mkztg

yeah pretty much... rediculous huh..

mkztg

I have been trying to find anything that will try and answer WTF is going on with my car. I found this at another site but I haven't had any recent issues with jump starts or batteries (not since November anyway). And yes, my VIN is after the one listed.. Maybe I do only need to get reflashed.. Monday I will go down to the Mazda place and see if they will help me out.


"Subject: Bulletin No: 01-010/04
MIL ILLUMINATION WITH DTC P2107, P2108 OR P2109
Last Issued: 2/26/2004

APPLICABLE MODEL(S) / VINS

2004 RX-8

• A/T: After VIN JM1FE17N*40132580
• M/T: After VIN JM1FE173*40132647
DESCRIPTION

Some vehicles may experience MIL illumination with DTC P2107, P2108 or P2109 stored in memory after jump
starting the engine due to a discharged (dead) battery.
-P2107: Throttle actuator control module processor error (Sub CPU/RAM/ROM inoperative)
.


-P2108: Throttle actuator control module performance error (Sub - Main CPU communication error)
.
-P2109: TP sensor minimum stop range/performance problem.


DTCs setting into PCM memory may be caused by improper PCM calibration. Customers having this concern
should have their vehicles repaired using the following repair procedure.


REPAIR PROCEDURE

1.
Using WDS B29.2 or later software, reprogram the PCM to the latest calibration (refer to “Calibration Information” table) by following the “Module Reprogramming” procedure.
NOTE:

•
Always update the WDS PTU first, then install the needed calibration file that WDS shows during PCM reprogramming. Go to “WDS Calibration” on ESI and download the “update” file. If the
PTU is not updated to the latest WDS calibration level, the calibration file will not install into the
PTU.
•
It is not necessary to remove any fuses or relays during PCM reprogramming when the WDS
screen prompts you to do so. You may accidentally stop power to one of the PCM terminals and
cause the PCM to be blanked, or you may receive error messages during the WDS reprogramming procedure.
•
WDS shows the calibration part numbers after programming the PCM.
•
Please be aware that PCM calibration part numbers and file names listed in any Service Bulletin
may change due to future releases of WDS software, and additional revisions made to those
calibrations for service related concerns.
•
When reprogramming a PCM, WDS will always display the “latest” calibration P/N available for
that vehicle. If any calibration has been revised/updated to contain new information for a new
service concern/issue, it will also contain all previously released calibrations.
•
When performing this procedure, if the WDS PTU is not docked and connected to 115V-120V,
we recommend that a battery charger be installed on the vehicle battery and turned ON to a
maximum charge of no more than 20 AMPS to keep the vehicle battery up to capacity. If you
exceed 20 AMPS, it will damage the WDS PTU.

Bulletin No: 01-010/04
© 2004 Mazda Motor of America, Inc.
Last Issued: 2/26/2004
2.
After performing the PCM reprogramming procedure, make sure to perform “Self-Test”, ALLCMDTCs and
erase any stored DTCs that appear after the reprogramming.
•
If any DTCs should remain after performing DTC erase, diagnose the DTCs according to the appropriate
Troubleshooting section of the Workshop Manual.
NOTE:
It is normal for some U**** DTCs and possibly C1119 to be stored after reprogramming modules
with WDS. After the DTCs are erased, no DTCs should be present.

3.
Place an “Authorized Modification” label (P/N 9999-95-AMDC-97) with the new calibration information near
the Emission Control Information Label located on the hood or in the engine compartment.
4.
Verify repair.
NOTE:
After reprogramming a PCM, it is necessary to road test the vehicle to relearn KAM (Keep Alive
Memory) strategy and verify no MIL illumination or DTC’s are present.

CALIBRATION INFORMATION

Transmission New PCM Calibration Part
Number
File Name
A/T N3H4-18-881L SW-N3H4EL000
M/T N3H6-18-881L SW-N3H6EL000

WARRANTY INFORMATION
NOTE:
•
This warranty information applies only to verified customer complaints on vehicles eligible for warranty repair. Refer to the SRT microfiche for warranty term information.
•
Additional diagnostic time cannot be claimed for this repair.
Warranty Type A
Symptom Code 6X
Damage Code 9W
Part Number Main Cause ****-18-881
Quantity 0
Operation Number / Labor Hours: XX648XRX / 0.3 Hrs. "

•
This warranty information applies only to verified customer complaints on vehicles eligible for warranty repair. Refer to the SRT microfiche for warranty term information.
•
Additional diagnostic time cannot be claimed for this repair.
Warranty Type A
Symptom Code 6X
Damage Code 9W
Part Number Main Cause ****-18-881
Quantity 0
Operation Number / Labor Hours: XX648XRX / 0.3 Hrs.

G3tR3DDY2GR3DDY

iTrader: (8)

sounds to me like you need a reflash, should be under warranty. If not i have a PCM i could send you. just lmk

mkztg

Thanks Gr3ddy... The Germans don't recognize a US warranty, you would think a Mazda warranty is a Mazda warranty. It is only .3 hrs of labor so it shouldn't be too expensive, if they can even do it.

I may take you up on the PCM if the dealer here doesn't want to cooperate, plus Mazda will get an email about their quality of service - we'll see how it goes.

If you don't mind - PM me the details about the PCM in case that is the route we have to go. I will get the parts back to you this week. Sorry it has been so long.

mkztg

mkztg

So today I made it to the German Mazda Dealership. After getting the retarded guy at the desk to shut up, I am able to talk to their lead mechanic he starts reading the TSB that google translated for me. He explains that the flash he has is for German RX-8s and not US. After talking about it we both decide it can't hurt the car. He flashes the car but it doesn't work. The fault is still plaguing me. He said he would call the other Mazda Mechanics he knows and see if they have every run into this problem before. He is beginning to think it is a bad wire somewhere. I'm going to call back tomorrow afternoon and see what new info he was able to dig up, if any. In a nut shell, its still broke and pissing me off...

mkztg

Vyndictive

iTrader: (28)

Hang in there... someone will get to the bottom of this.

mkztg

Thanks Vyn. I sure hope so. The best part is, I had it working long enough to get it to pass inspection (because it was due for re-registration) before it crapped out on me again. Now I have to get it fixed before I can ship it. I seriously doubt the shipping company will accept it with the problems its having.

Everything I can think of just seems like I grasping at straws.. Maybe a wire, maybe both throttle bodys were bad? That is just highly unlikely.. I am just out of ideas...

As for the PCM replacement, the problem I have with that is, my PCM has all of the immobilization information in it and the way I understand it you can't just swap out PCMs without some programming... Correct me if I'm wrong...

Thanks again everyone - If you come up with any ideas, anything at all, throw them out and I will give it a shot. I certainly don't have anything else to try.

mkztg

mkztg

I was browsing the site and found this link in one of the other threads: http://foxed.ca/rx7manual/2003mazdarx8/

I used that and found some wiring harness tests..

I attached the one I'll be testing tomorrow, its starting to snow even more outside and my carport doesn't help much

mkztg

mkztg

For those who have been helping me...

Three days later the snow is finally melting and it got warm enough for me to work on the car (and I made some time and left work early )

I did the tests on the TB wire harness back to the PCM. The PCM wire harnesses are a pain in the ***, they are labeled but not large enough to see with my eyes.

I was finally able to get some of the wires to ohm out but not consistently. I still wasn't convinced that the wires are bad until I decided to only wiggle the wires connected to the TB wire harness instead of unplugging and plugging to get the DSC/TCS light to go out and have the car run correctly.

That worked. - wiggling the wires worked.. Again, I am grabbing at straws here but maybe it is just the wire harness at the TB.

The update from the German Mazda place: "The master mechanic that was helping you is at a conference and he said he will bring up your problem to his peers. Call back tomorrow, he should be back then." I'm wondering why they kept telling me to call back tomorrow, call back tomorrow.. let us get your number, we will call you... (they never once called me).

At least I was able to get the troubleshooting procedures online in the meantime.

Anyone have an extra wire harness for the TB laying around?

I doubt Mazda Germany will fix this under warranty, they don't do SH!* for free here.

I just thought I would update you all with what I discovered today. Again, any ideas that you think would be helpful - I am all ears.

Thanks.

mkztg

mkztg

I finally got the German Mazda place to give me 5 minutes on the phone. The verdict - We have no idea. That was it, not even a but you can bring it in and we can help you figure it out. Just the, "We don't know, this doesn't happen to the German RX-8s." Really???

My mechanically inclined friend finally got back today and I talked him through everything I had done up to this point, including the wiggling the wires. He was thinking the same thing as me - the wire harness at the throttle body.

He took the harness off and too a look at it, gave each of the wires a gentle tug back and forth with his leatherman pliers. The wire in the close up picture (attached) moved just slightly, more so than the other wires. He pushed the wire in with a little more force.

He plugged it back in to the throttle body and we started it. No fault... I cleared the CEL and let the car idle a little bit so I don't shut it off cold.

Shut off the car - waited until the engine did its turn off cycling (the throttle body and a relay reset when you turn off the car). Then I started up the car. No faults whatsoever. I repeated this a total of 5 times with him in the passenger seat. He gave me his chuckle of - what do you mean its not working....

We went inside for a brief time and he suggested that if I can get another harness with as much wire attached I should do so - just incase.

So far its working (again) fine. I will keep my fingers crossed each and every time I start her up from now until the day she gets back to the US.

Here is my request to anyone that is junking an 8 or knows where to find them (Gr3ddy maybe? ) - If you can get the wire harness (circled in the larger picture) with as much wire still attached - please PM me and let me know if we can make a deal.

Thanks again for all the help I have got from Jon, Gr3ddy, and Vyn. You guys are great!

mkztg

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

Wow... hopefully that was it mkztg.
Keep us posted and let us know how things go the next few days.

Vyndictive

iTrader: (28)

wow... after all that nonsense it was a wiring harness huh... gotta love electrical problems.

You may be able to pull the wiring harness apart and solder some of the connections (if you have a steady hand)

But I think you should be able to pick up a wiring harness for pretty cheap and I'm sure the vendors can help you out if you request it. They may just sell you the entire wire bundle... so replacing it may be a pain in the ***.

I would try to solder some of the connections and then clean it with electrical contact cleaner.

mkztg

Vyn - I'll give that idea a try but I don't think I can get into that harness without breaking it. I can't find any parts in any junk yard around here. Its to the point where I can't wait to get back to the US just so I can get parts for my car without a huge problem.

But here is my latest update:

Its been a few days and so far not too many issues. Thursday evening the car faulted when I went out to meet up with my wife for something, I went under the hood and pushed the wires into the harness as much as I could and it started up right away. After the third time of starting without the fault present the CEL went out on its own - bonus.. I hadn't got around to resetting it with my code reader.

I think I just need to take some more detailed picks of the harness and post in the parts WTB and for sale thread and hopefully someone will be in a position to pull the harness I need from a non-op car that is being parted out anyway.. something like that.

Anyway - again - thanks for all the help everyone. This site and its members are truly a very valuable source of information.

mkztg

mkztg

Its been almost a month and the car has been starting up every time with no issues.

Since then I got a replacement harness with about 6-8 inches of wire - just in case.

Yesterday (the same day we shipped out other car back to the US) the 8 faulted out again. Same thing as it has been doing. I went under the hood, wiggled the TB sensor harness and the car started up no problem.

Today I decided I would swap out the harness with the new one so there won't be any issues when I ship my car in about 50 days. I have a wire terminal kit so I did all the unwrapping of the tape on the harness - cut off the old harness - leaving as much wire as possible. I then wired in the new harness. Everything was going smooth. I even crossed my fingers before starting the car.

----- Same problem. NOW WHAT.. I am back at square one. This is absolutely frustrating. When the car faults, I turn off the engine - literally wiggle the wires - and then it will start fine (with the CEL but who cares at the moment)

I seriously doubt that the TB or the pedal are bad. I swapped out with ones from Gr3ddy and I had the exact same results. The likely-hood of having two bad parts giving me the same fault are just too high for me to entertain that as an option. I returned those parts to Gr3ddy already (thanks for the help).

Today I decided to call a Mazda dealership in my home town and see if they can at least have some fresh eyes on this. You guys have been of great help but like I said - it is getting down to the wire to ship this car and it has to be working to ship it so it can't hurt to ask them for help.

I would love to go back to the German Mazda dealership but when they looked me in the eye and told me, "German RX-8's don't do this so we can't help." Thats why I decided to call a US dealer for help.

If you all have any other things I can try - anything... let me know.

I can tell you that the rewiring I have done is 100% correct and I don't think it is contributing to the problem. I didn't do the rewire until it faulted out again on its own.

Thanks guys!

mkztg

Ok: The Mazda dealer I contacted in the US (my home town) called me back (+1 compared to the German dealership who has never - ever called me back) and they confirm that what thought back on the #102 post.

https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=102

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

mkztg- So it ended up being the PCM all along?
Still weird that jiggling the wires "helped" in this situation if the PCM is the culprit.
But I'm out of ideas so if it works... great!

mkztg

Jon,

Thanks though for all the guidance you provided throughout this thread. I just can't wait to get my car back to the US where I can get it taken care of and not get 'euro' nickeled and dimed to death. I just hope I can get my 8 to behave normally for the duration of the shipping like it has for the past [almost] month.



One of the positive things out of this: I do know a hellava lot more about my car since this happend.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

At least some good came from this

mkztg

I was thinking (that can be dangerous sometimes)...

Any thoughts on whether the Racing Beat PCM Reflash would be able to fix my problem?

If the car really needs a PCM reflash as described in this TSB: ( https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=102 ) Do you think the service that Racing Beat provides could work?

I am going to give them a call when they open on Monday but I thought it couldn't hurt to ask here. I called the dealership back in the US and asked them if I could pull my PCM and send to them to flash but they told me they aren't set up to do it without it being in the car (a same year and model) because they use the ODB port to do the flash. I guess Racing Beat is setup better to do this.

Thoughts? Opinions? Thanks.

mkztg

mkztg

Just an update - because now I am even more perplexed. I probably should have contacted Racing Beat like I started thinking I should but right now its just too late in the game. I have to ship my car very soon and its the only vehicle I have so it isn't feasible now. damn...

As of late, the car will intermittently work correctly. More often then not though when I first start it, it will fault. If I just turn off the car and pull the key I can sit quietly and listen to the engine performs its usual noises when I turn off the car. In the past it was at this point I would go and wiggle the TB sensor connector. As of late, I don't even need to do that. Once I hear the TB and fuse box make their "whirr and click" I can just start the car up and it works fine. The CEL is still there but that because the code is still in the memory.

The other major problem that has started happening is the engine will fault and the DSC/TCS light will come on while I am driving down the road. The only thing that happens is I don't have any throttle and I have to clutch and find a place to pull over, turn off the car and do as I just described.

Does this still sound like a PCM problem or is the TB actually starting to fail? Any ideas or help would be great. I have just about 35 days until I have to ship my car and while it has a work around I still want to try and fix it if possible.

Thanks to all.

mkztg

Razz1

Ok sorry I never read this earlier.

Three things. Have you tried re-seting the ECU normally, see stickie or disconnect battery for ten minutes, don't forget the brake stomp and sweep.

Just in case the PCM is holding the code and not clearing. This option doesn't make sense since the dealer reflashed.

Second Unplug wiring harnes clean female with CRC or other electrical connector, Let dry or use can of air for computers to dry it plug back in.

Check the drive by wire. There is a connector that always gets dirty. Clean it. You will have to search for Power steering problem on forum. I'm not sure the first connector you cleaned was the correct one. (haven't addressed the fly by wire possibility yet)

Lastly, is it possible when you rewired the harness but it has a short farther down the line under the car where a rodent chewd into it?

I hope you find out it is a dirty power steering connector or female TB connector.

Otherwise have it reflashed in USA if you can get it here. If problem reoccurs after reflash need new PCM.

Edit: Power steering conectors. These are located below the tray that the air filter box sits on. There are 2 of them. do more searching and you will find pictures. This means you have to remove the air box and the tray. Umm.. maybe if its up on jacks you can see it from the bottom if you remove the black panel.

Good Luck

mkztg

Razz,

Thanks for taking the time to read through this very long thread to help me. I have been resetting the PCM with the code reader but I have at various times also disconnected the battery, done the brake stomp and sweep.

I have not actually used any electrical connector cleaner on the harness but I will try and find some to do that.

I will do more research on the drive by wire connector but is that what you refer to in the edit? the connectors are underneath the air filter box?

As for the possibility that the wire harness has a short further down from where I replaced it: yes that is a possibility but I just can't get in there to inspect it in more detail other then verifying the black plastic wire wrap is still intact all the way from the harness down to where it meets other lines that then combine to a larger bundle of wires (wrapped in black plastic wire wrap and then plug into the PCM.

I appreciate all the ideas and I will post my results here ASAP. My kids don't have baseball practice today so its about the only day I have after work to do anything significant to the car.

mkztg

Razz1

Yes, the edit is for the location of the fly by wires.

Just make sure everything is installed correctly so you don't get an air leak and cell/misfire.

Time to shake out the air filter/clean or replace while your at it.

mkztg

I thought it would be appropriate to share what the final solution was, especially for those who helped me so much!

The same day that my car was delivered the CEL was on and it had the same indications of a fault, I'm so glad it made it here without any issues... I drove it right over to the local Mazda dealership and explained everything that had been done up to that point and brought up the TSB that we had found that applied to my situation.

The service manager looked at me with a blank stare - my guess was because I knew what I was talking about.

It took them a week of doing their own diagnostics and it ended up being....

a BAD PCM. They tried to just reflash it but it was physically bad I guess. It and all the labor involved was covered under warranty.

The only thing I actually paid for was to have them check the AC while it was there too..

The only problem I saw was the lack of communication from the service manager to me. I had to call him for updates. I didn't think it was asking too much for a quick call at the end of each day to let me know whats going on with the car - even if they hadn't figured it out. When they did figure out it was the PCM he did call me to tell me that a new one was coming in and it 'should' fix it. The next day I got a call to bring in all my keys so they could add them to the the PCM for me. They even added my additional flip key for me so I wouldn't have to later.

Sooo.. it was a bad PCM and it was replaced for free by Mazda.

Again, thanks to all who helped me through this journey of learning more about my car then I ever had hoped for.

mkztg

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

Wow... glad you FINALLY got it fixed!
And to have everything covered under warranty is definitely a plus too.

Thanks for coming back and sharing with everyone.