New motor installed... Wont start
08-04-2010, 08:18 AM
#26
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Nevermind.
What I was thinking(even though you said you have spark) is that on the old Mazsport, remember there is one wire that you basically cut that comes from the alternator and you bring it over to the ignitor while you just tape up the other side of the cut.
Was thinking..depending on your harness situation you might have to see what was done with that wire. BUT...this is now a moot point based on your answers.
Oh well.
Not sure it would've really been the issue anyway.
Guess I was thinking maybe you weren't getting a full spark or something.
What I was thinking(even though you said you have spark) is that on the old Mazsport, remember there is one wire that you basically cut that comes from the alternator and you bring it over to the ignitor while you just tape up the other side of the cut.
Was thinking..depending on your harness situation you might have to see what was done with that wire. BUT...this is now a moot point based on your answers.
Oh well.
Not sure it would've really been the issue anyway.
Guess I was thinking maybe you weren't getting a full spark or something.
08-04-2010, 08:23 AM
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My first initial thought was timing or the e shaft sensor not getting a good read, but now i am also thinking a weak spark. Just get that feeling by how its turning over. Thats what got me thinking about the factory grounds on the cross brace just under the airbox. For some reason i am thinking there are three grounds to that brace plus my BHR harness. However i only remember hooking up two grounds to the brace plus my BHR harness. hmmm... maybe there are only two factory grounds there? That will be another thing i will have to look up when i get home.
08-04-2010, 09:27 AM
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foudn this pic in another thread... does this mean there are three ground wires that connect. pretty sure i only connected two.
Last edited by Phish806; 08-04-2010 at 09:29 AM.
08-04-2010, 07:51 PM
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OK, pull started the car. It does start but does not want to stay running. It will hold a constant smooth rpm if you feed it the gas for it. if you let off the gas it just falls right past idle and does not want to idle at all. also it breaks up around 3000 rpm if you try going any higher.
so all in all it seems to be missing and wont hold idle.
so all in all it seems to be missing and wont hold idle.
08-04-2010, 07:57 PM
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Well...............again no expert, but when I was helping a girl de-flood hers, we found a huge vacuum leak(busted hose connector) that wouldn't allow it to hold idle once I got it de-flooded????? The MAF was getting really wacko readings.
Did you get any CEL when you did get it started?
How long did you let it run for? Even though no higher than 3k, did ya go for a ride?
Will it now restart on it's own?
Oh, and I suppose you did the 20 brake pedal stomp right?
It could just be the ECU re-learning and might take two complete drive cycles.................but that usually won't limit you to 3k. It will/can make the car not want to idle.
I know I'm throwing out stupid random ****, but I am trying to give you ideas.
Did you get any CEL when you did get it started?
How long did you let it run for? Even though no higher than 3k, did ya go for a ride?
Will it now restart on it's own?
Oh, and I suppose you did the 20 brake pedal stomp right?
It could just be the ECU re-learning and might take two complete drive cycles.................but that usually won't limit you to 3k. It will/can make the car not want to idle.
I know I'm throwing out stupid random ****, but I am trying to give you ideas.
Last edited by Mazurfer; 08-04-2010 at 08:01 PM.
08-04-2010, 09:03 PM
#35
Steve: What are you using for an intake system? Does it have at least one screen and is the piping/coupling installed properly? Proper pipe sizing?
MM and I diagnosed a car presented to us recently with the exact same problems you describe and when we used a piece of screen from a hardware store in front of the MAF sensor, the car started and ran. Shitty, but it ran. The rest of the intake was a ghetto-fab job.
Last edited by Charles R. Hill; 08-04-2010 at 09:20 PM.
08-04-2010, 09:33 PM
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Well...............again no expert, but when I was helping a girl de-flood hers, we found a huge vacuum leak(busted hose connector) that wouldn't allow it to hold idle once I got it de-flooded????? The MAF was getting really wacko readings.
Did you get any CEL when you did get it started?
How long did you let it run for? Even though no higher than 3k, did ya go for a ride?
Will it now restart on it's own?
Oh, and I suppose you did the 20 brake pedal stomp right?
It could just be the ECU re-learning and might take two complete drive cycles.................but that usually won't limit you to 3k. It will/can make the car not want to idle.
I know I'm throwing out stupid random ****, but I am trying to give you ideas.
Did you get any CEL when you did get it started?
How long did you let it run for? Even though no higher than 3k, did ya go for a ride?
Will it now restart on it's own?
Oh, and I suppose you did the 20 brake pedal stomp right?
It could just be the ECU re-learning and might take two complete drive cycles.................but that usually won't limit you to 3k. It will/can make the car not want to idle.
I know I'm throwing out stupid random ****, but I am trying to give you ideas.
The longest time it ran for was maybe a minute with me holding the throttle steady at 1500ish rpms
It will not restart with the starter. Still needs pull started.
I know for a fact that its stock injectors in the p1 and p2 positions and the 1000cc injectors from esmeril int he secondary position (outsides of the fuel rail of four injectors)
. I remember the fuel injecor wiring. The first three injectors ( from the front of the car back) were in thier own section of harness and the fourth one cam from a seperate line off the main harness.
Wanna bet? How about explaining the A/F characteristics one might see that would indicate a given problem? How about 3 given problems?
Steve: What are you using for an intake system? Does it have at least one screen and is the piping/coupling installed properly? Proper pipe sizing?
MM and I diagnosed a car presented to us recently with the exact same problems you describe and when we used a piece of screen from a hardware store in front of the MAF sensor, the car started and ran. Shitty, but it ran. The rest of the intake was a ghetto-fab job.
Steve: What are you using for an intake system? Does it have at least one screen and is the piping/coupling installed properly? Proper pipe sizing?
MM and I diagnosed a car presented to us recently with the exact same problems you describe and when we used a piece of screen from a hardware store in front of the MAF sensor, the car started and ran. Shitty, but it ran. The rest of the intake was a ghetto-fab job.
08-04-2010, 09:57 PM
#37
for example :
*Vacuum leak before the turbo will cause a lean condition
*Boost leak after the turbo will cause a rich condition under boost and a lean condition out of boost
*wildy fluctuating AFR at cruise helped diagnose a faulty 02sensor
Last edited by Brettus; 08-04-2010 at 10:03 PM.
08-04-2010, 11:24 PM
#39
Nice. And all this is on a car that was starting, I presume. I guess I should have mentioned I was speaking in THIS particular context and in a manner which is directly helpful to Steve..
08-04-2010, 11:30 PM
#41
I know for a fact that its stock injectors in the p1 and p2 positions and the 1000cc injectors from esmeril int he secondary position (outsides of the fuel rail of four injectors). I remember the fuel injecor wiring. The first three injectors ( from the front of the car back) were in thier own section of harness and the fourth one cam from a seperate line off the main harness.
08-04-2010, 11:31 PM
#42
Yes, but that isn't important right now.
Please allow me to explain; I am trying to walk Steve through a very simple troubleshooting process that will have little/nothing to do with A/Fs or anything else which is very technical in nature. Steve's problem will turn out to be quite simple, actually.
Please allow me to explain; I am trying to walk Steve through a very simple troubleshooting process that will have little/nothing to do with A/Fs or anything else which is very technical in nature. Steve's problem will turn out to be quite simple, actually.
Last edited by Charles R. Hill; 08-04-2010 at 11:40 PM.
08-04-2010, 11:44 PM
#44
After a Couple of Bloody Snakebites......
.... let's see if I explain this correctly;
There are three pairs of fuel injectors and they are P1, Secondary, and P2 and they fire in that order as the RPMs/load increase.
The P1s are the red injectors.
The Secondaries are the outer two of the 4 yellows.
The P2s are the inner pair of the 4 yellows.
The P1s and Secondaries are usually kept at the OEM volumes.
The P2s are usually the ones people will replace with something like 750+ ccs/min.
Correct me if I have this wrong, please, Brett.
There are three pairs of fuel injectors and they are P1, Secondary, and P2 and they fire in that order as the RPMs/load increase.
The P1s are the red injectors.
The Secondaries are the outer two of the 4 yellows.
The P2s are the inner pair of the 4 yellows.
The P1s and Secondaries are usually kept at the OEM volumes.
The P2s are usually the ones people will replace with something like 750+ ccs/min.
Correct me if I have this wrong, please, Brett.
08-04-2010, 11:45 PM
#45
08-05-2010, 06:39 AM
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i could have swore that the 1000cc's were in the secondary position. I will have to ask around or find someone with the esmeril kit and figure out what should be done. I dont have an install instruction book or anything for the kit. Would it be affecting the starting of the car if i have the P2 and secondary injectors switched though? again this is a very good possibility but i am a curious mind.
Oh and dont mind yoru guys lil bickering haha... helps bump the thread and gives me a lil entertainment along the way. Thanks again for all the help guys. now i jsut need to figure out if my injectors are in as esmeril says
Oh and dont mind yoru guys lil bickering haha... helps bump the thread and gives me a lil entertainment along the way. Thanks again for all the help guys. now i jsut need to figure out if my injectors are in as esmeril says
08-05-2010, 07:12 AM
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looking on the boards and can not find anywhere where people are talking about the fuel injector locations for hte esmeril kit. However i did find this on esmerils sight:
Stage 1 (480 flywheel HP, Gas):
This is the same fuel upgrade that comes in our turbo kit. It flows enough fuel to support hp leves of 400whp and under. This will require a fuel management system since injectors are being changed. It is a drop in affair and includes the following:
1.1 X 255lph In tank Fuel Pump with harness.
2.2 X 1000cc Secondary Injectors.
3.Swap your stock secondary injectors into the primary injector possition.
I have not swapped the stock secondaries to the p1 position. At the time the kit came out this was not instructed to do so. But by this sight, the 1000cc injectors would be in the secondary position.
Stage 1 (480 flywheel HP, Gas):
This is the same fuel upgrade that comes in our turbo kit. It flows enough fuel to support hp leves of 400whp and under. This will require a fuel management system since injectors are being changed. It is a drop in affair and includes the following:
1.1 X 255lph In tank Fuel Pump with harness.
2.2 X 1000cc Secondary Injectors.
3.Swap your stock secondary injectors into the primary injector possition.
I have not swapped the stock secondaries to the p1 position. At the time the kit came out this was not instructed to do so. But by this sight, the 1000cc injectors would be in the secondary position.
08-05-2010, 07:59 AM
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Talked to Chris. He confirmed that the 1000cc injectors go in the secondary positions. so injectors are in the correct location. Only other injector issues would be if i got the wiring swapped around on them. I know that the one coming off the main harness is the rear injector so its correct. However the other three i would have to check again to make sure that they did not get switched around since they all come off thier own individual harness for injectors.
i will also do a vacuume test and see if it will hold vac or not. anything else i should try or look into. still thinking its a spark issue ( could alwasy swap back in the OEM coils and see what happens). That is if the injector wiring is not swapped.
i will also do a vacuume test and see if it will hold vac or not. anything else i should try or look into. still thinking its a spark issue ( could alwasy swap back in the OEM coils and see what happens). That is if the injector wiring is not swapped.