Series II ECU Tuning
03-07-2011, 10:33 AM
#128
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dynotronics1,
$400 to flash? Is that per flash or a one time fee? What happens if Mazda has an update and overwrites the existing flash?
Also for FI tuning this does not seem like a viable option. Tuning needs to be done in real time with multiple datalog runs and tuning needs to be incremental in its changes.
$400 to flash? Is that per flash or a one time fee? What happens if Mazda has an update and overwrites the existing flash?
Also for FI tuning this does not seem like a viable option. Tuning needs to be done in real time with multiple datalog runs and tuning needs to be incremental in its changes.
And to your question about FI; this hasd not been an issue. In fact tuning does not have to be done "realtime", and on this platform cannot be done as such since the files are read only.
The way to do this correctly is first calculate the flow, make adjustments for the physics of the engine type, design a map based on that information, then test, repeat as required.
Works fine, we have done more than a few FI cars this way with great results
03-07-2011, 09:08 PM
#130
Wings of Heaven
Ok, a couple of things to remember when doing the extra ecu deal you mention; the gen 2 has the mazda immo system on some of the cars. We are not sure why they did this, but in simple terms if you decide to go with the junk yard ecu, try it in your car before you send it in. If it will crank and start, your good, if not you have immo.
This is not a huge issue, but if you want the second ecu to run in a car with immo, it needs to be cloned first. We can take care of this for you also, but we need your original ecu along with the second ecu. Process takes 24 hours and can be done at the same time as the reflash.
Ok, to your question on logging; the best logger on the market for this application is from innovate motorsports. If you want to buy one, the OT 2 is a perfect match for the rx8 and will do everything you need, and has some cool features. If you want to just use a logger for this one time, we rent the professional unit from IM called the LM 2
Hope that answers your questions!
This is not a huge issue, but if you want the second ecu to run in a car with immo, it needs to be cloned first. We can take care of this for you also, but we need your original ecu along with the second ecu. Process takes 24 hours and can be done at the same time as the reflash.
Ok, to your question on logging; the best logger on the market for this application is from innovate motorsports. If you want to buy one, the OT 2 is a perfect match for the rx8 and will do everything you need, and has some cool features. If you want to just use a logger for this one time, we rent the professional unit from IM called the LM 2
Hope that answers your questions!
So hold on a second...lets say I go FI, will the LM-2 device be able to tune my car for that application as well as other mods done to the car? What I'm trying to understand is what is the difference between the cobb ap and the LM-2?
03-07-2011, 09:23 PM
#132
Wings of Heaven
so what are the pros and cons of the LM-2?
03-08-2011, 09:03 AM
#134
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And I can tell you that Cobb will not be building a unit for this car, as they have pulled back to turbo applications only
BTW, we are a Cobb Pro Tuner shop, as well as EcuTek, Motec,and Haltec
03-08-2011, 09:08 AM
#135
No we will never offer a hand held, or end user adjustable unit, as there is just no point. Here is the problem; while there are 200 + floats( what you guys that are using Cobb would call "tables") in the current ecu, there is just no way we can set up the hardware/interface so you, the end user could get the most out of the system without limiting you in other places. Its really just simple economics.
And I can tell you that Cobb will not be building a unit for this car, as they have pulled back to turbo applications only
BTW, we are a Cobb Pro Tuner shop, as well as EcuTek, Motec,and Haltec
And I can tell you that Cobb will not be building a unit for this car, as they have pulled back to turbo applications only
BTW, we are a Cobb Pro Tuner shop, as well as EcuTek, Motec,and Haltec
Isn't that what you are doing in theory when an end user sends in an ECU? I can't imagine that you would have an extravagant process that doesn't in some form connect to a PC, simple economics, as you say, tells me this.
Edit: I want to make sure no one gets the wrong idea here. I am not bashing or being ungreatful. Trust me, this is spectacular news for us S2 folks. I just want to gather as much info and kind of pry into what "could be" as opposed to just hearing what "is" .... im an engineer, i can't help it. I figure with so many of us S2 owners dying for a tune, there aren't many of us that can really go out and get a spare ECU or sleep our cars for a few days to send in our current ECU's
03-08-2011, 09:20 AM
#136
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The LM-2(or the OT-2) is simply a data recorder, nothing more. With this datalogger, you can get information on all the engine parameters, such as; fuel trims, timing trims,secondary timing trims,MAF, ect,ect.
With this information you can then, with the proper software and hardware, retune the factory ecu program to fit each and every car more perfectly, and in doing so, increase the performance of that car.
One of the really nice things about a good datalogger, is you can, if you know the weight, rolldown resistance, and frontal area of a particular car, get a very very close idea of the power the car is outputting, as well as quantify any improvements without the need to jump on the dyno every 5-10 min. In fact we use the LM-2 and our Motec units here when tuning most of the turbo cars, BEFORE we put them on our dynos.
Hope that helps clear up the question for you
03-08-2011, 09:37 AM
#137
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So you are saying that there is no way to develop an interface between the ECU and a PC, and have some software (open source or otherwise) to download and install preset maps that you and your team developed?
Isn't that what you are doing in theory when an end user sends in an ECU? I can't imagine that you would have an extravagant process that doesn't in some form connect to a PC, simple economics, as you say, tells me this.
Edit: I want to make sure no one gets the wrong idea here. I am not bashing or being ungreatful. Trust me, this is spectacular news for us S2 folks. I just want to gather as much info and kind of pry into what "could be" as opposed to just hearing what "is" .... im an engineer, i can't help it. I figure with so many of us S2 owners dying for a tune, there aren't many of us that can really go out and get a spare ECU or sleep our cars for a few days to send in our current ECU's
Isn't that what you are doing in theory when an end user sends in an ECU? I can't imagine that you would have an extravagant process that doesn't in some form connect to a PC, simple economics, as you say, tells me this.
Edit: I want to make sure no one gets the wrong idea here. I am not bashing or being ungreatful. Trust me, this is spectacular news for us S2 folks. I just want to gather as much info and kind of pry into what "could be" as opposed to just hearing what "is" .... im an engineer, i can't help it. I figure with so many of us S2 owners dying for a tune, there aren't many of us that can really go out and get a spare ECU or sleep our cars for a few days to send in our current ECU's
Oh, we can and will sell you the software and hardware to tune your car if you like, but I'm pretty sure you wont like the price to do one single car.
I'm saying that not to be an ***, or because we want to control the market. But as a fellow engineer, I am sure you understand the money that gos into the r&d to reverse engineer a new MCU, not to mention develop the hardware to connect with the ecu in the first place.
What most folks think of as tuning software(cobb atr for example)is nothing more than a GUI that interfaces you with the real tuning software. This is how the and why you are limited with the tuning there. What we use is the software BEHIND the GUI. So yes, while we are using a laptop/workstation, to do the rewrite of the files, it really bears little relation to what most folks think of as tuning. Hope that explains it for you better.
BTW, our standard service is 24 hour turn around on most ecus, but we do try real hard to get them back out the same day, if you let us know you need them back quicker, and you can get them to us by 10am.
04-06-2011, 08:47 PM
#138
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are you guys saying you can flash a viable tune for a turbo S2? i mean how would someone install a turbo on a s2 and log their dyno or road maps without melting their engine?
or are you saying you can examine a cars logs in vacuum/no boost, determine roughly the VE of the engine and using a basic assumption of the compressor map and boost level come up with a viable tune for a turbo car?
personally i havent dealt with MAF cars much, mostly only tuned turbo via MAP where on a NA car working with empty boost tables its tricky getting going but is a MAF engine linear enough that you can just scale up the offboost numbers and make it work for boost?
or are you saying you can examine a cars logs in vacuum/no boost, determine roughly the VE of the engine and using a basic assumption of the compressor map and boost level come up with a viable tune for a turbo car?
personally i havent dealt with MAF cars much, mostly only tuned turbo via MAP where on a NA car working with empty boost tables its tricky getting going but is a MAF engine linear enough that you can just scale up the offboost numbers and make it work for boost?
04-07-2011, 01:37 AM
#140
I zoom therefore I am.
i think people are missing the forest from the trees here.
There will never be enough S2 owners who want to do any kind of tuning to make a hand held unit economically viable, period. What dyno tronics is doing is the best/ONLY option available atm and unless someone else comes along (don't hold your breath) they will be the only S2 tuning option.
Personally, i'm just glad to see someone picked up the idea and ran with it. It might not be simple, but it sure sounds like it works.
There will never be enough S2 owners who want to do any kind of tuning to make a hand held unit economically viable, period. What dyno tronics is doing is the best/ONLY option available atm and unless someone else comes along (don't hold your breath) they will be the only S2 tuning option.
Personally, i'm just glad to see someone picked up the idea and ran with it. It might not be simple, but it sure sounds like it works.
04-09-2011, 09:47 PM
#141
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Has anyone ever seen ECUFlash? It has a very basic GUI with a very detailed ability to tune…which is essentially what any of us are asking for. I don't need someone to make me pretty maps and make it as easy as plug in, hit download, and start the car…I'm more than willing to have to turn the numbers myself, I did it on my Evo, I did it on my Eclipse, and I'll do it on my RX-8…I just need the basic tool (eg: ECUFlash). Sometimes, I wish I were a programmer for things like this…I mean, it seems like if someone had the knowledge and the drive, it wouldn't take too long to come up with a way for two computers to trade XML files.
06-28-2011, 06:18 AM
#143
The push for 2009+ tuning options
Well I can't speak for the entire S2 group, but I am personally ticked off that there is very little effort being made to open up tuning options for the S2.
http://www.tactrix.com/index.php?pag...mart&Itemid=53
With the latest stuff I have been doing with the canbus, I have been very interested in getting my hands on something like this. I contacted the group and although their software only supports Scoobys and Mitsu's .. the hardware supports Mazda.
Question is, what can this do for us?
Mazda distributes some software, but it comes at a subscription fee:
http://www.mazdaserviceinfo.com/PCMOverview.aspx
http://www.tactrix.com/index.php?pag...mart&Itemid=53
With the latest stuff I have been doing with the canbus, I have been very interested in getting my hands on something like this. I contacted the group and although their software only supports Scoobys and Mitsu's .. the hardware supports Mazda.
Question is, what can this do for us?
Mazda distributes some software, but it comes at a subscription fee:
http://www.mazdaserviceinfo.com/PCMOverview.aspx
06-28-2011, 07:19 AM
#144
Well before you get pissed you need to look at the cost to develop the necesary software and then look at the demand for it. Most s2 owners will not mod their cars or have the desire to use any kind of tuning software and there just has not been a large number of s2's sold
06-28-2011, 07:27 AM
#145
Oh no worries I understand ... I'm not really pissed, just moreso anxious lol. I mean you look at the COBB site and they developed software for some 1-2 MY cars like the old gen MS3, MS6. You figure that the ECU is using the same CPU as the newer gen scoobies and probably has a lot of similar parameters (albeit more) than the S1...
06-28-2011, 10:12 AM
#150
