saturn

Listen, the whole "retard" comment wasn't supposed to be taken literally. I'm just trying to say that what you're saying seems overly complicated to the point of being unusable information. I'm starting to think you may mean well and that you truly believe everything you're saying. But you came across like you thought you were better than everyone else and there's plenty of statements in this thread that make me think that.

I personally think you could do very well to just chill out a little bit with the wordy language especially on this forum. Just an idea.

Cooder

Apparently you're not really a rotten apple, just a really dull one.

I never said that I think the RX8 can do well if a few things happen. No one else in here has said that. I and others simply hope it will survive. You may need to eat more of your apples and ginseng.

Come on, Dinh, let's stop this. Help me to help you put a stop to the damage you're doing to yourself. This is very unbecoming of the graduate degree you obtained in Economics and Sociology. I'm serious. I want to focus on the topic.

playdoh43

Cooder you need to take english 101. Using a few sophiscated words dosnt necessarily make an argument strong when the argument it self is a jumbled mess of silly claims. trying to look smart with such weak level of writing ability only serve to make a fool out of your self. any 8th grader can goto www.thesaurus.com and look up a few fancy words.

Besides... real smart people dosnt need to use fancy words to show that they are smart. Using a bunch of fancy words with so little to show for just comes across as fake and shallow and arrogant instead of smart. language is created to communicate between people so they can understand each other. your pathetic attempt to look smart manages to accomplish the opposite effect because you suck at communicating.

ex·plic·it Audio pronunciation of "explicit" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (k-splst)
adj.

1.
1. Fully and clearly expressed; leaving nothing implied.
2. Fully and clearly defined or formulated: “generalizations that are powerful, precise, and explicit” (Frederick Turner).

you have not been explicit at all, your fancy wording dosnt make your aruments explicit when you are using those fancy words to make retarded claims. you look like a fool to us. And just because Zoom havnt made any comments dosnt mean he dosnt think you sound retarded. thats just yet another example of your unfunded claims.

Instead of writing another 8 paragraph wall of text, how about you just think about what makes an argument effective and how to best communicate in a clear manner? Its great to be wordy, but when you are trying to wordy, at least try to say something meaningful instead of making your retarded claims.

StealthFox

cooder, im going to have to disagree with you now, ive read the majority of this thread, and you are just digging yourself a deeper hole. by overwhelming logic and common sense i need to agree with some of your protesters, all you're doing is making fuzzy points through large disorganized walls of jargon. in fact dnhx8 started off with his post saying "im not attacking you" and on his last line says something along the lines of "please dont type up an 8 paragraph response" and in the next post you give him exactly what he told you not to do(it was good advice too-to be more to the point and concise) and you just keep on typing up useless bandwidth wasting posts that are so long and disorganized even if you had something good to say, it wouldn't matter because its lost in your fuzzy logic and disorganization.

Cooder

Trust me, playdoh, zoom doesn't think I'm retarded. I am able to infer his intellectual level and he is able to infer mine. And I am able to infer that he is able to infer mine.

Playdoh, your post above is one of the best I have ever seen on this forum. I would like to print it out as a keeper. Oh my God, it's truly awesome!

But seriously, your points are all 100% valid and well taken. I will try to improve in the areas you point out.

Cooder

I see your point and must agree with you completely. I now realize that when other people attack me, I can not respond or at least can not respond with too many words.

zoom44

i dont know about my "level". i did a pretty good job of making an *** out of myself yesterday


Excellent point. I havent made a comment in support or against the "meat" of your position, Cooder. But neither have most. Most seem to be concerned about your delivery and not so much the message. Although i have to say that, in general, I understand what you'r saying ( i havent read every post) but dont agree with the starting point. I dont agree that the nissan coupes drive the segment. Im not even sure the RX-8 is in the same segment as the Nissan's.

Cooder

And this is where we can have a good discussion. Actually Zoom, some people have agreed with me on that point, that the 350Z/G35 drives the market segment. And the debate over what car is in what segment has been hashed enough on this forum. Even if the segments are not perfectly the same, you must agree there is perceptual overlap. Regardless, all this is up for a good healthy debate. Attacking my idea as retarded, which is what many people did, isn't a healthy debate. I just wanted to get some brainstorming and ideas going in this forum. Nothing in my initial post suggests my intent was to sucker people or pull them in and push it back in their faces. Some of these people consciously decided to start that up.

StealthFox

i'm extremely suprised you agree with me, its good to see you understand what light im bringing to the table, with that there is a miscommunication happening and i think more people would understand and side with you if you were clearer. i think because of the medium that we are debating on(an online forum) simple to the point messages are better because the more you type, the more your point is open to misinterpretation because of too many moving parts, like the simpler your car is the less goes wrong, ie honda civic, and the more moving parts you have ie. rx7 fd3s the more there is to go wrong.

playdoh43

that was sarcasm buddy

Japan8

Oh I don't know about that.

I don't personally consider the 350Z and RX-8 competiton... a 2 seater and a 4 seater... while both are sports cars and some enthusiasts would cross-shop them... I wouldn't. I don't do two seaters. That same kind of thing would apply to the general public for various reasons as well. As for the G35c... it is both more expensive and is a "luxury" sports car competing with BMW, Audi, Lexus, stc.

While the 350Z/G35 may not be (is not likely) the driving force in the sports car market, I will say that the idea that the overal market trend helps to carry along the RX-8 and makes a case for Mazda having a product to offer in that market segment (even if it is not a big seller... that is just reason to redesign or market better).

Ike

Cooder, your circuitous ramblings are fraught with fallacy. With each passing post, the ubiquitous crazy that befouls your psyche becomes more and more evident. Big words, yet you and everyone else here understands what I just said, that would be the difference in our discourse. Mine also isn't painfully drab to read, but I digress.

I've come across your kind many times before, simply because you use some big words does not make your argument any more valid, nor does it make your intellect any greater. In order to have your vocabularly mean anything you must be able to present a proper argument. One with facts to back up it, one that is both clear and concise, you fail on all counts. Simply because someone agreed with you at some point in this thread does not make your argument any more valid or cogent. Simply stating something is true because it's true does not make it so. You are a legend in your own mind, a hero of community college lounges and philosophy 101 students everywhere.

You are not the misunderstood genius you fancy yourself to be, you're the poor soul that worries about sounding smart moreso than being smart. Do yourself a favor and take a logic course, if you can ever grasp it then come see me. Til then, sell crazy some place else, we're all full up here.

"Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feeling for the strength of their argument. The heated mind resents the chill touch and relentless scrutiny of logic."

William E. Gladstone

Cooder

You know what they say about people who quote famous people? Unfortunately for you Ike, you had to run into me. Every response I make to your posts makes your heart jump and makes you angrier and more jealous. Your first few posts are all anyone has to read to recognize you have lost the debate. Without a doubt. Your obfuscation didn't succeed in obfuscating.

I encourage any person new to this thread to just go over Ike's first few posts. That's all it will take.

Ike

I'm not angry nor jeaous, what possible reason would I have to be either? Thank you for yet another fallacy laced response, and for making my quote all the more appropriate.

Cooder

Hey, I've just reviewed the entire first page where I have 7 posts. I can't see any bit of arrogance or pretentiousness in any of the posts. All I see is a genuine effort to present an intriguing idea and, after that, a genuine attempt to address responses with a lot of effort. My responses contain no hint of superiority or arrogance. I'm totally focused on the topics.

The only oddball there is Ike's post. What a surprise. Even then you could sense his personality disorder was going to lead him past the point of no return. Who would imagination, including himself, that the idea that he is intelligent would be so quickly and definitively lost?

StealthFox

haha, he is Ike, he always wins arguements he usually means well though even when he is a jackass(which is about 75% of the time)

i agree he did come off harsh and mildy offensive at first but he has a lot of valid points.

Ike

Yes, who would imagination that!

Ike

I came off harsh because I knew exactly who I was dealing with, the same nutjob I've been dealing with on these forums for countless months. The name may have changed, but the wearisomely verbose presentation was distinctly familiar. Look at me, I can use big words!

Cooder

Again, I would encourage you to reread every post I made on the front page. There's no fatal flaw in the thinking or the personality. The wordiness is from a genuine attempt to describe an idea fully so that it would not be misinterpreted.

As most people in this forum know, your quote fits yourself perfectly. You are unable to maintain attention on the topic because of your personal resentment, which you confuse with reason. You do this to everyone, but you especially lose your senses with me, probably because unconsciously you know the mountain you face is insurmountable, at least for you. Your insane rigidity with the RX8-only economics as the only possibility not only clearly reveals your incompetence to even the simplest observer but also betrays the degree of intellectual fear you have for me.

Ike

I would rather gouge my eyes out with a spork than have to read your posts more than once. They're painfully obtuse thoughts with an excessive amount of drivel. As for the rest of your post, I can't get the image of Mike Tyson telling me his style is impetuous out of my head.


P.S. As I've pointed out to you many times in the past, repeating the same thing over and over again does not make what you say any more true.

Cooder

So you think my intent is to repeat everything over and over? Of course you don't. What you see is a genuine attempt by me to re-illustrate my position in response to subsequent posts. That is my only intent.

I have now reviewed the entire first 4 pages and I've found nothing arrogant or pretentious aside from your posts. Absolutely nothing questionable about my personality. Only a genuine effort to focus on the topic.

Throughout the thread, I see attempt after attempt by you to create trouble, to attack me personally.

Some naive members have even followed your "lead" with critical posts whose whole reasoning is basically that if I weren't so wordy, then people wouldn't think my ideas were retarded.

All this negativity because I'm wordy?

Ike

Not because you're wordy, because you fail to make strong arguments yet you ramble on anyhow. Being wordy while you ramble just makes your posts more annoying. Off to bed, I'll read whatever thoughts you decide to repeat tomorrow.

Iceis8

you guys are still going at it. Close this thread already its not going any where.

Cooder

Obviously, this is not true. I have indeed made strong arguments. There is nothing do or die about what I have said. I don't overcommit and I'm not too narrow or too definitive. There really is not too much that is controversial in what I said.

I believe that your rambling succeeded in riling up some people who didn't know better. And that's all you succeeded in doing. Your simplistic tunnel vision on RX8-only economics as the only possibility is dumb. I am certain you do not continue to believe that's the only factor Mazda is considering. You continue on this slant solely because you don't want to concede anything to me, not because of sound reasoning but because of stubborn, blind ego. Think about this one. Read the posts on page 1 and 2 and you will see every person basically agreeing with my position and no one agreeing with your position. However, that doesn't mean you're wrong; you could actually be the only correct person. Until one absorbs all our positions and realizes that it does make sense, that there could be many factors deciding whether the RX8 continues. Thus, the only explanation to your strangely stubborn position is that I really got to your head. Clearly, you are afraid of me and my intellect. Why wouldn't you adjust your rigid stance just a little and concede that all those peoples' ideas couldn't be totally wrong?

Not a single other person has reiterated your strangely narrow position. Many people have provided slants that are consistent with my premise. Even many of the ones that try to state some fault or qualification with what I said then proceed to agree with my basic premise that the RX8 doesn't have to necessarily sell well to continue. Certainly, your keen mind didn't miss that? Shall I list every single one of them for you? Hey, can you find a single post that agreed with your idea that it's as simple as if the RX8 doesn't sell, it's gone?

Once again, very early on, you lost this debate, and you know it. The hilarious distractor about the Nissan ads really made you regret your actions there. This topic really knocked you off kilter, as you had no idea I could come back with so much detail. So that's 0 for 2, Ike. And you know it. Everyone in here knows it.

When are you going to beat me in a debate, Ike? Just once, offer some sort of real challenge. I'm waiting for the Ike that puts so many other members in their place and gloats about it, prancing around the forum like an Olympic gold medal ice dancer. It appears however, with me, you just end up huffing and puffing.

Work on the intellect, Ike. Then come back and challenge me again. I'm frankly getting a little annoyed and bored because it seems you have a memory problem. Fortunately, every single post is archived here for everyone to witness. You lost your argument in the first two pages, my jealous friend.

Cooder

You must be a politician in training. I just had an ingenious idea. I have a very logical proposition for you, my stellar friend.

(1) Provide evidence that the ONLY factor (for Mazda) whether or not the RX8 continues is if it sells.

(2) List down every single point I make that is weak and explain why it's weak.

See, Ike, this is a controlled experiment, in a sense. Do you see the elegance and logic of such a controlled debate "forum"? I'm sure you do. You won't be able to wiggle.

Ok, you're up to bat. Remember, you can only bat for one team. What's cool is you may refute my statements or support your own statements by citing/quoting other peoples' posts in this very thread! We already have so many posts, which, it occurred to me, are almost like citable reearch articles.

In such a controlled environment, it won't take long, believe me. Hopefully you got a good night's sleep when you wake up and see this so your heart won't jump out of your chest.

You do understand how it would look to the other members if you ran away from the debate challenge, right? I know you won't run away because you are confident in your intellect and the reasoning behind your position.