Brettus

iTrader: (2)

yes - now we are getting somewhere .

Who here would feel passionate about driving a Ferrari with an electric motor ....?

ArXate

Well if MM was psychic, then the last generation RX7 and the RX8 never existed! So I'm going to use his rotary bashing as a sure sign that the next rotary car will absolutely without a doubt be produced! And of course when it is produced, MM will be offering an awesome FI package and tuning for a reasonable price!

Psylence

About as passionate as I would feel about driving a Ferrari, or ANY car... without a clutch pedal. Even my wife says no clutch pedal no sale.

I suppose it's coming for all manufacturers sooner rather than later but I loathe the early sellouts.

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

i'd feel passionate driving a ferrari of any kind

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

I heard there are supercar manufacturers looking at using electric motors - but to retain the feeling of a high reving engine they will have a surround sound speaker system to replicate the appropriate noises ...

ArXate

Well the Lexus in Minority Report looked pretty cool to me. I'd drive one.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Man, y'all a bunch of emo bitches. lol
I guess that was to be expected, though.

Turn OFF your passion for a moment and turn ON your brain.

To answer Brett - the rotary is excellent in packaging and power-to-weight. It is also inherently smooth and its thermal characteristics lend itself to turbocharging better than any other motor, tuning aside.

But you guys are splitting hairs and looking for silver linings and, though commendable, is entirely missing the point.

Mazda built the RX-7 during a time when there was a market for such cars. To some degree, they created that market right as people could entertain such thoughts. Then they, just like Toyota and Nissan, shut the door on their own foot in the 90's by pricing themselves into a market where they couldn't compete.
These days, Toyota and Nissan can compete against Porsche and their ilk. Mazda cannot. It simply isn't part of their marketing strategy and they do not possess the market positioning that Nissan and Toyota set out to create by initiating "luxury brands" for the American market in the 80's.
The market for sportscars belongs to the powerful. The Miata is a brilliant exception to that. Even Honda has bailed from that market.
So, how can Mazda compete against their own niche?
By producing a car like the Hyundai Genesis that is positioned at a similar pricing point with the soul/handling/jinba ittai/whatever of the Miata.
But they simply cannot do that with the rotary. That would require violating laws of physics. Its too dirty, thirsty and weak to do the job.

Furthermore, they obviously don't intend to compete if Mazda's concept cars are any indication.
The Furai? Really? Does that even remotely look like a feasible automobile?

When the RX-8 was in the conceptual stages, the concept designs looked like real, functional cars. Look at the current concept cars put forth by Toyota and Nissan. They look like something you can actually drive.
Mazda concept cars look like origami! Whimsical, interesting and stylish, but completely impractical and totally contrary to the current tastes of the market.
Remember are the "designs of the future" that came out of the Big Three back in the 40's and 50's? Which got built? None of them. Not a single one. The Corvette was the most fantastic of all the designs and, underneath, it was a very plain automobile.

What you all want is a Mazda-built, rotary-powered Pony car. Ain't gonna happen. I hope I'm wrong.

robrecht

I don't want no pony car. I test drove an R3 and an 370z this weekend. I liked the R3 better for normal street speeds.

zoom44

actually I have a rotary pony car- its the RX-8. Its very much a modern mazda rotary interpretation of my '65 stang coupe. Fast and fun for the family of four.

btw from 6/03 through 3/10 71,699 RX-8s sold in the US. Getting total global numbers tomorrow.

robrecht

I agree, that's why I said above that the RX-8 was a classic Mustang positioning. But I would distinguish between the 1964.5 'secretary's car' and the legend of the Pony car that arose later.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Oh boy! Mazda only needs to sell 10 times as many in the next year to catch the AMC Gremlin in US sales.

For every RX-8 sold, 31 BMW 3-series go out the door.

It took Mazda 24 years to sell as many RX-7s world-wide as Nissan did 350s in just 3 years.

I have a supercharged 1995 Mustang GT. It in NO WAY compares to the RX-8 in fit, finish, poise or handling.
However, it gets much better gas mileage. lol

05rx8mazda

iTrader: (4)

Mazdamaniac has a mustang gt?!?!?!?!

zoom44

hey dont knock the Gremlin A buddy of mine had one with a chevy 350 in it it hauled ***

185,020 RX-8s total sold through end of 2009. So not as much as the 2nd and third gen combined. 2nd gen did about 230k-250k sales.

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

What I want is a car in the spirit of the original RX7, perhaps more refined and better handling. I think Kabura showed us the potential size of this potential car. Mazda has always been able to slay their bigger rivals in some performance categories. They don't need to have equal power or torque. Light weight, well balanced and smooth as silk as she revs. We'll see if they overcome the emission and fuel consumption hurdles.

I remain optimistic .

Paul.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

A convertible at that.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

ok----
how many would buy this car without a rotary engine in it?
if a recip was mated to the chassis what would mazda have?
interesting---
without radical tech changes(which a lot is available) MM is right -rotary engine is not a generalized player--specially player hell yea.
OD

Red Devil

I would have shopped around a little more...but if the rotary had never arrived in the RX-8, but instead came with like the mazda disi engine in the MS3, I would have stood a good chance of making that purchase.

JinDesu

iTrader: (2)

I hit 27mpg on a 200 mile stretch (200 miles / 7.365 gallons). I did exact mileage calculations at every stop, which usually ended up being me at a tad under half a tank while other people were at the quarter. I can post them up, but I'm going to be lazy and do that another time in another thread.

I'd say the trip down was 25mpg, the return trip was probably less as you said. But I did get that 27mpg 200 mile stretch in Virginia on the return trip.

ANYWAYS - there is nothing wrong with wishing that Mazda makes another rotary sports car. I don't see what the problem is. If they do it, cool. If they don't, it's understandable. I don't see the rotary competing well in this "green" market anyways. I'm not as harsh as MM, because I put some hope in a rotary SOMETHING coming out just for the hell of it

ShellDude

iTrader: (12)

since we've moved on to ponies ya'll remind me of something the big cheese at work always says to our fatally optimistic project managers....

"If you were to step in a pile a ****, you wouldn't care about the look or smell, or the fact that ****, is just that.... You'd ask 'Where's the pony?'".

I've put about 28K miles on my 8. About 1,400 of which were at 24-26mpg running between here and Tennessess. The remaing 26,600 miles I'm lucky to break 15. I can get 16 but gawd it's boring and painful.

So where's that pony?

Rote8

Where is there a 200 mile downhill stretch?

LOL

JinDesu

iTrader: (2)

^dunno - I wish my phone kept zip codes or something. Maybe one of the other guys I drove with can give locations, but it was between a Sonics in VA (mile 208) and a Starbucks in VA (mile 408). Time difference was 12:51PM to 4:58PM, but I can say we spent about an hour at Sonic at least.

pking1122

MM, as long as you keep tuning the current, and hypothetically, the next gen rotaries, we'll. So let the emo bitching continue!

8 Maniac

iTrader: (1)

I am definitely a fan of the rotary engine. It's a lot of fun and absolutely unique. That said, I'm going to pick the car with the feel and performance I like when I drive it. Aside from the space, I would, without a doubt, choose a 370z over the 8.

I think it would be interesting to see 2 engine options for the next car... piston and rotary. I doubt that would work as an idea, but it would be a way to increase the sales of the car. If it was a well designed piston engine, it would almost undoubtedly destroy the rotary version's sales. It would be interesting none the less.

Quick edit: Mazda can't rely on rotary fans to keep buying these cars. Though I do believe the future of the rotary depends on rotary fans, the RX-8 did not create/continue enough fandom. If the next rotary car does not do better, then we'll almost definitely be looking at the death of the rotary. Mazda needs to step up and make this a car that will not only bring in rotary fans, but also create new fans.

ASH8

I am amazed...who and the HELL cares about FUEL Economy when buying a SPORTS CAR...ANY SPORTS CAR??..

FFS, I get a consistent 500 KMS a Tank or 20MPG...I am happy with that, I rev her hard most of the time.

Journalists ALWAYS complain about the RX-8's economy, but when they road test a Porsche they say NOTHING about it's MPG..!!

Going back a few pages, what was inexcusable Mazda with the Renesis 1 in not having an Oil Supply for the middle of the Apex Seals, like they have done with EVERY other 13B RX-7 since Direct Oil Lubrication...a Huge error.

Charlie, I don't believe Mazda have made any money out of the RX-8 after all the engine rebuilds, what $5K per engine?..

I will say this again, IMO I believe Mazda lost a HUGE opportunity to throw a Rotary into the NC MX-5, even just for a limited few years, the tooling and overall cost would be negligible.
IMO it would not have hurt the RX-8's sales as an RX-5 would cater for those who want 2 seats in a lightweight convertible.

8 Maniac

iTrader: (1)

I don't care to a point. There's definitely a point where it's a bit ridiculous, though the 8 isn't as bad as most make it out to be. When it comes to the point where cars are fairly equal (or the other car is better) in performance and the 8 has less fuel efficiency, then that's one more thing against it. It's not a factor I'd be overly conscious about going into buying a car, but it's definitely something to consider for a daily driver if all else is mostly equal.

I don't think most people get that kind of mileage on the 8 anyways. I know I definitely don't come close to that kind of mileage in my 8.