RosenthalMazda

Negative.

They updated the bulletin because they never said to reinstall the sensor in the original. Somewhere some dumb tech is going to leave off a level sensor.

You didn't see the disclaimer because I inadvertently snipped it off prior to posting it. IMO, the statement in the first one about all vehicles refers to all vehicles having it performed should refer to the following procedure. Not that everyone should have it done. They probably removed that statement because they realized, just like the installation omission, that it could be perceived incorrectly.

But I really think everybody in the vin range should get a new pan. :D

Tommy

markpmm

So the tech must duplicate the problem exactly before the TSB applies?

RosenthalMazda

That is how the system is designed. But some service advisors have seen it enough to go ahead and perform the fix. That is how it shou,ld be done. Others just like to be confrontational and must think the money comes out of their pocket or something.

Tommy

eccles

TSB's are Mazda's way of saying "if a customer is experiencing this particular problem, here's how to fix it." There's no point in replacing the sump on every car in the VIN range, because the vast majority of those cars will never be driven under the required conditions of sustained high speed and low oil level, so the customers will never see the CEL. But if a customer does experience the symptoms, Mazda has documented the necessary fix.

"Verify the problem" can be as simple as confirming with the customer the conditions under which the light came on - there is no need for the service writer to actually see it come on with his own eyes.

And yes, many dealerships will apply TSB's proactively for customers who are concerned that they may experience the affected conditions. It's warranty work after all, for which they get reimbursed by Mazda - if they decline, they're just denying themselves income.

Luckily for us Austinites, the good folks at Mazda South are among those that stay on top of TSB's and are happy to apply them on request.

Mitch Strickler

As I understand the oil pan situation, Mazda has discovered (acknowleded) that early 8s came with an oil pan which can cause problems under certain kinds of non-abusive use. Apparently Mazda was not satisfied with this level of reliability, and could fix it with a redesign, probably at little or no cost. So they did so, for subsequent production.
That leaves those of us with inferior oil pans. What's the appropriate response? Wait until something bad happens -- perhaps after warranty expires? That is reality for owners who don't follow the forum, search out bulletins elsewhere, or have caring dealers who inform them of the potential problem. My view: Mazda ought to have instructed dealers to tell owners with those VINs of the situation, and given them the option of free replacement. I would agree that it is probably unnecessary to replace the pans for drivers who do not intend to drive hard, ever, but that should be their choice. Using myself as an example, I do not expect to do sustained hard driving on the road, but I will take the car to a track one or two times. I should not have to cut a session short, because of problems with a design that is below Mazda's own standard, before a fix is made. In fact I won't, because my dealer agreed -- after seeing the original bulletin -- to do the replacement. BTW, Tommy, I am a lawyer who has some expertise in interpretation. Regardless of what the writer of the first bulletin intended, the best interpretation of the actual words is that all early-VINs get the fix.

Mitch Strickler

As I understand the oil pan situation, Mazda has discovered (acknowleded) that early 8s came with an oil pan which can cause problems under certain kinds of non-abusive use. Apparently Mazda was not satisfied with this level of reliability, and could fix it with a redesign, probably at little or no cost. So they did so, for subsequent production.
That leaves those of us with inferior oil pans. What's the appropriate response? Wait until something bad happens -- perhaps after warranty expires? That is reality for owners who don't follow the forum, search out bulletins elsewhere, or have caring dealers who inform them of the potential problem. My view: Mazda ought to have instructed dealers to tell owners with those VINs of the situation, and given them the option of free replacement. I would agree that it is probably unnecessary to replace the pans for drivers who do not intend to drive hard, ever, but that should be their choice. Using myself as an example, I do not expect to do sustained hard driving on the road, but I will take the car to a track one or two times. I should not have to cut a session short, because of problems with a design that is below Mazda's own standard, before a fix is made. In fact I won't, because my dealer agreed -- after seeing the original bulletin -- to do the replacement. BTW, Tommy, I am a lawyer who has some expertise in interpretation. Regardless of what the writer of the first bulletin intended, the best interpretation of the actual words is that all early-VINs get the fix.

Mitch Strickler

As I understand the oil pan situation, Mazda has discovered (acknowleded) that early 8s came with an oil pan which can cause problems under certain kinds of non-abusive use. Apparently Mazda was not satisfied with this level of reliability, and could fix it with a redesign, probably at little or no cost. So they did so, for subsequent production.
That leaves those of us with inferior oil pans. What's the appropriate response? Wait until something bad happens -- perhaps after warranty expires? That is reality for owners who don't follow the forum, search out bulletins elsewhere, or have caring dealers who inform them of the potential problem. My view: Mazda ought to have instructed dealers to tell owners with those VINs of the situation, and given them the option of free replacement. I would agree that it is probably unnecessary to replace the pans for drivers who do not intend to drive hard, ever, but that should be their choice. Using myself as an example, I do not expect to do sustained hard driving on the road, but I will take the car to a track one or two times. I should not have to cut a session short, because of problems with a design that is below Mazda's own standard, before a fix is made. In fact I won't, because my dealer agreed -- after seeing the original bulletin -- to do the replacement. BTW, Tommy, I am a lawyer who has some expertise in interpretation. Regardless of what the writer of the first bulletin intended, the best interpretation of the actual words is that all early-VINs get the fix.

eccles

The problem is with the warning light sensor, which may illuminate the light before the oil actually gets too low. The pan is replaced as a unit, but the only change is to the sensor that is mounted in it. There is no problem with the oil pan itself, so nobody's going to lunch their engine because of it - if anything, it has the opposite effect of prompting folks to check their oil more often.

If it was the other way around, with the light NOT coming on when there was a serious oil shortage, then yes, I agree it should be retrofitted to all cars whether the owner knows to ask for it or not. But as it is, I think Mazda is quite justified in their approach of only fitting it if the customer encounters the circumstances required to trigger it, or if they ask for it explicitly. This procedure costs Mazda money, and I'd just as soon they keep their costs down by not necessarily fitting this part to cars that are never likely to encounter the problem.

If you plan on doing track work, and don't plan on checking your oil before each session, then a spurious warning light is probably a good thing. Seriously, if you keep your oil topped up then you're never going to see the light anyway!

[Edit] That's not aimed at you, Mitch, but rather at the generic you.

racerdave

Mitch, do us all a favor and delete some of those repeat posts...

klegg

Let me give you some advice, one lawyer to another...DO NOT tell people here you are in the legal field!!!


TRUST ME ON THIS.......

rx8cited

klegg,

Interesting that you're not taking your own advice on this by letting us know you are a lawyer .

rx8cited

PS: Mitch, I second racerdave's request for you to delete your repeated duplicate posts - you seem to do this quite often. Bad computer ?

RosenthalMazda

All I'm saying (for the last time, I promise) is that unfortunately, dealers are going to take this "I need to see it" approach. In my 20 years as a parts guy for Mazda this is the standard. It's also my opinion that it's Mazda's 'whatever-you-want-to-call-it' policy.

My other opinion is that if you run into this approach to bulletins, lose the days pay, rental car fees or what have you and drive to a "friendly" dealer. I would. With all the members here I'm sure we can find one in most areas. Taking that whole legal interpretation thing to court does nothing but **** you off and make some folks uncomfortable with your presence.

Not a sermon, just a thought.

And if I may get away with a small shameless here...

Steve Miller in my service department is a friendly. Just tell him I said so.


Tommy

klegg

Pretty much everyone who has been a member for more then three months knows it....

S3/P3/E2

Tommy,

I'm in the process of readying to move to the metro area up there from California. With all the stuff you guys have done like the online TSB's (and a good customer service oriented attitude), you guys will be certain to get some business once I get there.

rx8cited

[QUOTE]Originally posted by klegg
Let me give you some advice, one lawyer to another...DO NOT tell people here you are in the legal field!!!

klegg - What happened when people found out you're a lawyer? You started getting requests for free legal advice? /rx8cited

sun stroke

I was just at my dealer talking to the head tech about some of the TSB's and he gave some details about the oil light. He did tell me they could do the change on the oil pan if I wanted to arrange it.

But, and I think this was mentioned, he also said it is not a problem if you keep the car full. The problem is that on long runs as it gets hot and the oil begins to bubble up (his description) the sensor gets confused and thinks it is low. I was told there is no real danger to the motor at all.

Also, said there is another new ECU reflash that just came out to fix the thermostat engine light issue.

If you are going to a dealer that won't discuss these things with you or bring them up when you ask what is new with the 8 then find another one. Now that many of us have the free service cards they all want are business since they are able to bill Mazda directly (at top rates) for servicing our cars, make them earn it!

rx8cited

Hello Everyone ,

FYI - Spark Plug Info - Parts Flash Issued 1/12/04

http://www.finishlineperformance.com...h_rf04-04.html

Enjoy,
rx8cited

241Commuter

You beat me to it. So, hot plugs are for colder climes or cars used for mainly short-distance travel. This leaves open a lot of questions - for another thread.

klegg

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rx8cited

Quote:

Originally posted by klegg
Let me give you some advice, one lawyer to another...DO NOT tell people here you are in the legal field!!!

klegg - What happened when people found out you're a lawyer? You started getting requests for free legal advice? /rx8cited

No, I got attacked, flamed, insulted, and stalked in addition to death threats.....most of it from two demented psychos who no longer vist us (thank god!). And no, I am not joking!

gordonp

Sorry if this has already been adressed in this or another thread (too many postings to go through) but has anybody noticed their oil pressure gauges running a little off center? Mine has been two clicks to the right of center since I bought the car and my dealer just told me it was OK with no explanation.

Thanks in advance.

eccles

If your gauge ever moves away from that position, you should be concerned. It's not a real analog gauge, but a glorified idiot light - as long as you have any pressure over a low threshold, the gauge will sit rock solid at that point. If it ever moves, it will be to drop to Zero, and you'd better shut things down ASAP.

gordonp

Thanks. It has never moved from that position so I guess everyhing is OK.

silvercloud

Mine has been in the exact same position as yours for 6000 miles
- it's OK

RosenthalMazda

We just updated the page again.

http://www.finishlineperformance.com...ocs/index.html

Tommy

Go4It

Thanks Tommy!!