RECALL THREAD/MNAO suspend RX-8 deliveries.
07-20-2005, 11:57 PM
#376
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Seems my earlier theory on the flash level is panning out. Dealers are flashing 05 AND 04 RX-8's with the "E" flash. The "R" and rumoured "S" flash appear to be history. Still no details on the full Group 1 repair info though, so no new Group 1 cars are not being delivered to customers yet.....regardless of flash level.
07-20-2005, 11:59 PM
#377
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hmm have we gone through so many flashes tah we have started over and hit the 5th leter in the alphabet again :p
any word on this one? i'm still rocking the M flash like a hurricane :D
any word on this one? i'm still rocking the M flash like a hurricane :D
07-21-2005, 12:03 AM
#378
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Originally Posted by army_rx8
hmm have we gone through so many flashes tah we have started over and hit the 5th leter in the alphabet again :p
any word on this one? i'm still rocking the M flash like a hurricane :D
any word on this one? i'm still rocking the M flash like a hurricane :D
07-21-2005, 02:43 AM
#381
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Originally Posted by army_rx8
i dunno if i like the way you said "enjoy it while it lastes" hope the new one doesn't f'up my 8
07-21-2005, 03:46 AM
#382
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Ok, not sure if this matters, if I didn't drive my car as much does this mean less or less likely of more damage? Ilm certainly on group1...
I'm keeping this baby garaged til further notice.
I'm keeping this baby garaged til further notice.
07-21-2005, 06:20 AM
#383
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Originally Posted by IZoomZoomI
Ok, not sure if this matters, if I didn't drive my car as much does this mean less or less likely of more damage?
Originally Posted by Gomez
The way I understand the flash situation is this......
Mazda are using the bungs/grommets located above the rear muffler on the frame rails as an indicator of excessive underbody heat. If those bungs have melted, then the whole exhaust has gotten mighty hot. This will have occurred because of excessively high rpm for a indeterminate period while the car was at standstill, or possibly........because the car had flooded at some stage. If it had flooded, then gas could have been in excess inside the cat and lit off when the car started. This would have created very high cat/exhaust temps and may have caused damage to the components listed in the first post of this thread.
It is this flood theory that they are checking the Group 2 cars for, IMO. These cars are (by and large) still in dealer inventory. As they are new cars, they wouldn't have been thrashed while stationary, but may have been flooded.
We have seen many cat failures in US/Canadian RX-8's. Bugger all in the rest of the world. It is the considered opinion of a few learned people I have spoken to that these failures are caused by flooded cats. They overheat, then the substrate fails. A number of dealers have changed cats after repairing flooded cars, so this theory does hold up. Flooding has not been a large problem in other countries because they do not have your flashes. Your flashes were designed for local conditions/laws. Mazda have obviously had trouble getting it spot-on for your driving styles/weather conditions/environmental laws etc. This latest flash (which I believe is the "E" flash) will be installed in Group 2 cars to lower exhaust temps by modifying fuel delivery when the car is stationary at high rpm. IMO, it will also be installed into Group 1 cars, come the recall in August. The "M" flash pretty much stopped the avalanche of flooding in the US, minor tweaks since then have improved flashes further. The bigger battery also helped...along with the new starter. This latest flash will tweak further to address the recently discovered issue described in this recall.
olddragger, your aftermarket catback may cloud the diagnosis somewhat. It's my experience that aftermarket exhausts reduce the temps above the muffler assy where the bungs are located. So..... it's possible that your car may have experienced a high underbody temp and not melted the bungs. We haven't seen what they plan to do regarding inspection of Group 1 cars, this is something Mazda will have to take into consideration....(IMO!).
Mazda are using the bungs/grommets located above the rear muffler on the frame rails as an indicator of excessive underbody heat. If those bungs have melted, then the whole exhaust has gotten mighty hot. This will have occurred because of excessively high rpm for a indeterminate period while the car was at standstill, or possibly........because the car had flooded at some stage. If it had flooded, then gas could have been in excess inside the cat and lit off when the car started. This would have created very high cat/exhaust temps and may have caused damage to the components listed in the first post of this thread.
It is this flood theory that they are checking the Group 2 cars for, IMO. These cars are (by and large) still in dealer inventory. As they are new cars, they wouldn't have been thrashed while stationary, but may have been flooded.
We have seen many cat failures in US/Canadian RX-8's. Bugger all in the rest of the world. It is the considered opinion of a few learned people I have spoken to that these failures are caused by flooded cats. They overheat, then the substrate fails. A number of dealers have changed cats after repairing flooded cars, so this theory does hold up. Flooding has not been a large problem in other countries because they do not have your flashes. Your flashes were designed for local conditions/laws. Mazda have obviously had trouble getting it spot-on for your driving styles/weather conditions/environmental laws etc. This latest flash (which I believe is the "E" flash) will be installed in Group 2 cars to lower exhaust temps by modifying fuel delivery when the car is stationary at high rpm. IMO, it will also be installed into Group 1 cars, come the recall in August. The "M" flash pretty much stopped the avalanche of flooding in the US, minor tweaks since then have improved flashes further. The bigger battery also helped...along with the new starter. This latest flash will tweak further to address the recently discovered issue described in this recall.
olddragger, your aftermarket catback may cloud the diagnosis somewhat. It's my experience that aftermarket exhausts reduce the temps above the muffler assy where the bungs are located. So..... it's possible that your car may have experienced a high underbody temp and not melted the bungs. We haven't seen what they plan to do regarding inspection of Group 1 cars, this is something Mazda will have to take into consideration....(IMO!).
All this seems to explain why other RX-8 markets have yet to hear about a recall. It's been the US/Canada market that has had the flooding issues.
Gomez.
07-21-2005, 06:33 AM
#385
Originally Posted by rxeightr
The pieces of the puzzle are starting to come together....
Boy, the flooding issue has sure been a pain in Mazda's rear. Luckily for me it hasn't.
Boy, the flooding issue has sure been a pain in Mazda's rear. Luckily for me it hasn't.
i have to agree i have had no problems except for a replaced o2 sensor, thought about 2 days ago i noticed a right front squeek that is new.
guess the honeymoon is over.
beers
07-21-2005, 07:07 AM
#388
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Originally Posted by Gomez
All this seems to explain why other RX-8 markets have yet to hear about a recall. It's been the US/Canada market that has had the flooding issues.
Gomez.
But the main issues posted here are hp, flooding, fuel-consumption, flooding, hp, rotten cats (chiefly with older calibrations)........same picture as yours.
About more than 50% of the forum-members have replaced cats.
I think it is a logistic problem and MM serves the more important american market first. Time will tell.
http://www.r-x-8.de/wbb2/
07-21-2005, 07:21 AM
#389
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Originally Posted by foxy
About more than 50% of the forum-members have replaced cats.
07-21-2005, 07:40 AM
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No. Our newest flashes here are:
standard power, 5 gear mt:
SW-N3ZGEB000
highpower:
SW-N3ZHEB000
We always had different flashes.
However the catproblems seem to decrease with newer cars and flashes.
standard power, 5 gear mt:
SW-N3ZGEB000
highpower:
SW-N3ZHEB000
We always had different flashes.
However the catproblems seem to decrease with newer cars and flashes.
07-21-2005, 09:24 AM
#391
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Originally Posted by Gomez
50%....strewth!! That's a lot of cats. Do you guys have the US market flashes over there? We definitely don't have them downunder.
australia gets hot, right? and i would imagine that there are emission controls there right? can't imagine they'd be too far off from the US laws. just give us their flash and hopefully be done with it.
i think this just goes to show the ******* at MNAO don't have the slightest clue as to what they are doing. they drop strato mica blue (only for the 8, other models still have it), they drop the auto climate control. the f- with the ecu. they void your warranty if you have a warranty problem...just blame it on abuse. morons is what they are.
Last edited by Glyphon; 07-21-2005 at 09:27 AM.
07-21-2005, 09:40 AM
#392
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What are the chances they are giving a new flash to ALL cars is because they are able to figure out a way to get the lost HP and keep up with EPA/CARB? You think that's why they are recalling all cars and inspect/flash the unsold cars? I know there is real issue with underbody heat damage that is the essence of this upcoming recall but I wish Mazda is doing its best to return to us the lost HP.
07-21-2005, 09:51 AM
#393
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I look at it this way, they are being proactive here, and while everyone is being recalled they figure why not update all the ECU's at the same time with what they feel is the best ECU calibration they have made yet. Is it an inconvience? Maybe, but they are trying to make their flagship car the best they possibly can. I do not see them intentially doing something to the car (ECU, engine, whatever) that would make it worst. I love this car, just recently got the "P" flash and the car feels better than it did, and there wasn't anything wrong with it before I got it flashed, just wanted to be up to date. I think we should just let the facts come in and see what Mazda wants us to do.
07-21-2005, 09:51 AM
#394
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I'm really not liking the idea of paying for Mazda's beta test for the past 2 years.
Has anyone else entertained the idea that due to our increasingly draconian emissions regs, it just might not be possible to have an adequately powered emissions friendly rotary car? How many flashes has the '8 had since new? How many chances to get it right?
I want to believe, really I do.. that you can make a rotary run clean enough to pass emissions and put out enough horsepower to justify 11-13mpg around town.. but are we fooling ourselves now?
2 years, and still waiting. Only change has been the recall notices are scarier.
Has anyone else entertained the idea that due to our increasingly draconian emissions regs, it just might not be possible to have an adequately powered emissions friendly rotary car? How many flashes has the '8 had since new? How many chances to get it right?
I want to believe, really I do.. that you can make a rotary run clean enough to pass emissions and put out enough horsepower to justify 11-13mpg around town.. but are we fooling ourselves now?
2 years, and still waiting. Only change has been the recall notices are scarier.
07-21-2005, 09:52 AM
#395
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Originally Posted by smrx8
I always wonder why my car nevered flooded and believe me i tryed.then again i never go to get all these reflashes they call for .
07-21-2005, 09:52 AM
#396
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Seems like alot of labor to just get another reflash. And I don't think that they would issue a federal safety recall to give us more HP. The recall is to save there butts before some poor sap has a gas tank leak, and fire....even if it hasn't happened yet. The reflash with the recall is either related to the heat issue in the recall, or it could be just taking the opportunity to reflash to a new version while all the cars are in.
To be clear....I think that the recall is genuine for the gas tank/thermal damage, but I suppose it is possible that the reflash has nothing to do with it.
To be clear....I think that the recall is genuine for the gas tank/thermal damage, but I suppose it is possible that the reflash has nothing to do with it.
07-21-2005, 09:55 AM
#397
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I can see that RotaryIT, but I think everything that Mazda Corp is doing is to make the car better, now the service departments that is another story.....
07-21-2005, 10:07 AM
#398
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6 is the number i keep hearing. 6 incidences in this country of warped leaking fuel tanks. and all of those owners reported that after the protracted period of high idling (without knowing the damage of course) they went to the station and fueled their cars. i dont know how many if any caught fire.
07-21-2005, 10:59 AM
#399
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The above post of five days back refreshes where we're at. Cars that have flooded are the ones most at risk of having suffered some level of underbody damage. The hi idle described in the recall comes into play after the flooded car has started. Some flooded cars are run at a high(ish) rpm (while stationary) for a few minutes until they idle steadily. This, it turns out, is when the damage is done. There is a bit more to it than what I've described, but that's the gist of it. We can't rule out damage to cars that haven't flooded though, rotaries run very high exhaust temps by design. I suppose that is why they are all going in for inspection/mod/repair.
A couple nights ago we were driving my car on the freeway, when suddenly we both got a good whiff of gasoline fumes. We both looked at each other and said, "Do you smell gas?!" We were about to pull it over when the smell disappeared. It was probably just some other car driving in front of us with the gas cap missing, but it had us spooked.
07-21-2005, 11:06 AM
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Hmm, I keep imagining myself looking like a flaming marshmallow over an open camp fire....
I flooded the damn thing TWICE. Okay, the first time I was just an idiot RX-8 owner new to rotaries. The SECOND time, I drove around the block a few times until the engine was warmed up, and it still flooded! After that they reflashed me and things have been great. Both floods were april/may 2004.
So if I crawl underneath, would the heat damage/warpage be noticeable to my untrained eye?
I flooded the damn thing TWICE. Okay, the first time I was just an idiot RX-8 owner new to rotaries. The SECOND time, I drove around the block a few times until the engine was warmed up, and it still flooded! After that they reflashed me and things have been great. Both floods were april/may 2004.
So if I crawl underneath, would the heat damage/warpage be noticeable to my untrained eye?