RECALL THREAD/MNAO suspend RX-8 deliveries.
07-15-2005, 03:52 PM
#226
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fray- they had to run the most recent flash past the epa and carb
dembo- no that is not an accurate assement. they know what is causing this issue and why. they know the results if you have this issue. they have the parts coming to fix the folks that have the issue and to prevent it happening to those that have no symptoms yet. they have aflash that will help make sure they circumstances that bring about the consequences dont happen in the future. or the short version- they know exactly what they are fixing and why.
dembo- no that is not an accurate assement. they know what is causing this issue and why. they know the results if you have this issue. they have the parts coming to fix the folks that have the issue and to prevent it happening to those that have no symptoms yet. they have aflash that will help make sure they circumstances that bring about the consequences dont happen in the future. or the short version- they know exactly what they are fixing and why.
07-15-2005, 04:20 PM
#227
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Originally Posted by dwynne
I think you read that wrong.
They were order to hold (not sell or lease) all new 04s and 05s on the lot. Then in the recall notice, they were told to inspect the group 2 cars and were to release them for sale if no damage after the flash. Any group 1 cars need parts so they have to continue to hold these cars.
They are not going to "hold" you car if you drop in for an oil change or something.
Dennis
They were order to hold (not sell or lease) all new 04s and 05s on the lot. Then in the recall notice, they were told to inspect the group 2 cars and were to release them for sale if no damage after the flash. Any group 1 cars need parts so they have to continue to hold these cars.
They are not going to "hold" you car if you drop in for an oil change or something.
Dennis
07-15-2005, 04:35 PM
#228
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Originally Posted by fray
PUR NRG, where are you seeing this required a CARB exemption?
________
1 4 in steel shot
Last edited by PUR NRG; 05-01-2011 at 06:28 AM.
07-15-2005, 05:30 PM
#229
From looking at the diagrams in the releases I am wondering if those of us who have installed catbacks with dual mufflers have not accidently helped this situation? Seems that by rerouting that heat could have helped. Or, is the heat coming more from the pipe before the mufflers?
I wonder also what the flash has to do with this?
olddragger
I wonder also what the flash has to do with this?
olddragger
07-15-2005, 06:00 PM
#231
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Originally Posted by olddragger
I wonder also what the flash has to do with this?
olddragger
olddragger
?Run too lean and you run hot, right? Best economy mixture can result in peak exhaust gas temps. So if they reprogram for richer than current settings then economy will go (farther) down but temps in the motor and exhaust will as well. Right?
Of course, they could make it complex where it just enriches if the car is not moving or moving below a certain speed. Then only when sitting (with no cooling airflow) it richens it up to keep from melting stuff. This would have no effect on most folk's MPG - only for those that sit a lot.
Remember when Caddy (I think it was) got into trouble when they were caught programming the computer to be clean at the EPA tail pipe test RPMs, but when you actually DROVE the car it was polluting like a big dog. Behold the power of the computer
Right?
Dennis
Last edited by dwynne; 07-15-2005 at 06:03 PM.
07-15-2005, 06:29 PM
#233
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If the gas tank needs replacement, it looks like the drive shaft will need to be disconnected/removed. The tank straddles the shaft from above but comes out of the car from the bottom. Have to take a look and see if the exhaust will need to be dropped too.
07-15-2005, 07:24 PM
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Per the service note for Group 2, I just crawled under my car to take a look at those rear body grommets. They look fine to me, no heat deformation or damage that I can see. Hopefully this is a good sign that my gas tank would be fine as well.
I know my car falls into Group 1 and will have different instructions, but that rear grommet inspection seems to be one of the key things to look at.
I know my car falls into Group 1 and will have different instructions, but that rear grommet inspection seems to be one of the key things to look at.
07-15-2005, 07:26 PM
#235
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Originally Posted by olddragger
From looking at the diagrams in the releases I am wondering if those of us who have installed catbacks with dual mufflers have not accidently helped this situation? Seems that by rerouting that heat could have helped. Or, is the heat coming more from the pipe before the mufflers?
olddragger
olddragger
07-15-2005, 07:42 PM
#236
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Originally Posted by jaedcem
That's one of my concerns. I'm considering an aftermarket exhaust (RB probably) and I wonder if an aftermarket exhaust would be different than the stock exhaust, as far as heat generation. Does anyone know yet whether this is more or less of a problem with other (non-stock) exhausts?
07-15-2005, 08:07 PM
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But the area of concern for heat damage is above the muffler, not the cat. If an aftermarket system is closer to the fuel tank than stock, then there would likely be more potential for damage.
07-15-2005, 08:09 PM
#238
He's as bad as Can
Originally Posted by jaedcem
That's one of my concerns. I'm considering an aftermarket exhaust (RB probably) and I wonder if an aftermarket exhaust would be different than the stock exhaust, as far as heat generation. Does anyone know yet whether this is more or less of a problem with other (non-stock) exhausts?
The attached photo is of my Greddy SP2 with 18,000 miles on it. You can see the pipes have turned gold do to the heat but the muffler has not turned color do to heat. In fact I can see some of the blue plastic still on one of them. Here is a link to what the SP2 looked like new LINK
Last edited by expo1; 07-15-2005 at 08:17 PM.
07-15-2005, 08:15 PM
#239
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Originally Posted by RX-Hachi
Per the service note for Group 2, I just crawled under my car to take a look at those rear body grommets. They look fine to me, no heat deformation or damage that I can see. Hopefully this is a good sign that my gas tank would be fine as well.
I know my car falls into Group 1 and will have different instructions, but that rear grommet inspection seems to be one of the key things to look at.
I know my car falls into Group 1 and will have different instructions, but that rear grommet inspection seems to be one of the key things to look at.
zoom, the file name for the reflash has "E" or "F" as the identifier. That's where I got the info re the flash ID. The latest WDS release level is 38.3, and came out on July 1. The "R" flash came out on release level 38.1. Have I missed something there?
Gomez.
07-15-2005, 08:17 PM
#240
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Originally Posted by jaedcem
But the area of concern for heat damage is above the muffler, not the cat. If an aftermarket system is closer to the fuel tank than stock, then there would likely be more potential for damage.
Gomez.
07-15-2005, 08:29 PM
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Oh - I assumed that the potental damage was in the area of the grommets. Is the actual damage (if any) really located near the cat, and not the muffler or pipe? If so, then a cat back system, even if a little hotter, would not be a big concern. And if most aftermarket systems run cooler anyway, then the point is moot. Thanks.
07-15-2005, 09:38 PM
#242
Originally Posted by RX-Hachi
My take is that folks that run their cars on a dyno quite a bit, or do high rpm 1/4 mi. launches on frequent basis, may fall into the potential problem group. I'd also be a bit worried if I were a Turbo owner. Turbos add even more heat.
07-16-2005, 05:23 AM
#245
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Originally Posted by olddragger
From looking at the diagrams in the releases I am wondering if those of us who have installed catbacks with dual mufflers have not accidently helped this situation? Seems that by rerouting that heat could have helped. Or, is the heat coming more from the pipe before the mufflers?
I wonder also what the flash has to do with this?
olddragger
I wonder also what the flash has to do with this?
olddragger
Mazda are using the bungs/grommets located above the rear muffler on the frame rails as an indicator of excessive underbody heat. If those bungs have melted, then the whole exhaust has gotten mighty hot. This will have occurred because of excessively high rpm for a indeterminate period while the car was at standstill, or possibly........because the car had flooded at some stage. If it had flooded, then gas could have been in excess inside the cat and lit off when the car started. This would have created very high cat/exhaust temps and may have caused damage to the components listed in the first post of this thread.
It is this flood theory that they are checking the Group 2 cars for, IMO. These cars are (by and large) still in dealer inventory. As they are new cars, they wouldn't have been thrashed while stationary, but may have been flooded.
We have seen many cat failures in US/Canadian RX-8's. Bugger all in the rest of the world. It is the considered opinion of a few learned people I have spoken to that these failures are caused by flooded cats. They overheat, then the substrate fails. A number of dealers have changed cats after repairing flooded cars, so this theory does hold up. Flooding has not been a large problem in other countries because they do not have your flashes. Your flashes were designed for local conditions/laws. Mazda have obviously had trouble getting it spot-on for your driving styles/weather conditions/environmental laws etc. This latest flash (which I believe is the "E" flash) will be installed in Group 2 cars to lower exhaust temps by modifying fuel delivery when the car is stationary at high rpm. IMO, it will also be installed into Group 1 cars, come the recall in August. The "M" flash pretty much stopped the avalanche of flooding in the US, minor tweaks since then have improved flashes further. The bigger battery also helped...along with the new starter. This latest flash will tweak further to address the recently discovered issue described in this recall.
olddragger, your aftermarket catback may cloud the diagnosis somewhat. It's my experience that aftermarket exhausts reduce the temps above the muffler assy where the bungs are located. So..... it's possible that your car may have experienced a high underbody temp and not melted the bungs. We haven't seen what they plan to do regarding inspection of Group 1 cars, this is something Mazda will have to take into consideration....(IMO!).
Cheers,
Gomez.
07-16-2005, 11:16 AM
#247
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I love to see folks dumping their cars at the first sign of a problem...makes buying one that much ea$ier. It's a great car, and making it more affordable is always nicer. And as far as resale value...who cares, I just keeps 'em 'til they're worn out.
It's a great car, and making it more affordable is always nicer. And as far as resale value...who cares, I just keeps 'em 'til they're worn out.
07-16-2005, 01:37 PM
#249
Thanks for that info man. I guess we will just have to wait and see. My gromlets look ok and I noticed that I already have some heat shields around my tanks. Maybe they just need a better ones AND the shield around the pipe. ANyway thanks for keeping us updated and we will see how all of this turns out. I am in group one for sure (bought in Dec 2003)
olddragger
olddragger
07-16-2005, 04:08 PM
#250
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Originally Posted by Hskr8
I have to admit, I've been thinking of selling, but not sure I can really part with this car, as for some reason, it's very special to me on sooo many levels... I hope this is just Mazda being proactive and that things will settle down eventually.
In a nutshell, someone said something about engineering needing to be simple, which I would agree with, and the rotary engine is exactly that. Im my opinion, Mazda has WAY over engineered this ECU stuff.
Keep is simple stupid.
Hskr8
In a nutshell, someone said something about engineering needing to be simple, which I would agree with, and the rotary engine is exactly that. Im my opinion, Mazda has WAY over engineered this ECU stuff.
Keep is simple stupid.
Hskr8
would you rather they go back to carburators instead of injection, and miles of vacuum hoses and valves instead of electric relays? This car, for all of its so-called complexity, is *still* a lot simpler than the '84 I had. That 7 had so much crap on it for emissions you couldn't see the engine.They've gotten it to the point where a simple ECU flash will accomplish what would've taken parts-swapping in the older injection cars, and hours upon hours with a screwdriver and a length of hose with a carb'd car.
You can thank the gub'mint for all this emissions-control. Trust me. It's a lot better today than it was 20 years ago. Let's not even discuss cars from 30 years ago. Stuff of nightmares.