PerSmitt

I don't know exactly what the rule is. When I saw the replay the safety car had not passed the white line (the one that must not be crossed). So Hamilton did not actually overtake the safety car as much as just driving on the track as it was exiting the pit lane.

It will be interesting to hear all about it in interviews later. I doubt this discussion will end here. I don't see the move of passing the safety car there as so horrible and that Hamilton is an *** for doing so.It was not like he actively overtook it out on the track. But then again I'm a fanboi

The way I see it is that the race stewards disagreed with what Hamilton did, gave him a penalty and thats it.

PerSmitt

Ouch, a LOT of cars will be investigated after the race for speeding when the safetycar was on the way out. Everyone was hurrying in to the pit lane.

5 cars of them are ahead of Alonso which means that Alonso could pop 5 positions ahead after the race.

bse50

I sincerely don't know. The real problem is that the safety car shouldn't enter mid-pack. It should either enter before the first OR after 1 lap (there was no real danger at the moment).
Now there are 5 cars investigated in front of alonso for a similar reason. Alonso could be virtually 3rd.
In this case i'd say that this is just an excuse because of ferrari's political power to put him back 3rd. This could also shut down the comments about unfair advantages etc... i hate it!

PerSmitt

Not to nit pick but Alonso is 9th at the moment so he is virtually 4th.

I don't think it is politics behind this. There was a LOT of pit activity just when the SC came out. And this rule is very simple. When SC comes out there is a minimum time that cars are not allowed to drive faster than.

If they drive faster than this time they get 25 seconds added post race. I don't think you have to worry about Ferrari politics here my friend

Oh and damn nice drive from Kobayashi. He has to pit still but he is running for points.

bse50

Kobayashi still has to enter the pit lane

PerSmitt

Yep but add 25 seconds (for a pit stop) to his time and he is still in top 10. Looks really good so far.

Damn good race!

bse50

He's my favorite kamikaze
What's this Schumacher pulling fast laps? He's not that old, lol.

PerSmitt

And now Button answers!

Question is, will Vettel try to beat them both?

bse50

That's what I like about Alonso, even if there are cars investigated he is still trying to kick butts!
Kobayashi is insane!

PerSmitt

And Kobayashi strikes!

PerSmitt

And again!

bse50

Now we know that he's just got bad luck but he's got some skills and tricks to pull!
Fresh tires surely helped but he's really able to sting well!

PerSmitt

And agreed Alonso always fights. I really respect him for being such a fighter. Second place is not an acceptable outcome.

Same with Hamilton and Vettel too. Vettel is so angry for a second place. And we remember Hamilton in P2 chasing Button and crashing out when there was one lap left.

PerSmitt

Agreed to 100%.

He might not be the most stable driver, but he is really dangerous if he has a slight advantage since he will always go for it.

bse50

Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso are the real drivers out there. You may or may not like them individually but they are the ones going for that last passing attempt.
Button and Webber are more of an endurance type of driver, Massa is just so unlucky that you can't define him but I do like when he starts acting like the mad one
Hamilton should apologize anyway, this would make him look like a good person.
Anyway McLaren is complaining about the penalty, LOL. They just said that they could have won easily without that penalty and that it penalized them badly. What a bunch of ********! 2nd instead of 9th is a disadvantage? What a platoon of douchebags they are!
They may have good cars but are surely not good persons. Sorry to say that.

alfy28

I would read your post BSe50, but fox is airing it after the race has been done. so right now we are on lap 8. once the race is done ill read your post.

PerSmitt

Definitely. But I understand why Hamilton does not remember too much about the incident. To him it was a 1 second incident throughout a very heavy race. We get to see replay after replay and think about what has happened where as Hamilton needs to focus on driving fast.

Did they really do that?! That is really illogical considering how hard it is to pass on this circuit. And Vettel had plenty of speed. Once Hamilton caught up enough Vettel just drove faster and outran Hamilton.

I would believe such a statement "We could have won" is just bluster and showbiz. F1 is way too full of that. I guess that is what happens when you have money and sponsors involved.

alfy28

OMG take that ferrari, hamilton still in 2nd

alfy28

BSE you know we are buds, but for the last 3 years Ferrari has gotten away with murder couple of times. We was here arguing over the things they got away with, so all i want to say to ferrrari is, Pay back is a bitch.

alfy28

LMAO ferrari telling alonso to be very wise and cool. So pretty much they are saying, ALonso stop being such a cry baby and race. Btw i do think alonso is a awesome driver, just dont care for his him as a person.

alfy28

You know I wouldn't have so much hate for Ferrari this year if they didn't act so darn arrogant. especially with the new slower teams, I am not sure why they couldn't be like Redbull Renault and Mclaren and just race and stop worrying about the other slow teams.

LMAO Kobo just owned ALonso.

shaunv74

It looks like all the cars received 5 second penalties for speeding behind the safety car. I must say I need to read up on what the actual penalty was. If half the field is penalized for something it sounds like the rule is either unclear or creates strange situations where teams don't know they're breaking a rule or are breaking a rule because they are worried about losing positions against other teams in a safety car situation??

It seems like every other major motorsport has pretty clear rules pertaining to what you can do behind the safety car. They're usually much slower and designed to bunch up the field and pull them together in a single orderly line. Once the SC is out you can't pass and you should line up behind in an orderly fashion. I'm not sure how that translates in to position changes. As far as the pit lane ordering that rule sounds like cluster F. Every other sport lets them come in all at the same time and it's part of the race. Why does F1 make it so much more complicated to Pit!!!??

shaunv74

Reading some of the articles it looks like the cars not bunched up behind the safety car are given a sector time for each sector that they need to stay slower than as they catch up to the safety car. I guess this is in order to give teams enough time to pit and come out? I see the point of a safety car speed limit even if you're not directly behind them. Seems like they are trying to create a "no passing" rule for cars that are already in the pits during a SC...

Here is the actual reg:

40.7 All competing cars must then reduce speed and form up in line behind the safety car no more than ten car lengths apart. In order to ensure that drivers reduce speed sufficiently, from the time at which the “SAFETY CAR DEPLOYED” message is shown on the timing monitors until the time that each car crosses the first safety car line for the first time, drivers must stay above the minimum time set by the FIA ECU.
With the following exceptions, no car may overtake until it has passed the first safety car line for the first time when the safety car is returning to the pits. However, if the safety car is still deployed at the beginning of the last lap, or is deployed during the last lap, Article 40.13 will apply.
- if a car is signalled to do so from the safety car ;
- under 40.14 below ;
- any car entering the pits may pass another car or the safety car remaining on the track after it has crossed the first safety car line ;
- any car leaving the pits may be overtaken by another car on the track before it crosses the second safety car line ;
- when the safety car is returning to the pits it may be overtaken by cars on the track once it has crossed the first safety car line ;
- any car stopping in its designated garage area whilst the safety car is using the pit lane (see 40.10 below) may be overtaken ;
- if any car slows with an obvious problem.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

Nine drivers handed 5 second penalty
F1 Grand Prix, GP Europe, Valencia Street Circuiteu

The FIA have announced that nine Formula One drivers have been handed a five-second penalty for safety car rules breaches during the European Grand Prix. The penalties do not mean much change in the final race result, except for Alonso and Rosberg who both move up one place.

Jenson Button, Rubens Barrichello, Nico Hulkenberg, Robert Kubica, Vitaly Petrov, Adrian Sutil, Sebastien Buemi, Pedro de la Rosa and Vitantonio Liuzzi have been penalised.

It was found that during the safety car period at lap 15, they failed to stay above the mimnimum laptime set by the FIA ECU.

The stewards also announced a 20-second penalty for Virgin's Timo Glock for ignoring blue flags.

Updated results and standings

Results
Pos. Driver Team
1. Vettel Red Bull-Renault
2. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes
3. Button McLaren-Mercedes
4. Barrichello Williams-Cosworth
5. Kubica Renault
6. Sutil Force India-Mercedes
7. Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari
8. Alonso Ferrari
9. Buemi Toro Rosso-Ferrari
10. Rosberg Mercedes
11. Massa Ferrari
12. De la Rosa Sauber-Ferrari
13. Alguersuari Toro Rosso-Ferrari
14. Petrov Renault
15. Schumacher Mercedes
16. Liuzzi Force India-Mercedes
17. Di Grassi Virgin-Cosworth
18. Chandhok HRT-Cosworth
19. Glock Virgin-Cosworth
20. Senna HRT-Cosworth
21. Trulli Lotus-Cosworth

http://www.f1technical.net/news/1505...la+One+news%29

So no, the cars were not penalized for speeding. They were penalized for going too slow behind the safety car. The pits are open the whole time. This and the fact that he passed the safety car allowed Hammy to pit and released and not loose any positions.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

What is it when we hear it from Hammy? Same damn thing. It happens to all of them. I heard the radio transmission at the beginning of the race with Hammy whining about his car after he made a mistake and took out another car.