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Don't see how this affects your setup though . Are you using an rx8 harness ?
Yes I am using the rx8 harness through the Adaptronics Select ECU (non-modular). Thing is, I don't know if Adaptronics takes this into account when sequencing injection...I guess I could send them an email and verify if their software sequences P1, P2, Secondary or P1, Secondary, P2, or just try swapping the deadtimes and flow volume in adaptroincs and see how that works.....
Thanks for the injection sequence information, at least I know that piece of the puzzle....
I edited my post above ... But anyway ....It sounds to me like Adaptronics may have copied the sequencing from that Mazda chart posted P1,sec,P2 . I've found that to be incorrect through experimentation so hence your problem.
I edited my post above ... But anyway ....It sounds to me like Adaptronics may have copied the sequencing from that Mazda chart posted P1,sec,P2 . I've found that to be incorrect through experimentation so hence your problem.
Well I have tried just about everything now and the car still runs terrible. It just runs shitty all over the place.
Tomorrow night I will hopefully swap everything back to the way it was and it will run again. It just doesn't make any sense. i have changed plugs, shortened the gap, replaced coils, quadruple checked the injector wiring, quadruple checked my ecu file, double checked fuel pressure, timing, and looked for any leaks. I have even moved the injectors around to try and isolate a problem. At this point I would just like to have it running normally by Saturday night so I can take it to the track. Based on everything happening over the last week, I give it a 25% chance.
So..... you expected to change out the injectors and it would run OK without a retune?
I think unless the old injectors were 100% correct in there characterization and you knew 100% of the new ones... you get to start from scratch
Not trying to be a dick..m but if it runs at all you should at least have a place to start
Iv'e had no issues tuning this car from day one with no map to start from. Its not like the tune is just "off".
It is like the injectors are wired incorrectly. This is not like i'm running a point lean and need more fuel type of issue.
It could be something like fuel is being dump in one chamber and lean in another, which is strange cause I checked the wiring over and over again. At WOT the car pops, shakes, shudders, and makes 0 power. I am 99% confident this is not a tuning fix, but a mechanical one.
Faulty injector? Although you said you had swapped them around so it should have changed something that you noticed.
I guess if you swap it back and it all works again it will help you figure it out. Those kind of issues can really pull your hair out though.
I guess it could be faulty injector. How rare would it be that an injector was somewhat faulty running on the third stage and never noticed it because there already two injectors propping it up when it came online? Now that its in the first or second position all hell is breaking loose. My next step is putting all back to the way it was. If it works, great! if it doesn't i'll be sending all my injectors in for inspection.
Your telling me about pulling hair out, I have spent more time on this injector issues than it took me to replace my last apex seal.
Over the years I have had issues like that.. I blew a couple of motors over voltage/current issues and EMF. And have lost a motor to oil starvation at the track before I went to a dry dump. Sometimes you just want to light the whole thing on fire 😎
I'm in the process of wiring in a new ECU so that means a total rewire and retune... so I feel for you
Well we are back in business. Even though I have used resistance tests on all the wires to make sure I has the right injector going into the right input on the computer, its like my wiring is different than how other RX8s are wired up. I really can't make sense of it all and I really don't care. I ended up just switching Rear Secondary and Front P2. My colors are even different. It says the injector relay wire is supposed to be white/blue, but mine is just black? My rear secondary wire is just blue and not blue/black?
I also believe that adaptronics does fire the secondaries second, as I see at 7.4k RPMs and 13 psi that I am only using 74% of the secondary injector with 100% left of the P2 1000cc/min injector.
Car runs better when you aren't getting a secondary and p2 injecting both into one chamber and the other is getting nothing, Now I gotta adjust the tune and add boost. Hopefully, I can get it running well enough to try and blow it up tonight at the track....
Here is a pull after a few minor fuel map adjustments (still need to add and pull in certain areas). Little dew on the road so I spun second. Great news with the temp change (high 50s), I was gaining 9.3 mph/s in third gear at 18 psi, which is the same acceleration I was gaining at 20 psi in warmer weather.
Knock values (purple line) all 10 or under which is the best I have seen.
Ethanol content 55-60%
At 7,500 RPMs and 19 psi, I still have ~60 percent left on the last injector.
Can't imagine what this car will do back at 24 psi in this weather.
Anyone need any ID725s with USCAR to Denso adapter, I will let them go real cheap.
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 11-03-2018 at 12:24 PM.
Well tonight was an utter failure. Track temp was in the low 60s.
I was able to get 3 runs at the 1/4-mile and in every run the clutch could not hold the power.
Here is my third run where I decided I would baby it out of the hole to keep the clutch as cool as possible. At this point I just wanted some good mph and afr data. This run is a real beauty. Babied the car out of the hole ran through first and second, shift into third gear (power-shifted it because its a habit) and clutch gives out. I coasted from about 500 to 1320 feet trying to pedal it. Was able to run a 15.6 I actually lost mph from the 1/8th to the 1/4 mile.... You can see how fucked I was as I passed the 1/8th mile traps at the 0:22 second mark, clutch was already gone
Anyone have any suggestions for an rx8 clutch? I believe the one I have now is rated for 411 lb/tq (thought it was more). I need something for at least 25-50% more.
Stage 5 SPEC is rated for 577 lb/tq at the flywheel, this looks to be the most promising. Anyone have any suggestions for single disc racing clutch comparable to the Spec Stage 5 I should look at?
I would like to keep the stock flywheel and counterweight if possible.
After talking to a few different shops, I have been talked into a twin disc setup. I would have like to have gone Exedy but they are so expensive and the twin disc only has a 500 lb/tq rating and the triple disc Exedy was $2,400 I ended up going with a SPEC D-Trim Mini Twin Clutch that has a torque capacity of 800lb/tq and should have more than I ever need. Last time I had my flywheel resurfaced the machine shop told me that it could not be resurfaced anymore since the bottom step was nearly cutting into the ring gear. So the cost of the Stage 5 clutch and new flywheel was already 80% of the way to a twin disc setup. I will probably being pulling the car apart this weekend and hopefully be installing the new clutch the weekend after. I would like to get it all broken in before I head back the the track for redemption.
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 11-06-2018 at 03:38 PM.
My new clutch is being built and should be leaving the factory on Monday. As I expected, no catastrophic damage or anything to the existing clutch just being over-powdered. Definitely put some heat into it. About 5,000 miles total, hundreds of highway pulls, and three failed 1/4-mile passes.
New clutch and flywheel is in!
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 11-15-2018 at 05:34 PM.
Update: Motor is back in. Tried to play with the clutch, but found out the master cylinder is leaking in the car and the clutch rod was not contacting the master cylinder correctly. Even so clutch has double the pedal pressure and wouldn't disengage when pressed to the floor. I did confirm that the slave is pushing the clutch fork which appears to be the correct amount of throw. It may just be and adjustment issue, but since I am still on the original master, slave, clutch line, fluid, and pedal , I will be replacing the master/slave, adding a stainless clutch line, and bleeding with new fluid before I dig into the issue further.
I found a lot of play on the pedal pivot bushings was enough to stop my clutch working a while back ...................
I had a puddle of brake fluid under my clutch pedal. I have my new master/slave coming in today. I will try installing those and see how it all goes. Will try a new pedal next. Hope the tranny doesn't have to come down since I installed the discs in the correct order and I don't see how anything could have been installed incorrectly. Really hope there isn't a manufacturing defect with the clutch, but I don't wanna get ahead of myself.
Update: Installed a new master and slave, and bled like 5x with a vacuum pump. I am still getting double the pedal pressure which could be normal given the clutch is rated for 800 lb/tq, but it still will not disengage. I have the pedal adjusted all the way out and am getting max throw. I can see the clutch fork moving like 3/4 of an inch smashing the TOB into the pressure plate. With the clutch all the way in I can't get the car to roll so it is not disengaging enough. I have a stainless steel line coming in hopes that it may give me just a few more mm in hopes that will be enough. If this doesn't work, it looks like I will have to pull it apart for inspection. I made sure that I installed all the plates in order and correct direction and I aligned the pressure plate to the flywheel and bolted everything to spec. Not sure what the problem is and this is my 6 or 7th clutch installation and iv'e never had an issue before...
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 11-20-2018 at 07:15 PM.
Update: took it back apart, plates were in correct order. BUT, pilot bearing had some damage on it likely from the install which likely was causing the output shaft to lock onto the e-shaft. Removed the damaged pilot bearing using the bread trick and installed a extra one I had. I have the engine and transmission only a 0.5-.75 inches apart and cant seem to get the bell-housing to seat on the motor. Trying to thread the output shaft through the pressure plate, two discs, and the pilot bearing seems much more difficult than a standard single disc setup. This car has been giving me such headaches lately as nothing seems to want to go together.... I seriously need to get a lift.
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 11-22-2018 at 08:43 AM.
Update: Car is back together and is up and running. Moved the car around in the garage with the new clutch. Shockingly smooth engagement for two 7.25" sintered discs. No chatter yet. The pedal pressure is about double, but I need to adjust the clutch rod because I am overthrowing the master/slave since the engagement point is 3/4 of the way off the floor. Pedal pressure may go down once I get it adjusted properly. After running for 15 minutes I have one drop of oil I have to track down since I resealed the front cover and oil pan with Toyota FIP Black. Hopefully a fitting only needs to be tightened. I also am removing my oil temp gauge and putting in a EGT gauge. I ended up putting the probe about 2 inches from the front PPort. Due to my manifold design, it was easier to install on the front. When I bought the junk engine, the front rotor was blown, and when I blew a piece of apex seal off it was also in the front rotor so why not. I also keep blasting vacuum caps off of the UIM, which is causing small vacuum leaks. I am now just using a piece of hose running from one port to another to seal it up. Car is idling at 1,400-1,500 RPMs and vacuum is 12-13". Still have to do some finishing details and should be able to give a full review of the Spec Mini Twin Disc D-Trim for the rx8....
Put about 50 miles on the car today. Engagement is smooth, no chattering, and slips into gear real nice. There is about a half-inch or inch of travel on the clutch from full off to full on. You have to be careful to release the clutch just right. Don't release high enough and the car just sits there. Release too high and the car jumps forward and will likely stall. Way smoother than the 6 puck clutch, but harder to hit that sweet spot. After some adjustment, pedal pressure still seems about 50% more than stock, which is fine since the rx8 clutch from factory is super light. Only stalled it once getting used to the engagement point. By the way the car jumped after letting out a tad quick gives you the feeling that this will hold some serious power. With the clutch in I get the normal multi-disc clutch noise, but it is not loud at all (sounds like a vibrating symbol instrument, not like rocks bouncing around in the bell-housing like the Supras have). On about 10-15% of the times I shift the car I get a bit of squeal, but this seems to happen most on downshifts and shifting into high gear without many RPMs. All in all I believe I will be able to slip the car into gear at the track without too much trouble and it should be able to hold all that torque that a 13b will produce. I also can't get the EGT to get a signal from the probe, but I had to extend the harness and it was shielded so I will have to call Prosport to see what they think.
So for a run down of the changes to the car.
New Master Cylinder (replaced original)
New Slave Cylinder (replaced original)
New clutch fluid (replaced original)
New Serpentine and AC belts (replaced original)
Resealed the front cover and oil pan with Toyota FIP Black
Welded EGT bung in manifold (2" from PPort) with EGT gauge (to replace oil temp)
Found a small exhaust leak on the down-pipe and re-welded
Rear Counterweight for FD
SPEC Steel Flywheel
SPEC Twin Disc (D-Trim) - 800 lb/tq rated
Oil change - 10w-40
Flushed coolant
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 12-03-2018 at 06:58 AM.
Fixed the EGT gauge. The harness was faulty the way it came. Found a bad spot in the wire with a ohm meter and re-soldered.
The EGT probe is mounted literally 2 inches from the front PPort. Was seeing about 800F (12.5-13:1 AF, 1,500 RPMs, 20 Leading) on startup idle. 1,300-1,600F cruising around at 14.5-15:1 A/F, 32 Leading (need to richen it up a point to bring those down). After the car was warmed up, I was seeing a 1,200F idle (13:1 AF).... Its wet outside so no power pulls.
Last edited by strokercharged95gt; 12-03-2018 at 06:38 PM.
Wow, I see 1,100 just at idle and 1600-1700 crusin
Those values were on E50 fuel so they'd likely be higher if I were on 93. Once this front passes and it dries out I will get to see what EGTs I get with E50 and water/meth injection.
10-31-2018, 10:44 AM
I actually lost mph from the 1/8th to the 1/4 mile.... You can see how fucked I was as I passed the 1/8th mile traps at the 0:22 second mark, clutch was already gone
I ended up going with a SPEC D-Trim Mini Twin Clutch that has a torque capacity of 800lb/tq and should have more than I ever need. Last time I had my flywheel resurfaced the machine shop told me that it could not be resurfaced anymore since the bottom step was nearly cutting into the ring gear. So the cost of the Stage 5 clutch and new flywheel was already 80% of the way to a twin disc setup. I will probably being pulling the car apart this weekend and hopefully be installing the new clutch the weekend after. I would like to get it all broken in before I head back the the track for redemption.
, I will be replacing the master/slave, adding a stainless clutch line, and bleeding with new fluid before I dig into the issue further.
Moved the car around in the garage with the new clutch. Shockingly smooth engagement for two 7.25" sintered discs. No chatter yet. The pedal pressure is about double, but I need to adjust the clutch rod because I am overthrowing the master/slave since the engagement point is 3/4 of the way off the floor. Pedal pressure may go down once I get it adjusted properly. After running for 15 minutes I have one drop of oil I have to track down since I resealed the front cover and oil pan with Toyota FIP Black. Hopefully a fitting only needs to be tightened. I also am removing my oil temp gauge and putting in a EGT gauge. I ended up putting the probe about 2 inches from the front PPort. Due to my manifold design, it was easier to install on the front. When I bought the junk engine, the front rotor was blown, and when I blew a piece of apex seal off it was also in the front rotor so why not. I also keep blasting vacuum caps off of the UIM, which is causing small vacuum leaks. I am now just using a piece of hose running from one port to another to seal it up. Car is idling at 1,400-1,500 RPMs and vacuum is 12-13". Still have to do some finishing details and should be able to give a full review of the Spec Mini Twin Disc D-Trim for the rx8....
