Renesis OIL PRESSURE Discussion with Dealer Tech
10-29-2009, 01:33 PM
#451
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Most good quality ones should be, I personally stick to genuine or Mazda Approved, I am still under warranty...For S2's you can only buy Genuine, and IMO that will stay that way for a while..
BTW... Off Topic slightly, I have noticed Mazda's New SKY banger engines have a larger looking Oil Filter...which is a Good Move IMO, I really don't like these WEENY SMALL Filters used over the past 20 years, gee the Original Spin off Rotary Filter 0813-23-802 was 4-5 times larger than the S1 RX-8's...
There you are I pulled that number out of my head, that is how much a Parts Guy NEVER Forgets Part Numbers.
That filter went to a 1978 626 one...8173-23-802 about half that size, and that now supersedes to the JEY0-14-3029A, so if you want a larger filter than the Original S1 RX-8 use the JEY0 one, it will fit and filter MORE....TRUST ME...
BTW... Off Topic slightly, I have noticed Mazda's New SKY banger engines have a larger looking Oil Filter...which is a Good Move IMO, I really don't like these WEENY SMALL Filters used over the past 20 years, gee the Original Spin off Rotary Filter 0813-23-802 was 4-5 times larger than the S1 RX-8's...
There you are I pulled that number out of my head, that is how much a Parts Guy NEVER Forgets Part Numbers.
That filter went to a 1978 626 one...8173-23-802 about half that size, and that now supersedes to the JEY0-14-3029A, so if you want a larger filter than the Original S1 RX-8 use the JEY0 one, it will fit and filter MORE....TRUST ME...
Last edited by ASH8; 10-29-2009 at 01:35 PM.
10-29-2009, 02:30 PM
#452
I had to go back to page 13 to see the data again:
Is it suggesting that the front valve in an S1 is relieving at a lower figure than the rear? That would be an error in print I would think. The front is not really supposed to get activated practically ever; it's like an emergency valve. If it were lower than the rear, we wouldn't achieve the pressure to the rear.
My Service Highlights Book says the rear regulator relieves from 78-92.5 psi or more.
Can we safely say that we who are running guages are not seeing strange low figures? I would imagine that most are close to the ratings for 3k rpm.
Paul.
Is it suggesting that the front valve in an S1 is relieving at a lower figure than the rear? That would be an error in print I would think. The front is not really supposed to get activated practically ever; it's like an emergency valve. If it were lower than the rear, we wouldn't achieve the pressure to the rear.
My Service Highlights Book says the rear regulator relieves from 78-92.5 psi or more.
Can we safely say that we who are running guages are not seeing strange low figures? I would imagine that most are close to the ratings for 3k rpm.
Paul.
10-29-2009, 02:47 PM
#453
Admiral of Awesome
The mod on the rear bypass and front bypass is not hard to do if you have been working on cars some. Make SURE you keep things as clean as you possibily can. Drop the pan, remove the rear and front regulators/bypass, do the crush with a hydrolic press, or have a machine shop do it--or buy a new one (93-95) from MazdaTrix for $31, then add 2 shims --total 1/8 inch to the front bypass, then use the 09 filter(for its own increased bypass pressure) or something like a Fram hp2-6. Hell--even a Pure One Purolater has a filter that will fit and is twice as big as the oem although I am not sure of its bypass pressure.
Reinstall (careful with the pan bolts) CLEANLY and refill with a diesel oil or whatever you want to do and thats it.
Should take maybe 2 hrs?
OD
Reinstall (careful with the pan bolts) CLEANLY and refill with a diesel oil or whatever you want to do and thats it.
Should take maybe 2 hrs?
OD
10-29-2009, 04:58 PM
#455
10-29-2009, 05:07 PM
#456
Lubricious
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: SF Bay Area, California
Posts: 3,425
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
What I meant by bypass filter are the ones Ive seen that divert a small percentage of the oil through an extremely fine auxiliary filter. I think AMSOIL is one of the ones that push this sort of thing. Always seemed like snake-oil to me but maybe it makes sense with our cars that never get a clean oil change.
10-29-2009, 06:23 PM
#457
Registered
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 863
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Regarding the oil left in the system after an oil change - that's another reason why I'm possibly not seeing any of the bearing damage other people are reporting - the oil cooler and lines on our car are above the engine, so every time the oil is changed, it's a near total swap for fresh.
10-29-2009, 09:44 PM
#458
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
94-96 323 Astina BA Model
87-92 626 GD,GE,GV
89-97 929 HC,HD,HE
89-02 B2000,2200,2500,2600 UF,UN
86 E1800,2000,2200 SS,SD,SR
91-91 Eunos/Mazda 30X, MX-3,500,800 EC,CA,TA
93-95 MPV LV
96-20 Xedos-9 TA
10-29-2009, 09:50 PM
#459
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
I still consider there is an Oil Pressure Issue with the Series 1 RENESIS as the Series 2 RENESIS has almost 22 PSI Higher at 3000 RPM and at 100c (212F).
If OP was not an issue then why the higher Engine Oil Pressure...
As I said IMO the S1 could easily manage another 20 PSI.
If OP was not an issue then why the higher Engine Oil Pressure...
As I said IMO the S1 could easily manage another 20 PSI.
10-29-2009, 10:12 PM
#460
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Regarding the oil left in the system after an oil change - that's another reason why I'm possibly not seeing any of the bearing damage other people are reporting - the oil cooler and lines on our car are above the engine, so every time the oil is changed, it's a near total swap for fresh.
See Factory Specs..Series 2 in RED, 1 in Blue
So in my case it is leaving behind around 3 Litres of Old OIL, when compared to a totally dry engine (holds 7 litres), so when I look at the 5.6 litres of Oil Used in an engine overhaul there is still 1.4 litres left behind in the Coolers and Lines.
10-30-2009, 04:04 AM
#462
Ayrton Senna Forever
I had to go back to page 13 to see the data again:
Is it suggesting that the front valve in an S1 is relieving at a lower figure than the rear? That would be an error in print I would think. The front is not really supposed to get activated practically ever; it's like an emergency valve. If it were lower than the rear, we wouldn't achieve the pressure to the rear.
My Service Highlights Book says the rear regulator relieves from 78-92.5 psi or more.
Can we safely say that we who are running guages are not seeing strange low figures? I would imagine that most are close to the ratings for 3k rpm.
Paul.
Is it suggesting that the front valve in an S1 is relieving at a lower figure than the rear? That would be an error in print I would think. The front is not really supposed to get activated practically ever; it's like an emergency valve. If it were lower than the rear, we wouldn't achieve the pressure to the rear.
My Service Highlights Book says the rear regulator relieves from 78-92.5 psi or more.
Can we safely say that we who are running guages are not seeing strange low figures? I would imagine that most are close to the ratings for 3k rpm.
Paul.
I absolutely don't understand why the first valve has a lower opening pressure data in the system. It means, that the second valve (rear regulator) has not got too much part in the S1 system.
Last edited by ayrton012; 10-30-2009 at 04:10 AM.
10-30-2009, 09:03 AM
#463
well dang. Do both--lol
i get more oil out during a change when I use a suction cannister and let it work for a while. I usually get 5 quarts out . Were as on drain per oil plug i only get approx 4. I do not do the jacking.
Oil pressure gauge has arrived and will be installed this w/e.
I will record my findings (using diesel oil) and share and then at some point, as I have a REALLY big track event the following w/e, I will do this mod and record my findings and share.
I have heard that the Fram hp 6 filter will fit ,its much bigger, filters to 12 microns and and has a bypass of 22psi. I am currently running moble 1's that is slightly bigger.
Paul---I will call 1st!!!
OD
i get more oil out during a change when I use a suction cannister and let it work for a while. I usually get 5 quarts out . Were as on drain per oil plug i only get approx 4. I do not do the jacking.
Oil pressure gauge has arrived and will be installed this w/e.
I will record my findings (using diesel oil) and share and then at some point, as I have a REALLY big track event the following w/e, I will do this mod and record my findings and share.
I have heard that the Fram hp 6 filter will fit ,its much bigger, filters to 12 microns and and has a bypass of 22psi. I am currently running moble 1's that is slightly bigger.
Paul---I will call 1st!!!
OD
10-30-2009, 09:09 AM
#464
well dang. Do both--lol
i get more oil out during a change when I use a suction cannister and let it work for a while. I usually get 5 quarts out . Were as on drain per oil plug i only get approx 4. I do not do the jacking.
Oil pressure gauge has arrived and will be installed this w/e.
I will record my findings (using diesel oil) and share and then at some point, as I have a REALLY big track event the following w/e, I will do this mod and record my findings and share.
I have heard that the Fram hp 6 filter will fit ,its much bigger, filters to 12 microns and and has a bypass of 22psi. I am currently running moble 1's that is slightly bigger.
Paul---I will call 1st!!!
OD
i get more oil out during a change when I use a suction cannister and let it work for a while. I usually get 5 quarts out . Were as on drain per oil plug i only get approx 4. I do not do the jacking.
Oil pressure gauge has arrived and will be installed this w/e.
I will record my findings (using diesel oil) and share and then at some point, as I have a REALLY big track event the following w/e, I will do this mod and record my findings and share.
I have heard that the Fram hp 6 filter will fit ,its much bigger, filters to 12 microns and and has a bypass of 22psi. I am currently running moble 1's that is slightly bigger.
Paul---I will call 1st!!!
OD
10-30-2009, 10:34 AM
#466
Registered
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 863
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
10-30-2009, 11:15 AM
#467
The suggestion that the front valve had a lower setting than the rear got thrown out by Mr Engman. He said there would be a wear pattern visible from it's movement. It's obvious that they never move, even in 04-08 Renesis.
Paul.
Paul.
10-30-2009, 11:34 AM
#468
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: michigan
Posts: 239
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Am I missing something? If oil is getting bypassed, then it is going back into the pan (unfiltered, but so what?).When it gets picked up again, any oil that finds it's way into the engine must go through the filter first. So it shouldn't matter if bypassed oil isn't getting filtered because it's not getting used for lubrication/cooling. What's the prob, Bob?
10-30-2009, 12:53 PM
#469
i'm the undead
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Frankly I am still jacked off as to why Mazda released the RX-8 in the first place with both Oil and Water cooling inadequacies, and the lubrication of Apex Seal issue....
YET AGAIN Mazda will pay a very expensive price for this engineering failure as there are many RX-8 owners who love the car but hate the engine failures, the Rotary Engines reputation takes yet another dive when it could have been prevented.
I totally blame Ford's ownership and influence at the time, it is obvious the RX-8 did not have enough Hot weather and longevity testing...before final production.
YET AGAIN Mazda will pay a very expensive price for this engineering failure as there are many RX-8 owners who love the car but hate the engine failures, the Rotary Engines reputation takes yet another dive when it could have been prevented.
I totally blame Ford's ownership and influence at the time, it is obvious the RX-8 did not have enough Hot weather and longevity testing...before final production.
now, i'll go back to reading ...
10-30-2009, 02:30 PM
#470
i'm the undead
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
and I just love seeing people who cry out loud all the time about "omg Mazda recommend you to use #####,"
but the next minute he/she took his car to the local Auto shop to do whatever it needs to be done.
for some reason he/she can see the part he likes in the manual, but then he/she totally misses out the part that Mazda recommend all work to be perform @ a Mazda dealer.
Funny
but the next minute he/she took his car to the local Auto shop to do whatever it needs to be done.
for some reason he/she can see the part he likes in the manual, but then he/she totally misses out the part that Mazda recommend all work to be perform @ a Mazda dealer.
Funny
10-30-2009, 03:23 PM
#471
i'm the undead
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is obvious Mazda F**Ked up big time with these few critical issues, WHY, to add extra oil coolers, extra and longer supply/return lines and position them further from the oil pump without an increase in Oil Pressure is Bloody Madness.
Plus you have an engine (RENESIS) that REVS Higher than any other engine sold before with the same oil pressure as an FC RX-7 of 24 years ago.
What the hell was wrong with their engineers, why did they not see this?? to me it is a no brainer.
Plus you have an engine (RENESIS) that REVS Higher than any other engine sold before with the same oil pressure as an FC RX-7 of 24 years ago.
What the hell was wrong with their engineers, why did they not see this?? to me it is a no brainer.
this is how i thought about it, until i thought of Ford's involvement. now, i have no basis for this, but my thought is that the engineers will have to make concessions to the nickel-and-diming pigs that count the pennies for the final product. not counting extreme situations, clearly our cars will survive a few years before you realized you've been hosed. by then, you've already bought it and they made some money ...
to them short term profits are better than the long-term marred reputation - especially since it's not really their reputation. make the Japanese brand look no better than the American ... means even more profit. win-win situation. it's the way i see it ...
10-30-2009, 04:18 PM
#472
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
page 11 - yea!
this is how i thought about it, until i thought of Ford's involvement. now, i have no basis for this, but my thought is that the engineers will have to make concessions to the nickel-and-diming pigs that count the pennies for the final product. not counting extreme situations, clearly our cars will survive a few years before you realized you've been hosed. by then, you've already bought it and they made some money ...
to them short term profits are better than the long-term marred reputation - especially since it's not really their reputation. make the Japanese brand look no better than the American ... means even more profit. win-win situation. it's the way i see it ...
this is how i thought about it, until i thought of Ford's involvement. now, i have no basis for this, but my thought is that the engineers will have to make concessions to the nickel-and-diming pigs that count the pennies for the final product. not counting extreme situations, clearly our cars will survive a few years before you realized you've been hosed. by then, you've already bought it and they made some money ...
to them short term profits are better than the long-term marred reputation - especially since it's not really their reputation. make the Japanese brand look no better than the American ... means even more profit. win-win situation. it's the way i see it ...
Unfortunately, THE issue is Mazda are not rectifying the Problem(s), so even the replacement or re-man engines are going to go the same way.
Having worked for the Brand I can assure you Mazda does care about it's Brand or image, it is/was the Ford influence.
I am almost CERTAIN we are not Going to see the 16X because Mazda are waiting to see how these 09's go out in the field, if similar issue happen again..it will be the END.
I am reasonably confidant they have done the work on 09's, apart from Carbon which has been an issue for over 40 years....just like the Top of a Piston/banger engine, they all get it except the rotor gets it on all sides.
This is why "hydrogen" will be good for the rotary...NO Carbon, No sticking seals..
10-30-2009, 05:21 PM
#474
It's not supposed to. It's got a setting designed to protect parts if there was a problem like a clogged filter or something else that could be catastrophic.
Under some really adverse condition , it would relieve; like a fuse protecting expensive electrical components.
Paul.
Under some really adverse condition , it would relieve; like a fuse protecting expensive electrical components.
Paul.
10-30-2009, 05:28 PM
#475
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Probably why I never sold any Piston/Plungers or springs for the Front relief valve, as they hardly ever worked/moved....nor the rear by pass components for that matter.
The spring and plunger (Rear) are the same used for the early banger engines used in Mazda oil pumps, 0221-14-115 and 0221-14-116, sold quite a few of those.
The spring and plunger (Rear) are the same used for the early banger engines used in Mazda oil pumps, 0221-14-115 and 0221-14-116, sold quite a few of those.