PUR NRG

Noticed on their US website two spring rates. The first is 8kg/5kg, the second is 10kg/7kg. Anyone heard about this?
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Omicron

Nope. But sure wish someone knew what the stock spring rates are.

PUR NRG

As I mentioned previously, JIC now has two different spring rates for the FLT-A2's. SE3P RX8FLTA2S is their soft version with 8kg/5kg springs. SE3P RX8FLTA2H is their hard version with 10kg/7kg springs. Both come with a remote cable adjuster for the rear.

JIC has tested the hard version with Racing Beat's sway bars with a claimed 1.05g skidpad. (I thought I heard 1.005g but that level of precision seems dubious.) They recommend setting the front shocks at 10 and the rear at 15 (1 being hardest) as a good starting point.

I purchased the "H" shocks through Intense Motorsports. They have a web price of $1530 but matched a competitor's $1499 price without any hesitation. I went with them to cheap out on the sales tax a california business would have to charge. Still debating whether I want to try installing them myself or get it professionally done. I have a full set of Racing Beat sway bars and S-02 245/40-18 tires going on at the same time. I will post impressions towards the end of April after it's broken in and gone through a couple autocrosses.
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mdw33333

How were your dealings with Intense Motorsports? I just ordered some things from them.

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

do they mention what kind of sticky gumball tires they used for that test?

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

best motoring seemed to give this info on the mazdaspeed piece...

the fronts stock were 2.8kg/mm and got raised to 5.0kg/mm for MS

the rears stocke were 2.0kg/mm and got raised to 3.45kg/mm for MS


... i don't claim to speak japanese but those sure look like spring rates to me :p

PUR NRG

Mostly talked to John, a new guy who didn't know much about what I was asking. Scott seemed more knowledgable. Overall an okay experience.
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Omicron

Excellent, thanks PrOber, that's the closest to a "real" answer I've seen on this subject. And the per mm rate makes sense too. So that brings me to my next question: why are the JIC spring rates being quotes listed as kg/kg, or weight per weight? (Yeah yea, I know, kg is a unit of mass, not weight per se, but it makes more sense in this context to refer to it as a weight ) Kg/kg makes no sense to me... but then, I'm a relative neophyte to suspensions. Can someone explain this?

And PUR NRG, it looks like you are talking about the JIC coilovers here, and not just replacement springs, correct?

Thanks folks...

PUR NRG

I believe the 10kg/7kg notation is their shorthand for 10kg/mm front, 7kg/mm rear. Much like here in the states when we refer to 500 lb springs when the correct designation is 500 lbs/ft.

Although 10kg/mm is 6720 lbs/ft which seems a bit stiff for a 3050 lb car. So I'm probably making a mistake somewhere.

I am referring to the complete coilover, which comes in one of two different spring rates.
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Omicron

Ok, thanks!

syntrix

the 10kg is JDM. We get softer ones.

talk to your JIC reseller, they can get any combo of springs rates from JIC.

I think mine are 9/5, a special setup... I'll have to 2x check the shipping box when I get home.

Yeah yeah, my website is down.... should be back up this weekend!

PUR NRG

When you say JDM, you mean that's what JIC offers in japan only? 'Cause their US website lists both and they have them in stock. I should be getting the 10kg/7kg drop-shipped from them next week.
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syntrix

You have the option. The standard sets sold in the usa are the lower spring rates.

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

why on god's earth would you want springs 2x stiffer then the already super stiff MS springs. I hope nowbody has fillings in their teeth :p

syntrix

Because they are matched to the dampners, and my application is MOST LIKELY different than yours.

Especially, to me, since fillings have nothing to do with track time.

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

If the numbers are all correct, then the soft JICs are 3x stock. Wow. I went 2x stock on my Miata (Ground Control kit) and the roll stiffness was so high, I found that I could disconnect the sway bars and still get good handling (actually, better, but that's another story). Of course the RX-8 is a different beast, but I am still surprised. I look forward to reading reviews.

syntrix

Although there is shock on the spring rates.....

A lot of people don't realize that the dampning is matched, and can be adjusted according to your requirements.

Now suspension tuning is going to be a whole 'nother advanced topic

PUR NRG

You mean the dampening valves and shims are different on the FLT-2A with 7/5 springs than it is on the FLT-2A with 10/7 springs? I didn't know that.

I am slightly concerned that the 10/7 springs will prove too stiff and thought about switching to the softer ones should that be a problem.
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r0tor

iTrader: (1)

i'm just doing some math on the fly here... with the 10/7 setup thats a spring rate of 6720 lb/ft (if Pur Nurg is right and i think he is

static weight distribution would put each spring compressed ... (3050lbs/4)/(6720) = .11 ft or 1.36 inches

now cornering (without even having a sway bar) say you can get 50% weight transfer to the outside front corner, 30% to the outside rear, and 10% to each of the inside wheels... i think this is a pretty exteme case

the maximum spring deflection is the outside front wheel... which is now (.5*3050lbs)/6720 = .22ft or 2.72 inches, which means without even having a sway bar hooked up to max suspension movement is going to be roughly 1.36 inches.

Add a sway bar and your down to around an 1" of suspension travel. You might as well have no suspension! Beautifully matched damping isn't going to do much is the suspension is only moving an inch except if your in a full blown formula 1 race car.

PUR NRG

Decent math, sounds about right. One thing I may have wrong though is US spring rates are commonly referenced as lbs/in? That would mean 10kg/mm is really 560lbs/in. That doesn't sound too bad as far a spring rates go, even if it still means the suspension isn't moving very much. I know an autocrosser who has springs along those lines in his BMW M-coupe.
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