Yes this is the best thread in a long time.

 

Anybody try the Redline 2 stroke/cycle oils?

http://www.redlineoil.com/products_m...3&categoryID=3

Seems like this development about the latest rotary engine, means a really good premix or gas additive is needed for the present engine.

However I think something that lubes and cleans carbon deposits would be the best, as oppose to just doing one or the other.

I know it sounds a bit crazy, but I was thinking of mixing Redline 2 stroke racing oil with Redline SI-1 Complete Fuel System Cleaner, to get the "right effect" of cleaning and lubrication.

 

SOme observations from various posts here. On the track I see a noticable difference in the performance of my car depending on the level of oil in the sump. full its like a dream. 3/4 or less and its noticably worse. My car has since day one been one of the cars that uses very little oil. Not none, but I would be lucky if I had to fill up half a dipstick in 10,000k (hard to tell as I often track at least twice in between).

Unrelated to this thread but i'll mention it anyway, I have noticed my car is very different to most others in that when my car is hot, when I turn the car off, the fan stops, but if I turn the key to accessories, the fan starts again. Everyone else I know of, the fan continues to run.

On the topic of premixing, I haven't read to much into the fuel filter issues other than to know that people are having them. But I wonder if they are linked to people using motor oil instead of 2 stroke oil?

My car is in getting turbo fitted atm and based on this I think I will be premixing until further notice. However based on a previous comment, when the fuel filter starts to get clogged, would an A/FR guage be a good identifier of this?

Cheers

Andrew

 

now we just got to sit and wait for the NEW RX8 owners to drive there new RX8's and see if they come here with engine problems LOL~

... thats what you call a Great Synopsis.
very interesting..

 

And I would agree 100%, however there are only a certain number of guages I can have (without looking stupid) and an AFR was already on the cards. Going by an earlier comment by mysql101 I figured I could just pay more attention to this at high rpm.
Cheers
Andrew

 

I could be a little out of my league here, but I was lead to believe that the inconsistant mileage and power is due to a seal clearance issue rather than the OMP. The seals are not all clearanced the same on each motor...no doubt if they were we would still be waiting for our RX8's....

Despite the seals not seeing center lubrication, the rotor housing surface provides very minimal friction.

Awaiting flames....

 

Redline SI-1 is a very good Poly Ethyl Amine (PEA)-based cleaner like Techron and Gummout Regane, so it cleans very well with the added benefit of some lubricity included.

On using the RL 2-cycle - they make excellent 2-cycles (like everything else), but most are made for motorcycles, boats, snomobiles that do NOT have cats and RL loves to use lots and lots of ZDDP in their 2-cycles. This high ZDDP levels provides great wear protection , but WILL kill you cat pretty quickly.

Before I would consider any RL 2-cycle, I would contact them to see if any of their 2-cycles are considered cat-safe as all of the ones I have seen oil analysis performed on are not.

 

I agree with SQL in that FP Plus is an UCL and does provide good lubricity, but not as much as a 2-cycle oils on an ounce for ounce basis.

FP Plus would be a perfectly fine "Premix", but will only buy you so much additional lubricity. It is also very thin and miscible, so there are no worries on fuel pump clogging. But, when you get the dosages above 1oz/5 gallons, you risk getting the solvency too high and eating into your oil films lubricating the rotor seals. Engine will run great, but may cause undue wear on rotor seals with too much FP Plus as it would clean off the oil films from the OMP/premix oils. (I specifically e-mailed Lube Control on this issue as I was considering this as well in my and they did not recommend going over the amounts I stated above)

SQL - I would not run 4oz to a 12 gallon refill for FP Plus - for FP60, this would be fine, but not FP Plus as it is much more concentrated. I would stick with 2oz for a 12 gallon refill and add 2 more oz of your preferred 2-cycle if you are looking for additional lubricity. The FP Plus will thin the 2-cycle considerably and help it's miscibility with the gas if you are concerned with fuel pump clogging.

Also, MMO is an option for additional lubricity as you do not have the "overdosing" issue like you can with FP Plus. For that matter, you could use FP Plus 2 oz/tank and supplement with as much MMO as you like (up to max) for someone wanting more lubrication but being concerned with fuel pump clogging as as both are very thin and miscibles oils. MMO is pretty much compatible with everything from an oil mixing standpoint.

Food for thought.

 

I thought we had solved the fuel pump clogging issue and put it down to mixing UCL with 2 stroke . Every time I hear pump clogging mentioned it is when people are mixing these two

Great post RG BTW - you have obviously thought about this deeply .

 

thanks Easy E

 

on another issue since we have a pic- is this CAT bigger?

 

Looks like the oil pan design could cause problems with the Greddy Turbo kit. I don't know if the manifold and turbo will fit with that configuration...

 

They won't.
That will require a complete re-design of the system.
Thanks, Mazda.

 

Is that sarcasm or genuine gratitude?

 

Well, since I have one of the RENESIS motors which seems to have low oil use, I thought I'd chime in.

85% freeway driving, 75-78 mph into LA, 65 mph or so around LA on the freeways, when not congested to a standstill, of course.
Fuel economy with premix, zero observed change in mileage.

The ONLY two factors I've noticed in fuel economy on my RX-8 is:
1. driving at 72 mph in 6th gear across the desert to LA and
2. doing so on 87 octane fuel

MPG on my stretch of freeway can vary from 18 to 22, depending on the wind, speed, and octane. 87 octane, at 72 MPH, with the cruise control on, can net 22 MPG. Light winds will knock that down into the 21 MPG range. 91 octane will net 19 MPG in the same conditions, consistently. This is not to say that 87 octane makes more power, just that it burns well in the 3400 RPM range in the RENESIS. Around town I can see 11 to 18 MPG, but here the 91 octane seems to outperform the 87 octane, staying between 15 and 17 MPG, where the 87 octane is typically lower. Worst measurements were with 91 octane on Willow Springs, and at a Gymkhana USA event, at 7 MPG and 9 MPG respectively!

Pre-mix made no difference.

This was all done on a 2006 RX-8 with less than 16,000 miles though, and the latest OMP flash. Perhaps pre-mix would help more as the apex seals and housings wear slightly?

As far as OMP metering goes. I don't think I've used 6 full quarts in 20k! That would be somewhere around one quart per oil change, around every 3500 miles or so. if my OMP is NOT adding enough oil, well that's Mazda's tough luck because they'll be buying the engine up to 60,000 miles.

Before someone says "Well, your driving must be changing constantly.", I'll have you know that in my wife's 2007 Nissan Quest 3.5 liter minivan, I can consistently do 23.8-24.5 MPG on 87 octane! At 75 miles per hour! With two adults, one small child, two small dogs, and suitcases on board!

 

Sarcasm. The new motor will require an entirely different turbo system.
That will be a headache for me, at least.

Ditch the wife, dogs and children and the experience will be much more satisfying.
Ditch the minivan while you are at it!

 

sounds like it might be a good thing if you still have your OMP functioning.... reduce carbon build-up, keep the injectors clean, and suppliment the lubrication of the seals?

 

Very true!! - but my point was you can only obtain a certain amount of additional lubricity before you max out how much FP Plus you should use (1 oz/5 gallons, which is twice the standard dosage). If you are happy with that amount of lubricity on top of the normal OMP oil feed, great - you are ready to go.

But, if you are seeking even more lubricity, then you should accomplish this with 2-cycle or MMO mixed with FP Plus and not by just using more FP Plus as the solvency will get too high. While 2-cycles and MMO do have cleaners as well, they are much milder in general as these are lubricants first with a some cleaning benefits added and thus will not hurt your overall lubricity as you increase the amounts.

Hope this is clearer.

 

I don't get this clogging the fuel pump crap...

I have used pre-mix in rotaries for 20 years and never had a clogged fuel pump.

My own '8 has had pre-mix since almost day one.

Are people using something else than a TCW3 rated two stroke/pre-mix? Because with a good TCW3 rated pre-mix you should never run into a clogged fuel pump or filter even at as high of a ratio as 50/1.

I can only assume that people with this clogged fuel pump crap are either not using a emissions compatible TCW3 oil or a using it at ratios above 25/1 (which would probably **** your octane up pretty bad anyway) or it is some pre-mix bashing BS.

 

https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...8&d=1177052702

from this thread

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-aftermarket-performance-modifications-23/hold-pre_mixing_surprise-find-108224/

and this thread

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-aftermarket-performance-modifications-23/interest-fix-fuel-starvation-issues-105156/page8/

 

I have the same situation. I've had the dealer check it out and they say the fans are working correctly, but that doesn't really put me at ease. I'm still concerned about the temps. getting too high. I just allow for an extended cool down period after spirited driving when it's hot outside.

I've never encountered any other mention of this issue on the forum

 

Is there even any evidence of accelerated apex seal wear on our engines? Yes there have been motors replaced due to low compression - but that doesn't mean its apex seal wear and we never find out the real reason for the low compression. Carbon build-up is more likely the culprit on many of them.

About the only engine i've heard of ripped down and measured has been GRH's and his seal measurements were fine if i remember correctly

 

yes - but all those problems were from whem people mixed UCL with premix .....

 

I have a feeling that the reason why our fuel pump crap so fast simply because .... its crap to being with.

My pump start showing issues too. Im getting misfires at High rpm for extended periods of time, or maybe Engine dying who knows. but only happens when I have low gas in tank (less than 1/2)

Never have a problem if its full tank.

Man, Im gonna change the crap out on my next Vacation (probably due in March)

 

r0tor tore your engine down?

Since I didn't get the rotor housings, I couldn't measure them for wear. It would have been interesting to check the wear across the face of the housings to see if the center had greater wear or not.