Critical parallel/symbiotic relationship b/ Nissan & Mazda = RX8's/rotary's survival
02-21-2006, 01:46 AM
#76
i pwn therefore i am
I am so mad that I just read this thread. Cooder, I will never forgive you for this. You insane ramblings are just an amalgamation of crap that is based in nothing but guesswork and trying to sound smart. Nothing you say can be proven because you just make these ridiculous claims like "the rotary could have been sent back into oblivion sooner if it hadn't of been for the 350Z". What kind of statement is that? It doesn't serve to do anything at all. You can't prove or disprove something like that.
You remind me of that dude in Good Will Hunting at the bar with the blonde hair who tries to impress the two girls by sounding all complicated. If you really care about this stuff, consolidate it down so that it fits into this setting. Maybe even go as far as to help someone with some useful information or personal experiences about the RX-8.
You remind me of that dude in Good Will Hunting at the bar with the blonde hair who tries to impress the two girls by sounding all complicated. If you really care about this stuff, consolidate it down so that it fits into this setting. Maybe even go as far as to help someone with some useful information or personal experiences about the RX-8.
02-21-2006, 02:13 AM
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im just saying man, everyones entittled to their own oppinions. i might agree or i might not agree.. but when you debate over a topic, you want to send clear, concise and strong arguments. typing great walls of texts where youre just going all over the place dosnt make your argument strong. we dont even know what hes arguing about anymore.
I agree with cooder on his original post that rx8 will probably continue into next gen due to the healthy market segment - that dosnt justify all the other crazy ideas hes throwing around though.... And i agree with Ike's idea that if 350z/G35 didnt exist rx8 would probably sell more. makes sense. (Its not news that Ike can be rude sometimes.) Thats where it started to fall apart as cooder starts to talk about crazy stuff and make all kinds of claims... whatever good strong arguments he had just gets lost in the sea of jumbled ideas.
Then when u mix all that with personal attacks, the whole debate just becomes stupid.
I agree with cooder on his original post that rx8 will probably continue into next gen due to the healthy market segment - that dosnt justify all the other crazy ideas hes throwing around though.... And i agree with Ike's idea that if 350z/G35 didnt exist rx8 would probably sell more. makes sense. (Its not news that Ike can be rude sometimes.) Thats where it started to fall apart as cooder starts to talk about crazy stuff and make all kinds of claims... whatever good strong arguments he had just gets lost in the sea of jumbled ideas.
Then when u mix all that with personal attacks, the whole debate just becomes stupid.
02-21-2006, 01:51 PM
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To the original poster: "too long, didn't read"
but I did skim a little, and I think these are his points (?)
1) The RX-8 is a sort of "halo model" for the Mazda brand, as they say in the car biz, which buoys the value of the Mazda name. I think this is somewhat true. Without the RX-8 and Miata, you've got lots of restyled Fords. (The RX-8 not such an overpowering halo that they can afford to lose money on it though.)
2) The 350Z/G35 siblings are a halo model for the market segment as a whole, rubbing off even on non-Nissan brands of sporty cars. That's pure rubbish, of course.
People would still have a desire for cheap sports cars even if none were being produced. People still desired muscle cars, even though they were basically extinct from 1973~1993 or so. Millions of people strongly desire affordable antigravity hovercars, even though the market segment doesn't even exist yet.
but I did skim a little, and I think these are his points (?)
1) The RX-8 is a sort of "halo model" for the Mazda brand, as they say in the car biz, which buoys the value of the Mazda name. I think this is somewhat true. Without the RX-8 and Miata, you've got lots of restyled Fords. (The RX-8 not such an overpowering halo that they can afford to lose money on it though.)
2) The 350Z/G35 siblings are a halo model for the market segment as a whole, rubbing off even on non-Nissan brands of sporty cars. That's pure rubbish, of course.
People would still have a desire for cheap sports cars even if none were being produced. People still desired muscle cars, even though they were basically extinct from 1973~1993 or so. Millions of people strongly desire affordable antigravity hovercars, even though the market segment doesn't even exist yet.
02-21-2006, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by saturn
You remind me of that dude in Good Will Hunting at the bar with the blonde hair who tries to impress the two girls by sounding all complicated. If you really care about this stuff, consolidate it down so that it fits into this setting. Maybe even go as far as to help someone with some useful information or personal experiences about the RX-8.
I'm confident that most of the people visiting this thread will recognize the sound reasoning in my proposal. They will also recognize that what I propose is not designed to go against what Ike says but actually incorporates what he says. I firmly believe Ike has come to recognize this as well. To continue to strike my proposal down so definitively and absolutely is very dumb. So why does he do it? The answer is jealousy and ego and a penchant for Broadway center stage.
02-21-2006, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by BaronVonBigmeat
To the original poster: "too long, didn't read"
but I did skim a little, and I think these are his points (?)
1) The RX-8 is a sort of "halo model" for the Mazda brand, as they say in the car biz, which buoys the value of the Mazda name. I think this is somewhat true. Without the RX-8 and Miata, you've got lots of restyled Fords. (The RX-8 not such an overpowering halo that they can afford to lose money on it though.)
2) The 350Z/G35 siblings are a halo model for the market segment as a whole, rubbing off even on non-Nissan brands of sporty cars. That's pure rubbish, of course.
People would still have a desire for cheap sports cars even if none were being produced. People still desired muscle cars, even though they were basically extinct from 1973~1993 or so. Millions of people strongly desire affordable antigravity hovercars, even though the market segment doesn't even exist yet.
but I did skim a little, and I think these are his points (?)
1) The RX-8 is a sort of "halo model" for the Mazda brand, as they say in the car biz, which buoys the value of the Mazda name. I think this is somewhat true. Without the RX-8 and Miata, you've got lots of restyled Fords. (The RX-8 not such an overpowering halo that they can afford to lose money on it though.)
2) The 350Z/G35 siblings are a halo model for the market segment as a whole, rubbing off even on non-Nissan brands of sporty cars. That's pure rubbish, of course.
People would still have a desire for cheap sports cars even if none were being produced. People still desired muscle cars, even though they were basically extinct from 1973~1993 or so. Millions of people strongly desire affordable antigravity hovercars, even though the market segment doesn't even exist yet.
I feel like you do in your first point. I'm crossing my fingers that Mazda will decide that the Miata is not a strong enough icon on its own and might need the RX8 to assist it, even though the RX8 sales are dropping steeply. A two-car icon tag team has not been seen before and I believe the concept is interesting. And even if the RX8 gets axed, I know Mazda has been considering this. Just because it hasn't been done before is no reason to strike the idea down completely and call me insane. I'm just hoping; I've made no definitive statements. Nissan's idea of a two-pronged attack using the Altima/Maxima tag team was not seen before either and is now seen as ingenious. Before that concept, no car was able to take away even a small piece of the Accord-Camry-Taurus monopoly. And as we know, the Altima became the star while the Maxima has been lackluster. But can you now backward deduce that the Maxima is just dead weight and they should have just replaced the Maxima with the Altima from the beginning? Although this conclusion may appear to be so simple and sound, it can not be made. The Maxima may have been critical to the Altima's success. Just step foot on a Nissan dealership and watch how the salespeople work the Altima/Maxima combo relentlessly into your brain. Watch how they work that double-edged concept to strike the Accord and Camry down. Although difficult to prove, there are reasons to believe the Maxima is integral to the Altima's marketing and sales outcomes. The anecdotal observation I gave is just one of those reasons. Plenty of shampoo and toothpaste and snack companies put out a variety of products in the same category. Should they highlight only their top icon product, spread the attention across multiple products, bring out new products to see if one rises to the top and becomes a new icon, or even use new products to bring back the luster of an aging icon? Carmakers are now using these models to think outside the box.
And it is fair to disagree with me on the second point. I'm more focused on the ability of the 305Z/G35 to keep the segment in the awareness of even average conservative adults (the mainstream customers) and drive the market segment longer than it would last without the Nissan combo even in the face of negative market forces. In an earlier post, I mentioned that none of the icons back in the 90's (RX7, 300ZX, Supra) was able to do that back then and thus all three went by the wayside in the face of negative market forces. You mentioned sports cars being extinct for a period of time even though consumers wanted them. Thus, it is a two-way street, because the manufacturers have to give the green light. Both sides of this equation are, in my opinion, more likely to continue because of the incredible success of the 350Z/G35.
What you do is fair and promotes the discussion.
Last edited by Cooder; 02-21-2006 at 02:31 PM.
02-21-2006, 02:16 PM
#82
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The problem with the RX-7, 300ZX, and Supra was that they required turbos to make impressive power, which means big money that people didn't want to pay. The market was there all along (as the S2000, RX-8, and 350Z have proven); the car companies simply misjudged people's expectations on price/performance.
So basically I would argue that advancing technology has brought us this new crop of sports cars. First, they figured out how to build sports cars in a heavily regulated era (1973-onward), then they figured out how to make decent power without the expense of turbos in more recent years. It's like plasma TV's. Six years ago, $15,000...no one cares. Now, a 42" can be had under $2k. Technology brought the price down, but consumer demand was there all along.
So basically I would argue that advancing technology has brought us this new crop of sports cars. First, they figured out how to build sports cars in a heavily regulated era (1973-onward), then they figured out how to make decent power without the expense of turbos in more recent years. It's like plasma TV's. Six years ago, $15,000...no one cares. Now, a 42" can be had under $2k. Technology brought the price down, but consumer demand was there all along.
Last edited by BaronVonBigmeat; 02-21-2006 at 02:22 PM.
02-21-2006, 02:41 PM
#83
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You focus is on lowering price. Yet the Evo and WRX STI and RX8 are all in the same price category, yet none is doing close to the success of the 350Z/G35. Where would this market segment be with only the Evo, WRX STI, and RX8? It would be low sales, low mainstream awareness. The 350Z/G35 is a social phenomenon. These cars are in the minds of even housewives. It's the driving force of the entire segment. Because of its success, this segment is now larger, more salient in the mainstream public's mind, and will probably remain healthy longer.
And of course, anyone can disagree with what I just said.
And of course, anyone can disagree with what I just said.
02-21-2006, 02:47 PM
#84
i pwn therefore i am
Originally Posted by Cooder
Good analogy, but you're a little bit off. I'm as close to Will as you'll ever find in real life. The blonde long-haired poser who likes to be the center of attention and doesn't know how average he is is Ike, without a doubt. You are Ben Affleck in the movie. Saturn, sometimes if you don't understand something, you may have to look at yourself.
I'm confident that most of the people visiting this thread will recognize the sound reasoning in my proposal. They will also recognize that what I propose is not designed to go against what Ike says but actually incorporates what he says. I firmly believe Ike has come to recognize this as well. To continue to strike my proposal down so definitively and absolutely is very dumb. So why does he do it? The answer is jealousy and ego and a penchant for Broadway center stage.
I'm confident that most of the people visiting this thread will recognize the sound reasoning in my proposal. They will also recognize that what I propose is not designed to go against what Ike says but actually incorporates what he says. I firmly believe Ike has come to recognize this as well. To continue to strike my proposal down so definitively and absolutely is very dumb. So why does he do it? The answer is jealousy and ego and a penchant for Broadway center stage.
I am all for discussing things just for the sake of discussing them, but your arguments are the ones soaked in ego and pretentiousness. You jumble all this stuff together and make so many claims that just have no basis in fact at all. Dammit, common sense is more than just some fallback mentality that inferior people use when they can't make logical arguments. You make no sense.
I really hope you are young. Because you're going to wake up one day and realize two things. One, don't do that. Two, you spent all this time trying to impress people into liking you that you coulda done for $4.50 at the local bar by buying someone a drink. Maybe your foster Dad beat you and that's why you turned out this way. But whatever it is, always remember, it's not your fault.
I don't know where you come from, but after the stuff you tried to pull on this forum, you'll bet I'll be checkin into it. You're suspect.
02-21-2006, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by saturn
The fact you compared yourself to a fictional character created for dramatic effect just confirms the fact you are trying to look smart. You have this victimized mentality of how the world perceives your awesome intellectual might and anyone who doesn't "get" you must be a moron who hasn't taken the time to find themselves.
I am all for discussing things just for the sake of discussing them, but your arguments are the ones soaked in ego and pretentiousness. You jumble all this stuff together and make so many claims that just have no basis in fact at all. Dammit, common sense is more than just some fallback mentality that inferior people use when they can't make logical arguments. You make no sense.
I really hope you are young. Because you're going to wake up one day and realize two things. One, don't do that. Two, you spent all this time trying to impress people into liking you that you coulda done for $4.50 at the local bar by buying someone a drink. Maybe your foster Dad beat you and that's why you turned out this way. But whatever it is, always remember, it's not your fault.
I don't know where you come from, but after the stuff you tried to pull on this forum, you'll bet I'll be checkin into it. You're suspect.
I am all for discussing things just for the sake of discussing them, but your arguments are the ones soaked in ego and pretentiousness. You jumble all this stuff together and make so many claims that just have no basis in fact at all. Dammit, common sense is more than just some fallback mentality that inferior people use when they can't make logical arguments. You make no sense.
I really hope you are young. Because you're going to wake up one day and realize two things. One, don't do that. Two, you spent all this time trying to impress people into liking you that you coulda done for $4.50 at the local bar by buying someone a drink. Maybe your foster Dad beat you and that's why you turned out this way. But whatever it is, always remember, it's not your fault.
I don't know where you come from, but after the stuff you tried to pull on this forum, you'll bet I'll be checkin into it. You're suspect.
And this brings the point back to Ike and you.
02-21-2006, 03:10 PM
#86
i pwn therefore i am
Originally Posted by Cooder
Your viewpoint here and in your last post tell much about you. You want to attack me because you're annoyed at my fluency with words. Why not just focus on the substance of what I say, which is not very controversial in the least. When I present those ideas, it was not to criticize or attack someone else.
And this brings the point back to Ike and you.
And this brings the point back to Ike and you.
Your main point seems to be that the 350Z is this revolution that has awakened the world to the $30k sports car. I think this is total crap. This desire has always been there as evidenced by the entire history of the automobile. Nissan may have done it sooner, better, smarter, and/or cheaper, but I've wanted a sports car since I knew what one was. So do millions of other people. That's why these things sell. The advent of the ~$30k sports car is just an evolution of what people want and what the industry is ready to support. This is just obvious. The fact that Mazda wants to make money, whether it be by selling lots of cars or maintaining a good image so that it can sell cars for years to come, they want to make money. Every person and company has a slightly different way of going about that and trying to make these qualitative statements about the effect of the 350Z on Mazda like it's something that can be proven is retarded.
Again, if you had just made your point without being such an *** I may have just tossed in my two cents. Don't mistake my not stating my opinion for lack of having one.
02-21-2006, 03:20 PM
#87
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Profit stalls at Nissan as its U.S. sales decline
By Kae Inoue Bloomberg News
THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 2, 2006
U.S. sales fell 7.1 percent, while those in Japan fell 18.8 percent in the period.
Current profit, or pretax profit from operations, fell 0.3 percent to ¥209.8 billion, the company said.
The chief executive, Carlos Ghosn, is depending on the release of 22 new models over the next two years to revive demand in Nissan's two largest markets, the United States and Japan.
By Kae Inoue Bloomberg News
THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 2, 2006
U.S. sales fell 7.1 percent, while those in Japan fell 18.8 percent in the period.
Current profit, or pretax profit from operations, fell 0.3 percent to ¥209.8 billion, the company said.
The chief executive, Carlos Ghosn, is depending on the release of 22 new models over the next two years to revive demand in Nissan's two largest markets, the United States and Japan.
Nissan Leads Decline in Japan's January Vehicle Sales (Update2)
Feb. 1 (Bloomberg)
Nissan's sales fell for the fourth consecutive month in January. The carmaker's sales growth tapered off after its introduction of the Tiida compact car and five other models between September 2004 and January 2005.
Feb. 1 (Bloomberg)
Nissan's sales fell for the fourth consecutive month in January. The carmaker's sales growth tapered off after its introduction of the Tiida compact car and five other models between September 2004 and January 2005.
Ford, DaimlerChrysler U.S. Sales Rise; Nissan Falls (Update4)
Feb. 1 (Bloomberg) -- Ford Motor Co. and DaimlerChrysler AG reported an unexpected increase in U.S. sales in January, while Nissan Motor Co. fell for the fourth straight month.
Feb. 1 (Bloomberg) -- Ford Motor Co. and DaimlerChrysler AG reported an unexpected increase in U.S. sales in January, while Nissan Motor Co. fell for the fourth straight month.
INFINITI DIVISION SALES
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Monthly
January January DSR CYTD CYTD CYTD DSR
---------------------------------------------------
2006 2005 % Change 2006 2005 % Change
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Infiniti Division
Total 8,057 8,713 -7.5 8,057 8,713 -7.5
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I35 0 411 -100.0 0 411 -100.0
----------------------------------------------------------------------
G35 Sedan 2,425 3,212 -24.5 2,425 3,212 -24.5
----------------------------------------------------------------------
G35 Coupe 1,518 1,661 -8.6 1,518 1,661 -8.6
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Monthly
January January DSR CYTD CYTD CYTD DSR
---------------------------------------------------
2006 2005 % Change 2006 2005 % Change
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nissan Division
Total 67,834 67,871 -0.1 67,834 67,871 -0.1
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sentra 9,807 8,177 19.9 9,807 8,177 19.9
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Altima 16,758 17,095 -2.0 16,758 17,095 -2.0
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maxima 4,895 5,704 -14.2 4,895 5,704 -14.2
----------------------------------------------------------------------
350Z 1,770 1,728 2.4 1,770 1,728 2.4
02-21-2006, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by saturn
The reason is because I feel like it's more beneficial to try and communicate the fact that you're coming across like a pompous *** than to discuss this topic. Feel free to disagree, but it was all meant to be helpful because I think you needed it. Also, I'm disappointed that you ignored my super clever GWH references. I'm funny dammit.
Your main point seems to be that the 350Z is this revolution that has awakened the world to the $30k sports car. I think this is total crap. This desire has always been there as evidenced by the entire history of the automobile. Nissan may have done it sooner, better, smarter, and/or cheaper, but I've wanted a sports car since I knew what one was. So do millions of other people. That's why these things sell. The advent of the ~$30k sports car is just an evolution of what people want and what the industry is ready to support. This is just obvious. The fact that Mazda wants to make money, whether it be by selling lots of cars or maintaining a good image so that it can sell cars for years to come, they want to make money. Every person and company has a slightly different way of going about that and trying to make these qualitative statements about the effect of the 350Z on Mazda like it's something that can be proven is retarded.
Again, if you had just made your point without being such an *** I may have just tossed in my two cents. Don't mistake my not stating my opinion for lack of having one.
Your main point seems to be that the 350Z is this revolution that has awakened the world to the $30k sports car. I think this is total crap. This desire has always been there as evidenced by the entire history of the automobile. Nissan may have done it sooner, better, smarter, and/or cheaper, but I've wanted a sports car since I knew what one was. So do millions of other people. That's why these things sell. The advent of the ~$30k sports car is just an evolution of what people want and what the industry is ready to support. This is just obvious. The fact that Mazda wants to make money, whether it be by selling lots of cars or maintaining a good image so that it can sell cars for years to come, they want to make money. Every person and company has a slightly different way of going about that and trying to make these qualitative statements about the effect of the 350Z on Mazda like it's something that can be proven is retarded.
Again, if you had just made your point without being such an *** I may have just tossed in my two cents. Don't mistake my not stating my opinion for lack of having one.
I also feel that many others will agree I was being attacked unfairly by Ike right off the bat. Thus, I have a right to respond, and I feel that I responded maturely. In addition, I feel that many others will agree that Ike's insistence on an all or nothing personal victory for RX8-only economics was stupid.
Nowhere was I being an ***. Actually, you were the *** when you came up with the Good Will Hunting metaphor, right? I took your metaphor and made some corrections but it's still your brainchild. Everyone who reads these posts will give you the credit, I assure you.
02-21-2006, 03:30 PM
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Zoom, the thing there is Nissan is not losing money. Their GROWTH or profits is just slowing down. I think they're still strong, especially with the advent of all those new models coming soon.
02-21-2006, 03:42 PM
#90
i pwn therefore i am
Originally Posted by Cooder
I feel that many others will agree that I wasn't pompous, not even in the first few posts. You may find me wordy but the proposal I make is intriguing, not retarded. You are young so let me tell you that the proposal I make is very compelling and can serve as a compelling economics Ph.D. dissertation topic. I believe other people of qualified educational background will agree. In such a dissertation, you will not have to prove anything; you will only have to find support for your position. There is so much to investigate in this thesis. It's a very worthwhile topic. Don't you see that?
I also feel that many others will agree I was being attacked unfairly by Ike right off the bat. Thus, I have a right to respond, and I feel that I responded maturely. In addition, I feel that many others will agree that Ike's insistence on an all or nothing personal victory for RX8-only economics was stupid.
Nowhere was I being an ***. Actually, you were the *** when you came up with the Good Will Hunting metaphor, right? I took your metaphor and made some corrections but it's still your brainchild. Everyone who reads these posts will give you the credit, I assure you.
I also feel that many others will agree I was being attacked unfairly by Ike right off the bat. Thus, I have a right to respond, and I feel that I responded maturely. In addition, I feel that many others will agree that Ike's insistence on an all or nothing personal victory for RX8-only economics was stupid.
Nowhere was I being an ***. Actually, you were the *** when you came up with the Good Will Hunting metaphor, right? I took your metaphor and made some corrections but it's still your brainchild. Everyone who reads these posts will give you the credit, I assure you.
I'm going to stay out of the middle of you and Ike. I wasn't really concerned with the way you responded to him.
I suppose I should amend my earlier statement about being an ***. You're going to come across a certain way to a lot of people. You can either accept that, disagree with it, or ignore it. But in the end it's all about what you're goal in this whole ordeal and life in general is. If it's an exercise in pontification then go for it. I don't know what your goal is so I suppose I can't really comment on whether or not you're succeeding at it. I sure hope you know because for my part it seems like you're trying to be overly complicated at the expense of others which makes you an ***.
02-21-2006, 03:47 PM
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Overcomplicated at the expense of others? You are clearly off the mark here.
My goal was stated early on. To give rotary enthusiasts like myself hope. I woke up that day (at the beginning of this thread) and I felt hopeful for the very first time about the survivability of the RX8 and rotary. Read the excitement in my tone in the first few posts. It's not about pontificating or proselytizing or instructing. That's something you need to analyze within yourself.
My goal was stated early on. To give rotary enthusiasts like myself hope. I woke up that day (at the beginning of this thread) and I felt hopeful for the very first time about the survivability of the RX8 and rotary. Read the excitement in my tone in the first few posts. It's not about pontificating or proselytizing or instructing. That's something you need to analyze within yourself.
02-21-2006, 03:48 PM
#92
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Originally Posted by BaronVonBigmeat
Without the RX-8 and Miata, you've got lots of restyled Fords. (The RX-8 not such an overpowering halo that they can afford to lose money on it though.)
MX-5 Mazda2 Mazda3 Mazda5 Mazda6 RX-8 upcoming CX-7 and CX-9 The new MPV.
Not one a re-badged Ford. Its the opposite really with Ford re-badging the 6 for their Fusion etc line and using the 6 platform to make the Ford Edge which is really just a CX-9. Ford just gets to deliver them first. they are all Mazda designed.
The tribute and truck we're the only Ford re-badges and Mazda wouldnt have them if Ford didnt twist the collective arm. In fact Tribute is dead now.
02-21-2006, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by zoom44
MX-5 Mazda2 Mazda3 Mazda5 Mazda6 RX-8 upcoming CX-7 and CX-9 The new MPV.
Not one a re-badged Ford. Its the opposite really with Ford re-badging the 6 for their Fusion etc line and using the 6 platform to make the Ford Edge which is really just a CX-9. Ford just gets to deliver them first. they are all Mazda designed.
The tribute and truck we're the only Ford re-badges and Mazda wouldnt have them if Ford didnt twist the collective arm. In fact Tribute is dead now.
Not one a re-badged Ford. Its the opposite really with Ford re-badging the 6 for their Fusion etc line and using the 6 platform to make the Ford Edge which is really just a CX-9. Ford just gets to deliver them first. they are all Mazda designed.
The tribute and truck we're the only Ford re-badges and Mazda wouldnt have them if Ford didnt twist the collective arm. In fact Tribute is dead now.
02-21-2006, 03:52 PM
#94
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Originally Posted by Cooder
You are young so let me tell you that the proposal I make is very compelling and can serve as a compelling economics Ph.D. dissertation topic. I believe other people of qualified educational background will agree.
THAT is pompous. Not an attack on you. You didnt think you have been and im just saying that looks like what people are picking up on.
02-21-2006, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by zoom44
THAT is pompous. Not an attack on you. You didnt think you have been and im just saying that looks like what people are picking up on.
The metaphor was funny but I even had to correct him there. The blonde long-haired dude was regurgitating other peoples' ideas. That's what Will was putting back in his face. Will said he didn't have any of his own ideas, which is exactly the opposite of what I've done in this thread.
02-21-2006, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by zoom44
MX-5 Mazda2 Mazda3 Mazda5 Mazda6 RX-8 upcoming CX-7 and CX-9 The new MPV.
Not one a re-badged Ford. Its the opposite really with Ford re-badging the 6 for their Fusion etc line and using the 6 platform to make the Ford Edge which is really just a CX-9. Ford just gets to deliver them first. they are all Mazda designed.
The tribute and truck we're the only Ford re-badges and Mazda wouldnt have them if Ford didnt twist the collective arm. In fact Tribute is dead now.
Not one a re-badged Ford. Its the opposite really with Ford re-badging the 6 for their Fusion etc line and using the 6 platform to make the Ford Edge which is really just a CX-9. Ford just gets to deliver them first. they are all Mazda designed.
The tribute and truck we're the only Ford re-badges and Mazda wouldnt have them if Ford didnt twist the collective arm. In fact Tribute is dead now.
02-21-2006, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Cooder
That's after his Good Will Hunting metaphor.
The metaphor was funny but I even had to correct him there. The blonde long-haired dude was regurgitating other peoples' ideas. That's what Will was putting back in his face. Will said he didn't have any of his own ideas, which is exactly the opposite of what I've done in this thread.
The metaphor was funny but I even had to correct him there. The blonde long-haired dude was regurgitating other peoples' ideas. That's what Will was putting back in his face. Will said he didn't have any of his own ideas, which is exactly the opposite of what I've done in this thread.
Im not attacking you, but I agree with Zoom. a lot of us think you look kind of silly. I have to disagree that you've brought anything new to the table. You've used fancy wording to pretty much say what a BAZILLION of us 8 owners kind of think- that the 8 willl do well.
Had you just said that, you'd be walking away with Apples, but instead you got nothin really but 8 pages of confusion. I studied Sociology and Economics at the graduate level, and I cringe upon the thought of this being a Thesis..
this is my opinion, and please don't give me a 8 paragraph response of more dinner party jargon.
Last edited by Dinhx8; 02-21-2006 at 05:11 PM.
02-21-2006, 05:34 PM
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Almost no one in here thinks the RX8 will do well. We simply want it to survive. So that will have to be a BAZILLION minus one less than a BAZILLION.
My discourse is not confusing in the least. There's just a lot of it. Look how concise my spiel in your quote is. Look also at post # 103. If you notice sometimes I'll be redundant within a single sentence. I do this on purpose because I know there are a ton of different levels of background on this forum. I have seen confusion time and time again because someone was not precise in his language and others misinterpreted. Look at the front brake DIY and the confusion it caused me because of imprecise language without enough detail. Look at the thread where the guy didn't like how any of the aftermarket exhausts sound and then got jumped on by some people. I was the only one who recognized what he was really trying to say, and he thanked me for it. In fact, after I clarified for everyone what he was trying to say, a bunch of people actually agreed with his position.
Sometimes it's the writer's fault. Sometimes it's the reader's fault. Sometimes the writer recognizes the language issue and tries even harder to accommodate only to be lambasted for wordiness or pretentiousness. Sometimes a scientist puts together a ton of hardcore science, writes a book for the masses (that you can buy at Borders or Barnes & Noble), writes super carefully and detailed (wordy), and finds that the book ends up being misinterpreted anyway. It's unavoidable. But we still try to do the good work.
For this forum, I've done what I feel is necessary. To be super explicit, even if it means wordy and redundant. One thing you have to concede is I am able to say the same thing in many different ways across different posts, indicating I really understand what I'm trying to say. That core concept has been absolutely consistent and stable throughout, indicating the model I presented is able to accommodate many different responses.
You can infer whatever you want about my personality and I can respond. But you and some others insist on attacking my ideas as retarded. I'm sorry but I have to assert that only a retard would think that. Zoom and others of his level do not think my ideas are stupid and have made no comments to that.
My discourse is not confusing in the least. There's just a lot of it. Look how concise my spiel in your quote is. Look also at post # 103. If you notice sometimes I'll be redundant within a single sentence. I do this on purpose because I know there are a ton of different levels of background on this forum. I have seen confusion time and time again because someone was not precise in his language and others misinterpreted. Look at the front brake DIY and the confusion it caused me because of imprecise language without enough detail. Look at the thread where the guy didn't like how any of the aftermarket exhausts sound and then got jumped on by some people. I was the only one who recognized what he was really trying to say, and he thanked me for it. In fact, after I clarified for everyone what he was trying to say, a bunch of people actually agreed with his position.
Sometimes it's the writer's fault. Sometimes it's the reader's fault. Sometimes the writer recognizes the language issue and tries even harder to accommodate only to be lambasted for wordiness or pretentiousness. Sometimes a scientist puts together a ton of hardcore science, writes a book for the masses (that you can buy at Borders or Barnes & Noble), writes super carefully and detailed (wordy), and finds that the book ends up being misinterpreted anyway. It's unavoidable. But we still try to do the good work.
For this forum, I've done what I feel is necessary. To be super explicit, even if it means wordy and redundant. One thing you have to concede is I am able to say the same thing in many different ways across different posts, indicating I really understand what I'm trying to say. That core concept has been absolutely consistent and stable throughout, indicating the model I presented is able to accommodate many different responses.
You can infer whatever you want about my personality and I can respond. But you and some others insist on attacking my ideas as retarded. I'm sorry but I have to assert that only a retard would think that. Zoom and others of his level do not think my ideas are stupid and have made no comments to that.
Last edited by Cooder; 02-21-2006 at 05:45 PM.
02-21-2006, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Cooder
Almost no one in here thinks the RX8 will do well. We simply want it to survive. So that will have to be a BAZILLION minus one less than a BAZILLION.
My discourse is not confusing in the least. There's just a lot of it. Look how concise my spiel in your quote is. Look also at post # 103. If you notice sometimes I'll be redundant within a single sentence. I do this on purpose because I know there are a ton of different levels of background on this forum. I have seen confusion time and time again because someone was not precise in his language and others misinterpreted. Look at the front brake DIY and the confusion it caused me because of imprecise language without enough detail. Look at the thread where the guy didn't like how any of the aftermarket exhausts sound and then got jumped on by some people. I was the only one who recognized what he was really trying to say, and he thanked me for it. In fact, after I clarified for everyone what he was trying to say, a bunch of people actually agreed with his position.
Sometimes it's the writer's fault. Sometimes it's the reader's fault. Sometimes the writer recognizes the language issue and tries even harder to accommodate only to be lambasted for wordiness or pretentiousness. Sometimes a scientist puts together a ton of hardcore science, writes a book for the masses (that you can buy at Borders or Barnes & Noble), writes super carefully and detailed (wordy), and finds that the book ends up being misinterpreted anyway. It's unavoidable. But we still try to do the good work.
For this forum, I've done what I feel is necessary. To be super explicit, even if it means wordy and redundant. One thing you have to concede is I am able to say the same thing in many different ways across different posts, indicating I really understand what I'm trying to say. That core concept has been absolutely consistent and stable throughout, indicating the model I presented is able to accommodate many different responses.
You can infer whatever you want about my personality and I can respond. But you and some others insist on attacking my ideas as retarded. I'm sorry but I have to assert that only a retard would think that. Zoom and others of his level do not think my ideas are stupid and have made no comments to that.
My discourse is not confusing in the least. There's just a lot of it. Look how concise my spiel in your quote is. Look also at post # 103. If you notice sometimes I'll be redundant within a single sentence. I do this on purpose because I know there are a ton of different levels of background on this forum. I have seen confusion time and time again because someone was not precise in his language and others misinterpreted. Look at the front brake DIY and the confusion it caused me because of imprecise language without enough detail. Look at the thread where the guy didn't like how any of the aftermarket exhausts sound and then got jumped on by some people. I was the only one who recognized what he was really trying to say, and he thanked me for it. In fact, after I clarified for everyone what he was trying to say, a bunch of people actually agreed with his position.
Sometimes it's the writer's fault. Sometimes it's the reader's fault. Sometimes the writer recognizes the language issue and tries even harder to accommodate only to be lambasted for wordiness or pretentiousness. Sometimes a scientist puts together a ton of hardcore science, writes a book for the masses (that you can buy at Borders or Barnes & Noble), writes super carefully and detailed (wordy), and finds that the book ends up being misinterpreted anyway. It's unavoidable. But we still try to do the good work.
For this forum, I've done what I feel is necessary. To be super explicit, even if it means wordy and redundant. One thing you have to concede is I am able to say the same thing in many different ways across different posts, indicating I really understand what I'm trying to say. That core concept has been absolutely consistent and stable throughout, indicating the model I presented is able to accommodate many different responses.
You can infer whatever you want about my personality and I can respond. But you and some others insist on attacking my ideas as retarded. I'm sorry but I have to assert that only a retard would think that. Zoom and others of his level do not think my ideas are stupid and have made no comments to that.
keep your points brief. thats all i was saying for you to do. You keep saying you're saying new things that are earth shattering enough to be a Thesis. All you're 'REALLY' saying past the dinner party jargon is that you think the 8 can do well if a few things happen. someone call CNN wow, what breaking news.
Again, no apples for you my friend.