9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

I hate Royal Purple anything, none of there **** seems to meet any standards.


Anyway, as for Protek R, I remember reading on RX7club and elsewhere that is is just a re-bottled (obviously they don't make it) brand of a normally available 2 stroke. It's good stuff but way too expensive if you can get it elsewhere for half price.

WTBRotary!

iTrader: (6)

Idemitsu... yum

egads

I have the series 2 RX-8 and decided to try premixing. But even after reading all 128 pages I'm still not certain what 2 stroke oil to use. Instead of just asking for opinions, I thought perhaps there was a way to come up with a more objective rather than subjective way of choosing a premix. This would benefit not only new people to the forum but also veterans who come across some new oil that they want to try out. This will be a long post so bear with me. Here are my conclusions so far:

First, I'm only talking about 2 stroke oil. This excludes Lucas UCL, MMO, FP60, etc

Specialty oil versus any old 2 stroke oil:
Half the posts basically say any good 2 stroke oil will work fine and you're wasting your money on expensive stuff. The other half say go with the specialty oils (Idemitsu, Amsoil, Legend, etc.) since they are either tailored made for the rotary or why risk your engine on an inferior product.
Consensus: There isn't one.

API-TC versus TCW-3:
Some say TCW-3 is fine. Others say to avoid them because they contain marine dispersants and biodegradable components. I've seen links referring to this article and after reading it it seems API-TC would logically be better suited for the rotary.
http://www.sea-doo.net/techarticles/oil/oil.htm
There are some oils that meet both specs too.
Consensus: Overall I think the posts lean more towards having at least API-TC spec. Unclear on TCW-3

JASO classification:
Wikipedia has a summary of the different specs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JASO_FC
It seems that from FB through FD, they all have the same lubricity but the higher up specs add more detergents and exhaust system blocking. Nobody seems to know if the added detergents make a difference in deposits.
Consensus: At least FB, unclear if FC or FD is needed.

egads

Now every oil should have a product data specification. I'm going to go out on a limb and propose that viscosity at 40C, 100C and flash point temperature are probably the properties that affect us the most. I think that there could and should be a general consensus amongst all the experts here of what criteria for each of these properties would be ideal for the Renesis. I don't think anybody will be able to prove it, but if we can come up with some opinions on the parameters, it would allow us to more objectively evaluate any 2 stroke oil.

So let's look at probably the top ranked oil Idemitsu PDS
http://www.ilacorp.com/images/web_premix.pdf
And here is another popular specialty oil, Amsoil Pro Saber.
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/atp.aspx
(One problem is many PDS don't label the units so I'm going to have to assume they're all standardized to the same units)

To summarize
Idemitsu
Viscosity 40C = 53
Viscosity 100C = 8.5
Flash point = 126C

Amsoil
Viscosity 40C = 99
Viscosity 100C = 13.5
Flash point = 114C

Now I'm not an expert on any of this stuff so really don't know if a higher or lower flash point is better or even matters. But let's use these two oils as our baseline for a good oil to use.

egads

Let's apply this guide on an sample oil where one wouldn't be able to tell if it is a good oil to use just by reading the forum.
I've seen Castrol TTS mentioned many times - and some say it is fine to use, other say it is terrible. Since it's controversial, it should be a good test subject.
Here are some negative posts.
https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...postcount=2962
https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...postcount=2808
And some positive posts.
https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...postcount=3046
https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...postcount=2709
Here is it's descriptive website.
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/secti...tentId=7040552
Here is it's PDS.
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp...werRSTTS2T.pdf

So it is an API-TC, JASO FD oil with no mention of TCW3.
It's specs are (There is no listed viscosity at 40C):
Viscosity 100C = 7.6
Flash point = 70C

So this oil seems to meet the standards but has a lower viscosity at 100C and a substantially lower flash point than both of the baseline oils. Now, I don't know if this makes it a better or worse oil but at least you know how it compares.

egads

I went to the local O'Reilly's and grabbed the only two 2 stroke oils they had to use for additional comparisons.

The first is Lucas Semi Synthetic 2-cycle oil. The bottle looks identical to the picture on this page.
http://www.lucasoil.com/products/dis...02-CYCLE%20Oil
Here is the attached PDS although the picture on the PDS is different.
http://www.lucasoil.com/images/media...yn_2_Cycle.pdf

Now again this product has had good and bad reviews. I've seen recent posts of people using it
Here is a pro post.
https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...postcount=3062
Here is a negative post
https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...postcount=2881

So again, let's apply our comparison criteria. It is a API-TC, JASO FD oil with no mention of TCW3.
Viscosity 100C = 7.5
Flash point = 89C

Again, this meets our standards set in the guide. It too has a lower viscosity than both our baselines and a lower flash point but not as low as the Castrol TTS. This product would seem to be closer in specifications to our baselines.

egads

Finally I saw a product that wasn't mentioned in over 128 pages of post. So this will be a great oil to use to see if our new comparison criteria is going to work. Meet the Castrol 2T. I've attached pictures of the bottle. Here is the Product Data Sheet (PDS), although it is in Spanish. Couldn't find an English one for some reason.
http://motoslaestrella.com.ar/produc...castrol-2T.pdf

It is an API-TC, JASO FB oil with no mention of TCW3.

Viscosity 40C = 80
Viscosity 100C = 9.5
Flash point = 200C

Again, it meets the standards, though just barely with that JASO FB rating. It's viscosity falls in between the two baseline oils so it is very similar on this aspect. But it's flash point is highest of all oils compared. In fact it's flash point is similar to standard motor oil. I've included a quote from this thread below with the flashpoints of normal oil.

egads

I hope this summary is a positive contribution to the RX8Club and will serve as a general guide for people who want to premix but are not sure if Brand X will suffice. I now would like people to provide their opinions, especially regarding oil specifications in the PDS to help complete this guide.
Is a high or low flash point desireable?
What is an acceptable viscosity?
Or is none of the information in the PDS even useful when selecting a premix oil?

As for myself, I'm selfishly wondering if I dare use that Castrol 2T that I purchased given it's high flash point.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Castrol 2T has been used by many. It's nothing new. Good stuff but for some reason not around a lot in my area for some reason.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Here in NZ there are three grades in order of quality :
2T fully synthetic (gold bottle)
2T active (silver bottle)
2T for lawnmowers and chainsaws (white bottle)

FWIW I have used Castrol 2T'active' to good effect for the last 40,000 kms .

It looks like the one you have bought is the lowest grade one .
I would not use that one myself ,although I have no evidence to suggest it would be a problem .

ASH8

IMO you only get what you pay for...

As an S2 owner and the first to use Pre-Mix in an S2, I have used and continued to use Amsoil Saber Pro from day one of ownership, at 4 mils per litre of fuel or 6 ounces per full tank of gas.

After 42,000 KMS (24,800 miles), my RX-8 starts or fires faster than my brand new 2011 MX-5..using the same high octane Petrol (Gas).

Heeroguy

got my s2,r3 ran amsoil since 3rd fill up, at 1600 miles (lol ) and car just feels in all bits slightlness smoother than first few days i had it, now could just be breaking in or all in my head, but ive read too many positives and alot of it wont hurt threads so im just always going to run premix, also got a case of 3.5 oz bottles i put one per fill up so im not useing alot either but some

PhillipM

Used that a few times in mine, used to use it in my dirtbikes, and given the condition the engines were in after a teardown when I switched to it, damned good stuff.

gwilliams6

Hey I have used Pettit Racing Protek-R in my street and race RXs for years. Pettit racing has used this extensively in their race-prepared and GT class winning RXs, so it is well proven in the real world of Rotaries on the street and track. I have easily a million miles in rotaries (street and track) since 1973 and have used various premixs include the Amsoil, back in my early rotary racing days. I have used the Pettit Racing Protek-R for years (it has been especially formulated for rotary engines with both oil-based and proprietary synthetic ingredients) and I have never had a single rotary engine failure or problem in any of my seven RXs. The Protek-R is used at 4 oz. per tankful for normal driving and more for racing and track.

This is an endless debate, everyone has their preferences, but just like another longtime rotary guru ASH8, from my experience you are wise to use a premix formulated and tested SPECIFICALLY for rotary engines , so you don't get any additives that can do harm. The difference in cost is minor to what it will cost to replace an engine for using the wrong product.
----------------------------------------------
40th Anniversary Edition RX8
1993 RX7 twin turbo, modified
1990 RX7 Turbo II,modified and raced
1978 RX7-modified and turbo charged to 500+hp race car (Racing Beat prepared) Owned and drove this for fourteen years.
1974 RX4-modified and raced
1973 RX3 (two) sedan; and coupe (modified and raced)

egads

Thanks for all the feedback and information.

But as you can see from just the 6 posts since my overly long narrative, there are lots of differing opinions on premix oils. You have 9K saying the Castrol 2T is "good stuff" and Brettus that it is a lowest grade oil and he wouldn't use it. Then you have Ash (who I've learned more about the series 2 from his posts than any other resource) advising getting more expensive oil (you get what you pay for) and gwilliams who seems to agree with Ash but actually recommends using an oil designed specifically for the rotary when Ash is recommending Amsoil Saber Pro which is not.

So instead of asking about specific oils, would a high or low flash point be better? TCW3 oils tend to have a low flash point (<70C). There are several with an intermediate range 70-100 (Castrol 2T activ, Lucas semisynthetic, etc.) Then you have the ones like Amsoil and Idemitsu with a flash point well above 100C. Or does it even matter?

Nines

The negative post is actually in reference to Lucas UCL and not the semi-syn 2 stroke. Though how a clear liquid turns a filter black, I don't know. https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tech-garage-22/lucus-upper-cylinder-luburcant-injector-cleaner-safe-191277/page2/

I purchased the same stuff (semi-syn 2 stroke & UCL) and experimenting with MMO also. Haven't tried the 2 stroke yet, but so far the Lucas UCL has given me the best mileage increase over MMO and no premix. MMO & UCL both smooth out the idle, but acceleration seems better with UCL. I'll start with lucas 2stroke semi-syn soon and would be glad to share my expereinces.

ASH8

Try not to over analyze it (use of pre-mix) too much...nothing wrong with Idemitsu..

Leave MMO and a few others alone...

Just my opinion...like all the other experts.

PhillipM

That's because there's more than one Castrol 2 stroke oil, the one you have there looks like the one designed for low-performance, cool running lawnmower engines.

The Castrol ActEvo 2T oil however is designed for high performance engines producing a lot of heat, will work fine with small multi-pintle injectors, is JASO FC approved, and has a flash point of 70-73*c, and ~37cst and 7cst for the relative viscosities @ 40c/100c.

Usually comes in a black rather than a white bottle, but it varies by country.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

+1. There is no definitive proof that one is better than the other. Maybe in a race environment you could determine if one is better than the other but not on the street. My engine looks pretty good lubrication wise when torn down and I used a variety of JASO FC and FD 2 strokes. Remember the oil metering system is also for cooling the rotor corners as well.

Kaleb M

what is the difference on 04 8s between using regular and synthetic oil? as well what about premixing regular oil rather thn two stroke would it hurt the engine?

RX8Soldier

iTrader: (24)

^Have you even bothered to read?

Kaleb M

hear and there but i hardly have time to read between school and work. i was just trying to find my answer quick?

RX8Soldier

iTrader: (24)

get used to doing your own research. People will not spoon feed you here.

You need to make your own decision whether to premix or not. Also, why use regular oil? 2 stoke is meant to burn in the combustion chamber. Don't use regular oil.

Kaleb M

its not my research hince why u shouldnt b rude off bat, u couldve just answered the question or not wasted ur time posting, i know how to use the search, its a SEARCH not a guarantee. As well if u have enough time to read the millons of pages of threads on here maybe u should get a job as well or maybe just a dog. start of simple.

TO restate question so ___holes don't post there thoughts due to lack of history behind the question. Had multiple people in my local 8 club put regular 10w30 oil in full tanks of premix on mistake through a mix up in oil containers, should they expect in problems from the faulty premix?

RX8Soldier

iTrader: (24)

you're telling me to not be rude, then you go ahead and insult me? Do you realize that I did give you information? You asked a question, and I gave you an answer, asswipe.

to REANSWER your question- It can affect your engine, if you put too much oil.