How is your new water pump going ?
06-10-2007, 03:58 PM
#76
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Paul, enjoyed meeting with you. Thanks for pulling the part I needed. I want the water pump as soon as you have it available. There are three straights on two different road courses that this will definately come into play and I want it installed. CMP coming up will not be an issue but Road Atlanta in August will and I hope to have it by then.
06-11-2007, 08:57 AM
#77
Paul, enjoyed meeting with you. Thanks for pulling the part I needed. I want the water pump as soon as you have it available. There are three straights on two different road courses that this will definately come into play and I want it installed. CMP coming up will not be an issue but Road Atlanta in August will and I hope to have it by then.
Paul.
06-12-2007, 10:52 AM
#80
count me in also Paul. Please advise people to also get a system --any kind they want--to activate the cooling fan on the radiator at 180F. the airflow through the rad without the fans assist is terrible. You also have a good bit of blockage behind the rad. i am actually thinking about getting rid of the RB intake--going with a mazdaspeed (aem) so i can free up some of that blockage. havent made up my mind yet.
olddragger
olddragger
06-12-2007, 11:00 AM
#81
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Paul: count me in as well. 
06-13-2007, 08:20 AM
#82
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I want this pump too! I mostly want too be explained on how it will work... Will there be an idler pulley in place of the water pump? Or will this new pump include a belt too cancel that out? I guess it'd be smartest too understand where the pump even is on the 8 first...
If you could just post directions on install as soon as you begin selling this product that'd be great!
If you could just post directions on install as soon as you begin selling this product that'd be great!
06-13-2007, 06:20 PM
#84
Warning!!!
I want this pump too! I mostly want too be explained on how it will work... Will there be an idler pulley in place of the water pump? Or will this new pump include a belt too cancel that out? I guess it'd be smartest too understand where the pump even is on the 8 first...
If you could just post directions on install as soon as you begin selling this product that'd be great!
If you could just post directions on install as soon as you begin selling this product that'd be great!
I look forward to serving you in terms of this pump but I must warn you and others that the cooling system on this car is better avoided by the un-trained. You can install a superior part improperly and create a problem where there was very little or no problem to begin. Simple errors like not eliminating air pockets from the system or not tightening your belt properly or the wrong ratio of water to coolant/ antifreeze could be fatal to your motor. We will be accepting no liability for anything related to this pump and it's installation due to these and many other factors.
Rest assured that this is the finest in design and workmanship and well worth the price. Please don't attempt to cut costs at the expense of your engine.
Paul.
06-14-2007, 11:36 AM
#85
Keef,
I look forward to serving you in terms of this pump but I must warn you and others that the cooling system on this car is better avoided by the un-trained. You can install a superior part improperly and create a problem where there was very little or no problem to begin. Simple errors like not eliminating air pockets from the system or not tightening your belt properly or the wrong ratio of water to coolant/ antifreeze could be fatal to your motor. We will be accepting no liability for anything related to this pump and it's installation due to these and many other factors.
Rest assured that this is the finest in design and workmanship and well worth the price. Please don't attempt to cut costs at the expense of your engine.
Paul.
I look forward to serving you in terms of this pump but I must warn you and others that the cooling system on this car is better avoided by the un-trained. You can install a superior part improperly and create a problem where there was very little or no problem to begin. Simple errors like not eliminating air pockets from the system or not tightening your belt properly or the wrong ratio of water to coolant/ antifreeze could be fatal to your motor. We will be accepting no liability for anything related to this pump and it's installation due to these and many other factors.
Rest assured that this is the finest in design and workmanship and well worth the price. Please don't attempt to cut costs at the expense of your engine.
Paul.
YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Summer is commmmmmminnnnnnngggg I need some PUMPZ!
06-14-2007, 12:05 PM
#86
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The generated heat is not an issue.
Increased flow is. Will an improved OEM mechanical pump flow more than 20 gal/min at high RPM? Possibly.
Will it do that at idle? No.
All we care about is total flow. It is up to the other components of the system to deal with the heat.
Also, an electric water pump will, at peak, draw about 8 amps, which is significantly less than both fans on high. It is also WAY less power than a mechanical pump. We are going back and forth about 8 or 10 HP at peak that a mechanical may draw. Keep in mind, 8A is only 1/10 of a horsepower!
The "problem" with an electrical is packaging. As an OE pump replacement, it will require some interesting machining.
Increased flow is. Will an improved OEM mechanical pump flow more than 20 gal/min at high RPM? Possibly.
Will it do that at idle? No.
All we care about is total flow. It is up to the other components of the system to deal with the heat.
Also, an electric water pump will, at peak, draw about 8 amps, which is significantly less than both fans on high. It is also WAY less power than a mechanical pump. We are going back and forth about 8 or 10 HP at peak that a mechanical may draw. Keep in mind, 8A is only 1/10 of a horsepower!
The "problem" with an electrical is packaging. As an OE pump replacement, it will require some interesting machining.
A particular pump takes the same amount of power to spin at a particular flow no matter if its being driven by an engine, an electric motor, or a bunch of gerbils running in a gerbil wheel... if an electric pump is drawing 1/100 of the power of a mechanical pump at the same flow rate, its either a magical electric pump or a seriously shitty mechanical pump
06-14-2007, 12:07 PM
#87
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Paul,
Can't wait to see this thing. Will you be including insturctions or can I just take this to my local Rotary Shop? (Neptune Speed in HB)
Can't wait to see this thing. Will you be including insturctions or can I just take this to my local Rotary Shop? (Neptune Speed in HB)
06-14-2007, 12:10 PM
#88
Not relevant because:
1) An electrical pump runs at a constant speed - a mechanical increases speed as engine speed increases.
2) Power to drive a centrifugal pump increases by the square of the RPM.
A mechanical pump is a compromise because of the range of speeds at which it must run.
1) An electrical pump runs at a constant speed - a mechanical increases speed as engine speed increases.
2) Power to drive a centrifugal pump increases by the square of the RPM.
A mechanical pump is a compromise because of the range of speeds at which it must run.
A particular pump takes the same amount of power to spin at a particular flow no matter if its being driven by an engine, an electric motor, or a bunch of gerbils running in a gerbil wheel... if an electric pump is drawing 1/100 of the power of a mechanical pump at the same flow rate, its either a magical electric pump or a seriously shitty mechanical pump
06-14-2007, 12:12 PM
#89
the shit starter
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ya, I know I'm not that mechanically inclined... But I'm still addicted too wasting gas... I never really do that much work on my 8 anyway... I'd rather pay too know it was done correctly.... I let a mechanic do all the work on my car because it's probably pretty obvious that I don't understand 100% of how this is going too work out...
But I'm still very much looking forward too this modification!
Good luck Paul!
Edit: It's just like MM says it. The place I expect too see gains are in the higher RPM range because from my logical understanding our stock belt powered water pump would create the most strain on the engine up in that range... And if you don't have any form of UD pulley the stock water pump doesn't do anything past 7K anyway...
But I'm still very much looking forward too this modification!
Good luck Paul!
Edit: It's just like MM says it. The place I expect too see gains are in the higher RPM range because from my logical understanding our stock belt powered water pump would create the most strain on the engine up in that range... And if you don't have any form of UD pulley the stock water pump doesn't do anything past 7K anyway...
Last edited by Keef; 06-14-2007 at 12:19 PM.
06-14-2007, 12:23 PM
#90
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Not relevant because:
1) An electrical pump runs at a constant speed - a mechanical increases speed as engine speed increases.
2) Power to drive a centrifugal pump increases by the square of the RPM.
A mechanical pump is a compromise because of the range of speeds at which it must run.
1) An electrical pump runs at a constant speed - a mechanical increases speed as engine speed increases.
2) Power to drive a centrifugal pump increases by the square of the RPM.
A mechanical pump is a compromise because of the range of speeds at which it must run.
Somewhere along the line, the two pumps are going to be flowing the same amount and requiring the same power - the closer to redline those two cross the better the design of the mechanical pump.
if anything, an eletrical pump running at a fixed speed is always at full flow and therefore wasting power 95% of the time in a street car....
06-14-2007, 12:30 PM
#91
^ You are in a world of theory. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your position), real-world water pumps don't behave that way.
The designs do not overlap because of the difference between static and dynamic drive speeds.
Also, "the need for heat rejection" does not depend on RPM at all. It is a function of load and VE. After the torque peak, total heat added to the system starts to decrease.
The designs do not overlap because of the difference between static and dynamic drive speeds.
Also, "the need for heat rejection" does not depend on RPM at all. It is a function of load and VE. After the torque peak, total heat added to the system starts to decrease.
06-14-2007, 01:49 PM
#92
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^ You are in a world of theory. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your position), real-world water pumps don't behave that way.
The designs do not overlap because of the difference between static and dynamic drive speeds.
Also, "the need for heat rejection" does not depend on RPM at all. It is a function of load and VE. After the torque peak, total heat added to the system starts to decrease.
The designs do not overlap because of the difference between static and dynamic drive speeds.
Also, "the need for heat rejection" does not depend on RPM at all. It is a function of load and VE. After the torque peak, total heat added to the system starts to decrease.
06-14-2007, 03:47 PM
#94
Just throwing this in to the discussion .
If you monitor your coolant temps you will notice the temp go up very quickly if you do a redline through the gears run .
If you are holding at 6000rpm it does not have the same effect unless you are under load . ie going up a hill .
I am struggling to see the benefit of a pump that will improve flow unless the rest of the cooling system is overated for the current pump flow .
If you monitor your coolant temps you will notice the temp go up very quickly if you do a redline through the gears run .
If you are holding at 6000rpm it does not have the same effect unless you are under load . ie going up a hill .
I am struggling to see the benefit of a pump that will improve flow unless the rest of the cooling system is overated for the current pump flow .
Last edited by Brettus; 06-14-2007 at 03:56 PM.
06-14-2007, 03:52 PM
#95
Just throwing this in to the discussion .
If you monitor your coolant temps you will notice the temp go up very quickly if you do a redline through the gears run .
If you are holding at 6000rpm it does not have the same effect unless you are under load . ie going up a hill .
If you monitor your coolant temps you will notice the temp go up very quickly if you do a redline through the gears run .
If you are holding at 6000rpm it does not have the same effect unless you are under load . ie going up a hill .
06-14-2007, 04:19 PM
#99
Who elected you prez of the PFS?
I think you are the under-secretary. Or, maybe you are just under the secretary.
You'll have to survive a run-off vote against Mark to be Prez.
How about you do that?
I already know the outcome (having already done it on dozens of different cars over the years) and I don't have to prove anything. You do, however.
I think you are the under-secretary. Or, maybe you are just under the secretary.
You'll have to survive a run-off vote against Mark to be Prez.
How about you do that?
I already know the outcome (having already done it on dozens of different cars over the years) and I don't have to prove anything. You do, however.
06-14-2007, 04:20 PM
#100
Wasn't the catch that the stock pump will cavitate at high RPMS? This is where the inlet pressure drops to a point that the water boils and your water pump is moving a mixture of water and steam. This lowers the coolant mass flow leading to decreased cooling. The cavitation point is decided by pump rpm and coolant temperature. Coolant temperature is load based. So, you run your car hard at high RPMS and your hot coolant starts to cavitate at the pump, decreasing your cooling and overheating your engine.
I haven't really looked into the issue, but this is what I believed the problem to be. A redesigned pump could change the cavitation point and avoid the issue.
Redesigning the rest of the cooling system for better rejection would be a different issue.
I haven't really looked into the issue, but this is what I believed the problem to be. A redesigned pump could change the cavitation point and avoid the issue.
Redesigning the rest of the cooling system for better rejection would be a different issue.