mkztg

No, no meets here.


Very true. I only have about 6 months left until I leave but it can't hurt to be available to help them with anything they need before I leave too. - I have a code scanner now, that may be of use to some of the local 8s too.

mkztg

This is frustrating. If I was in the states I could get this part the same day. Apparently the local Mazda place doesn't stock any relays. I got told - "Maybe by Monday"

I'm gonna order the relay from ebay if I can confirm they will ship to my APO address. Unless Gr3ddy can get a relay for me.

I am starting to run out of time - My car has to be reinspected by the end of Feburary or I can't drive it. The US Army Europe and Germany has lots of rules governing cars.

I just thought I would update those who have been watching and participating in this thread.

Thanks everyone!

PS - I couldn't find all those 8s today that I have been seeing all over post so I couldn't even ask to 'borrow' a relay.

mkztg

So here it is Monday and when I call about the relay I get told - "maybe tomorrow". Its like there isn't a single Mazda dealer in Bavaria that has the part I need.

I have ordered one online and I hope it gets here soon. While searching for any information I could find about the ETV relay I came across this wire diagram on autozone's website. I thought I would put it up here for general knowledge. I have circled the ETV relay in the diagram and the pinout of the relay.

Just waiting for my part to show. I still need to get the parts back to Gr3ddy. He has been GREAT helping me like he has. Gr3ddy - you are an invaluable member of the club in my opinion. Thank you.

mkztg

UPDATE: Right after posting this I notice the link between the ETV relay and the EGI INJ 15A fuse. I had checked the ETV 15A fuse last week while troubleshooting with Jon316G. The ETV 15A fuse was a little corroded but there was no visible break in the fuse and it passed when I checked it for continuity on my multimeter. Back to the EGI INJ 15A fuse - I pulled that one and saw that it was corroded too, it also passed a continuity check with a multimeter but I swapped it out with the 15A spare located in the fuse box at the drivers feet.

I started up the car and the car started up right away, I turned off the car - waited 5 minutes and tried again. It worked again. I grabbed my code reader and cleared out the CEL and then started the car up again - no fault. Again I waited another 5 minutes and again - it started right up again.

It looks like it was a corroded fuse - the fuse wasn't blown just corroded. All the swapping out of parts and it was a fuse.... Tomorrow morning when I get up for work and it starts up again with no problems I will be 100 % satitfied this wasn't just a fluke. Until then - Thanks to everyone who has helped me on this problem that turned out to be so simple.

2nd Update: The car started up no problem this morning. I am going to get new fuses for everything in the engine compartment as I can find them. They might have some in our AAFES care care center but that is a pretty big streach. Thanks again for everyones help.

Gr3ddy - I will be sending back the parts to you. I'll PM you when it is mailed off.

Another update below.....

mkztg

mkztg

The car has been working fine since the update I made to the previous post until... today...

I got my car inspected today - it has to be done every 2 years here in Germany. The car was fine, no fault / CEL during the inspection - passed with flying colors...

I get in the car to start it up and drive off and the same indications (DSC/TCS light stays on) and the CEL come back on.. and the same problem with the RPMs.

I am able to pull off into the parking lot going very slow and I go in to do the registration paperwork. I come back out and without doing anything I start the car right up and the DSC/TCS light goes out but the CEL is still here - of course.

So I drive the car back home and grab my code reader, I pull the code and its the P2109 again. I clear the CEL and turn everything off. I start the car up and its happening all over again.

I checked the new fuses and they are clean and not blown. I even got the new relay in the mail today too - so I figured maybe it was the relay too... I swap it out with the new one, clear the codes and - NOPE...

I am back at square one. OMG.. now what? I still have the parts Gr3ddy sent me, I could try swapping those out again but I just don't know.

Any thoughts??

Thanks.

mkztg

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

Wow mkztg....
I have to read back through this whole thread to figure out what we have done so far.
This is crazy!

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

Have you checked to see if those fuses are corroded again?
Corrosion will create more resistance in the circuit which is not good.
Might be worth going through all the fuses and inspect the terminals.
Clean the fuses that are corroded with a wire brush.

mkztg

Jon,

I did one better and replaced all the 15A fuses with new ones, they weren't expensive. I will go through and check the 10A and 20A fuses for corrosion.

While taking a look at the pedal sensor wiring harness I noticed that it was connected to a small black box that was taped up with electrical tape up above the pedal. I can take a picture of it if need be.. but that is the next thing I think I need to check - Just wouldn't know where to start or if that part even matters..

At least this worked long enough to pass inspection - which was my near term goal. Now I have to make sure it is fixed in time to ship the car back to the US. I can only imagine the look on the shippers eyes when the thing faults out and I have to show them how to fix it... I will get a .. no, fix it and we will ship it..

Thanks for getting back to me so quick Jon.

mkztg

mkztg

I made a short video of what happens with this crazy fault that keeps coming back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP7WcNODICk

If you have clairification questions let me know...

mkztg

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

WOW......
And that thing jumped to 4750rpm after a restart.....
The clicking was probably just the contacts in the relays, which is fine.
Damn... let me think about this one.
Maybe someone else can chime in and help out too.

Thanks for the video, wish we can have this all the time while troubleshooting.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

Straight from the Shop Manual:

DTC P2109
Detection Condition:

• The PCM monitors the minimum TP when the closed TP learning is complete.
  If the TP is less than 11.5% or more than 24.3%, the PCM determines that there is a TP sensor minimum stop range/performance problem.

Possible Cause:

• Drive-by-wire control system malfunction
• Throttle actuator malfunction
• Throttle valve malfunction
• PCM malfunction

Still don't have anything else to try yet, just wanted to post this......
Strange that you had different experiences with the relays swapped and taking care of some corroded fuses!

Vyndictive

iTrader: (28)

Reading through everything again - I would lean to a possible PCM malfunction where it is just doing some "screwy" stuff. It sounds like you've either inspected or replaced the other parts included... and the fact that seems to be intermittent leads me to think its electronic.

mkztg

Jon,

I had to go back at watch it just to make sure but I pressed the gas when I started it that time. (the 4750rpm)

When it jumps and stays between 2k and 3k rpms with the fault I am not pressing the pedal at all, that is where it is idling at when the fault rears its ugly head.

I just figured that a video would help answer anything I may be not describing just the right way or not capturing in a picture. You gotta love youtube.

mkztg

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

I'm leaning now towards the PCM too.
Maybe someone can chime in and throw-out another idea for him.... because I'm running out of them.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

OK

mkztg

PCM malfunction meaning... I need to get the car flashed?

The German Mazda dealership here turns up their nose at me when I tell them its US spec and not European spec.. But if thats what you think could fix it I will do what I have to do.

mkztg

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

I guess a reflash couldn't hurt... but we were talking about the actual computer itself (what the flash is saved to).

mkztg

Holy ****... where could even get one of those???

this sucks.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

Unless someone can think of a better idea, maybe try a reflash.
Maybe something got corrupted in the PCM (I'm reaching now).

Vyndictive

iTrader: (28)

That is what I was thinking... just some sort of short in the PCM.

I don't know what a new PCM costs, maybe the dealership could swap yours out and see if that helps... (I don't know if you can do that with the US spec and Euro Specs) Or see if one of the vendors could help you out.

mkztg

I went out to the car and unscrewed the cover for the PCM (far left front cover in the engine bay - right?) I made sure all of the wire harnesses were seated good. I couldn't really lift it up very easy - lots of wire harnessess wiretied to the top of the cover (coolant overflow etc)

I put every thing back together. The started up without the DSC/TCS light but still had the CEL from before. I cleared the CEL, turned off the car and everything went back to the fault again. DSC/TCS light on and CEL back on.

I pulled a read off the car again with the faults showing and here is the "Live Data" information. I don't know if it helps or not but here it is:

Fuel System 1: Closed loop
Fuel System 2: N/A
Load Value: 25.7%
Coolant Temp: 141 F
STFT - Bank 1: -9.3%
LTFT - Bank 1: 3.1%
Engine RPM: 2473 RPM (I was not pressing the gas when taking the reading)
Vehicle Speed: 0 MPH
Ignition Advance: -5.0 deg
Intake Air Temp: 51 F
MAF Air Flow Rate: 1.8 lb/min
Throttle Position: 15.6% (within the range specified in the shop manual)
Bank1 - Sensor2: O2S Output 0.830V
Bank1 - Sensor2: STFT 0.0%

mkztg

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

I'm no expert on engine tuning or percentages... but isn't the STFT a little much?

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

Looking through the shop manual, it says the O2 sensor should read 0.5 - 0.7V while maintaining an engine speed of 3K RPM.
That large negative STFT is making me thing air pump or O2 sensor.
But I don't want to send you all over your car chasing everything if I'm not sure.
Again, when it comes to engine values vs loads, I'm no expert.

mkztg

Here is a side by side comparison of the "Live Data" readings I am getting

FAULT-----------------------------------------Started with no fault after clearing CEL
Fuel System 1: Closed loop---------------------------------NC (No Change)
Fuel System 2: N/A ------------------------------------------NC
Load Value: 25.7% --------------------------------------- 28.8%
Coolant Temp: 141 F -------------------------------------- 136 F
STFT - Bank 1: -9.3% --------------------------------------: -5.4%
LTFT - Bank 1: 3.1% -------------------------------------- 3.9%
Engine RPM: 2473 RPM ------------------------------------ 960 RPM
Vehicle Speed: 0 MPH --------------------------------------- NC
Ignition Advance: -5.0 deg ---------------------------------: -3.5 deg
Intake Air Temp: 51 F ---------------------------------------- 66 F
MAF Air Flow Rate: 1.8 lb/min -------------------------------: .5 lb/min
Throttle Position: 15.6% -------------------------------------- 12.4%
Bank1 - Sensor2: O2S Output 0.830V ----------------------- 0.925V
Bank1 - Sensor2: STFT 0.0% --------------------------------- 0.0%

Again - Just in case anyone can make a determintion from this info.

mkztg

mkztg

I was talking with some friends at work today about the craziness with the car.. One suggested that the wires may have been eaten by the little animals that eat car wires here in Germany.

Ok - I have heard of these animals but thought it was a joke. Apparantly it isn't a joke. One guy said his truck's wires were eaten pretty bad not long ago.

I had to look them up: http://www.toytowngermany.com/lofi/i...hp/t65198.html

I know I am reaching at straws again but maybe one of these little buggers nibbled on a wire somewhere and its shorting out... If so - I have to track it down.

I may have to break down and take it back to the Mazda place here and see if they can figure it out - that is if they will take the time to talk to me and 'lower themselves' to work on a US Spec RX8. (yes they were ******** when I went there last time but they are the only one I know of within 150 km).

mkztg

Vyndictive

iTrader: (28)

So... something like this?