MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

I'm absolutely sincere.

The rotary motor is just a motor. I have absolutely no attachment to it.

Cars are just a collection of metal, glass, plastic and rubber. They are complex machines and we as humans tend to create an anthropomorphism out of complex systems.
I do not. Its just a hunk of tin.

I would have bought the RX-8 just the same if it had a 2.3 liter turbo piston motor in it. Actually, I would have probably been more enthusiastic about it. Had it been equipped with the MZR (and marketed competently), it probably would have sold in numbers and order of magnitude higher than it did.

The rotary motor is awesome only in theory. In every real aspect, it is just a giant compromise.
It isn't even the motor that Wankel envisioned with true rotary motion. The Renesis is a planetary rotary motor, which the doctor found repulsive (and ultimately conceded as the only incarnation that could be built by an OEM).

zoom44

They proved it with the RX-8 too. As much as people bag on the sales drop of the RX-8 they seem to forget that Mazda has sold more RX-8s than 2nd and 3rd gen RX7s combined. They sold 100,000 in the first 18 months which is equal to the first 18 months of MX-5. For a niche sportscar from a low volume manufacturer that is Tremendous sales. Yes the sales took a hit with the problems no doubt. But they sold enough and made enough use of the chassis bits to make money.

The only time I have struggled to get 20 mpg on the highway was when a group of us were leadfooting our way back up 5 from sevenstock at 100+ miles per hour. Normal highway trips is 24 easy.



Me too Robert's got an RX-8 in his racing stable

http://www.robertdavisracing.com/RDR/P1.html

Mazda took Cat research/developement in house instead of relying on others for innovation. the result is their new single-nanoparticle catalyst that is making its way into production. The Mazda researcher just won an SAE award for it.

http://www.mazda.com/publicity/relea...1/090108a.html

http://www.asahi.com/english/TKY201004200297.html

Spin9k

Keeping things in perspective, iron is 2.9 times as dense as aluminum so for the **same volume of material** required - the cost comparison is $360 vs. $817 or 2.3 times as expensive for the aluminum raw material. Some costs need to be accepted if progress in materials are to be taken advantage of, elsewise nothing will improve, which is an untenable given the current status quo of the RENESIS. I would pay more for a better, lighter engine, wouldn't you?

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Though such lovely anecdotes make for wonderful bed-time stories, the vast majority of RX-8 owners could never get that kind of mileage no matter what they do and you know it.

But this does highlight why discussions like this one take the turn that they inevitably do: We let emotion and pride dictate our reason.

Red Devil

Good links! I hadn't read those.

D'oh, good point...personally, I would pay for such an engine but for whatever reason apparently the bean counters at Mazda haven't seen it or the R&D has not yet justified it. edit...too much conjecture on my part but I think to do this would still raise the price of an engine to the public by $1 K or maybe more

Red Devil

About 6 of us drove from Chicago to Gingerman Raceway in Michigan a few years back...every single one of us averaged 23 mpg @ 65-70 mph.

zoom44

No, what I know Jeff is that the car is quite capable of getting 24 mpg on the Highway. Not only do I know the vast majority can I know all all of them in good stock running condition can. I can take any stock 8- not just mine- up on the highway for a full tank and get 24 mpg. I have shown others that they can do it as well when they didnt believe it.

I'm not talking about even trying to "hypermile". Just fill up drive up on the highway to 65-75 mph and get back off when you need gas 340 miles later. All thats required is to SHIFT then stay in 6th.

There are many people here who have had days of 25,26 and even 27 mpg.

Not shifting is the same reason people get 13 around town. staying in 2nd and 3rd gear all the time instead of properly using the MT to up shift and downshift as needed.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

I've gotten as high as 26 MPG. I even managed over 360 miles on a single tank once.
I've also managed to use an entire tank in only 90 miles.
So what? Those are fluke numbers and often the result of something extreme or some regional difference.
It's not typical to see 24 MPG and the "normal" driving MPG for this car is much, much lower.

This is exactly how I drive on the highway and my car has ALWAYS gotten 20 MPG or less since it was brand new.

How many cars have you tried this on? I'm up to around 80. NONE of them have exceeded 22 MPG and quite a few of them won't even touch that driving exactly as you describe. I've driven more brand new RX-8s cross-country than you have probably touched.

So, not only do I "not believe" you (though I totally believe you, I just realize that you don't have sufficient data to make the claim that you are making), I must accept that you don't have nearly the same amount of experience as I do on the subject and therefore disregard your claim as anecdotal at best.

But none of this matters because most - if not all - of the cars in the RX-8's class do much better than this without any regard to driving style and make more power and less emissions while doing it.

pking1122

Gas mileage isn't that bad shifting between 2-3k. The problem is shifting at 4.5-6k is addictive, and feels more comfortable.

HiFlite999

iTrader: (2)

I think that the -8 would have done and be doing much better in sales were it not for the engine-life issues, even with the low mpg. After all, people drive 3 ton trucks around at 12 mpg carrying nothing but air in the back because of whatever it is else that gives them. Mazda has also missed out across their entire lineup on mega-stereo systems, bluetooth, cell phone, hard drives, and I-pod connectivity. Youngsters these days often know more about the car's electronics than what's under the hood. Ford is even successfully advertising F-150's based on the electronics options as much as towing megaton trailers.

HiFlite999

iTrader: (2)

Yes .... and no, in much the same way that words are nothing but lines on paper and a painting is nothing but surface-contaminated paper and music, pressure waves in air. The scientific method: hypothesize, test, conclude is at best incomplete and at worst a lie, because the most key step is not discussed. Where does the hypothesis come from? This quickly transforms into the question, "What is an idea?" Every man-made thing around us was at one point a physical manifestation of an "idea" in some single person's head. If we consider that humans are different from non-living entities in that they can contain an "idea", a car is different from a hunk of tin in that it is a physical manifestation of "ideas". In that way, it, and books, paintings, music, etc. while certainly not alive in the normal definition of the word, are also certainly not as dead as a hunk of tin. In the same way I like certain people for the ideas contained in them, I like certain cars as manifestations of certain ideas.

zoom44

10-15 cars personally driven or 30 or so drove along side of me for trips to 7stock or the Apple Blossom meet we used to do up here. how many others have followed my advice on here since 2003? hundreds.

of course day to day driving is lower- as was pointed out above driving in 2nd and 3rd is very addicting.

but doing real highway mileage runs of 300+ between tanks staying 75 or slower i've never seen anyone not get better than 22.

I've touched a good many brand new 8s- just how many HAVE you driven cross country?

Vlaze

iTrader: (14)

Hm..I think it depends on the driver style as well as car. I get 21mpg with 3/4 on the highway and 1/4 in a town/village area going through various speeds with my 8. I check the mpg at every fillup and calculate it. I'm confident I can get up to if not over 22 mpg if full highway.

In constant town/city areas I get around 18mpg. Varies for each car but varies more so in the city setting with your driving habits.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

OMG ...............another f'n MPG thread !!!!!!

zoom44

yeah i realized that too. ill stop

JinDesu

iTrader: (2)

Just mine, but I hit 25mpg consistently on 200 miles between fillups going down to and up from North Carolina, going 75mph+ :x

I don't understand what is the issue here. I'd like a new rotary sure, but I'm not going to expect it to outperform any piston engine in the variables that matter to the current market. My best analogy for the rotary is, it's an acquired taste. And the problem with acquired tastes are that not everyone will want it.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

All this rotary bashing from MM has got me thinking ........... Is there anything good about our engines ?
This is all i could think of ......
Because of its power output in relation to its physical size, weight and cost of production , it is the perfect choice for a low priced sports car designed more for handling and driving enjoyment than outright performance - kinda like the RX8

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

Not all of us can achieve that. Many live in an area where there are special summer/smog and high levels of alcohol blends of gas.

JinDesu

iTrader: (2)

Not saying everyone can achieve that, just saying that the outlook isn't so bleak. I had two manuals that were pushing the speed limits whenever they could getting almost 24mpg on that same trip. But the mpg talk is a slight digression of topic, because I believe the main issue with the rotary engine is that only us enthusiasts have any appreciation for it. How can Mazda market the engine if no one else really cares about it?

Psylence

Like I said, compare it to a 2stroke motorcycle and it makes more sense. Very much an acquired taste... but for those of us who like them, nothing else really scratches the itch. I'm still not buying the idea of a new rotary anytime soon or ever... and will be buying a 2010 R3 this summer.

...never got more than 17.5 hwy, 13 city in my 2004. But I don't have to pay for my fuel.

HiFlite999

iTrader: (2)

Where do I sign up for that?!

california style

very interesting. That new catalyst tech says it can deal with super harsh conditions, which sounds perfect for future rotary use too!

ArXate

Nah, you're not being detailed enough here. Did you do EXACT mileage calculations for tank after tank after tank on those trip? If so, you should post them up here, preferably to the tenth of a mpg.

I believe you when you say you can hit 25 mpg going DOWN from NY to North Carolina, but probably it's more like 24-something and probably many times 23-something.

Also, when you are going back to NY from NC, your mileage will be worse. I'd like to see the exact mileage calculations to the tenth of a mpg for multiple trips down and back.

Spin9k

Yes! Yes! Yes!

Finally put into words what I'd been thinking about during all this disscusion and desenting opinion on the merits, or lack there of, of the rotary engine. Inanimate objects created by people embody those individuals passion, skills, and knowledge. When we favor or 'love' those inanimate objects we are in fact recognizing the idea, the passion, the joy even, that someone else instilled into that inanimate object. A finely developed crafted car, a rotary engine, a Ferrari engine for example, more than a mass production committee designed engine, is the distilled essence of a driving passion to create a unique, special item. That is the root draw , the reason for the intense interest of some, the need to own it and/or experience it without regard to some deficiencies or failings.

Well at least for most of us except MM

Here are some other examples of these things...

Expensive aged wine, beer, liquor
Finely crafted watches, clocks
Expensive handmade musical instruments
Any Lotus, Ferrari, RX-8, MG, etc, etc, etc
Haute couture fashion
High maintenance people of all persuasions
and so forth and so on

None of these things are perfect, suit all people, nor even are interesting to the majority...but they exist for a reason, and fill a need.

May the rotary mystique endure, live long and prosper in it's own right!

ArXate

You need to drive on cruise control and use up an entire tank (or a majority of a tank) without more than a couple of stops (ie., shutting the engine off). If there's nothing wrong with your car or if it's not a tune thing, then a normal renesis will be able to achieve over 24 mpg over and over and over. This issue was figured out and decided on a LONG TIME AGO in 2004, if you check out the thread below.

Here's the best mpg thread ever done on this forum: https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discussion-3/mileage-long-distance-cruising-27-7-mpg%4060-mph%3B-26-mpg%4065%3B-25-mpg%4070%3B-24-mpg%4075-25283/.

If your question is what mpg can the RX8 achieve at what speed, this is the only mpg thread that matters.