#173
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this whole fiasco could be solved with one screenshot... and the only thing "at risk" would be selling more coil kits by telling people "hey this is exactly what to do to get the best performance out of them".
why such a simple concept is failing here is beyond my comprehension
why such a simple concept is failing here is beyond my comprehension
Sorry, I'm going to disagree here. We are talking about a dwell map FOR YOUR coil package and it should not need to be a secret from the people who purchased them. We are not talking about a tuning guide or better dwell maps for OEM or other aftermarket solution. We are just talking about a way to actually get the benefit many of us bought into without having to go through a 3rd party to make them work.
"5ms" does not mean squat to anyone who is using a reflashed stock pcm nor would it mean anything to any AccessPORT Tuner probably besides Jeff.
"5ms" does not mean squat to anyone who is using a reflashed stock pcm nor would it mean anything to any AccessPORT Tuner probably besides Jeff.
First, as I have said time and time again...BHR's position is the suggest dwell settings should be 5ms of dwell at the very least around your torque peak for anyone that's running more than 300 g/s in that area. Increasing dwell in all areas of the power band will no doubt help but the torque peak is the critical area we're focusing on.
"Ok, so why doesn't BHR just hand over screenshots of the dwell tables for the AP?"
Because it's a support issue.
When I'm not playing with my RX8, I'm an IT professional providing high level support in a datacenter. We have guidelines of support and there are things we can't do and things we can do when it comes to customers. As such, I realized what's being asked is for BHR to provide technical support beyond our coil product.
Here's an example following the logic I've seen in this thread:
You buy a turbo kit from Greddy for your RX8. Now, it's impossible to use your turbo kit using the RX8's stock PCM so it's the responsibility of the customer to provide engine management and tuning. While greddy provides the emanage, they don't tell you how to tune the car.
So, you get the turbo installed but you don't have any idea what the car should be tuned to. So you call greddy and ask "what air/fuel rations should I run with your turbo kit?" Greddy says they suggest 11.5:1 air/fuel. Then you ask greddy...
"Ok, 11.5:1 sounds good but I have no idea how to tell my PCM to make my air/fuel 11.5:1 so can you just send me a screen shot of your RX8 fuel tables and I'll just copy/paste that into my tuning software?"
Of course the guy on the phone is going to tell you he can't do that. Even if they had that information sitting next to them.
Bottom line is, what's being asked of BHR is to provide the direct data to input into the accessport, hymee, interceptor-x, or whatever engine management being used. We have already stated what the dwell should be for the coils, is the responsibility of the customer to get that data into a format that can be applied to their PCM. If you're a cross customer of MazdaManiac then you can get him to alter the settings for you. If you're using Hymee's software I would talk to Hymee about getting that information.
Otherwise, I've given the necessary dwell settings above.
If there's any doubts I would refer them to a post Jeff made regarding the level of testing that's been conducted on these coils. Also every one of us here at BHR are running these coils in our RX8's. Mine is daily driven while all our cars are tracked on a fairly regular basis.
Last edited by Flashwing; 04-28-2009 at 02:32 AM.
04-28-2009, 03:43 AM
#175
The Hymee system actually lables it as ms and that's wrong.
Get out there, scope the coil input and rev the motor up and down while parked.
You will be surprised what the actual dwell values are.
Then, do the math for spark voltage and figure out for yourself what the values are.
Though Flashwing makes some good points, my main issue with "releasing" this information is strictly that I don't believe those that want it deserve to get it that easily.
Who did I ask to cough this up for me?
F-ing lazy bastards.